Computer Purchase In Your Future?

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This post has 17 Replies | 4 Followers

Posts 3845
Floyd Johnson | Forum Activity | Posted: Sat, Feb 19 2011 2:35 PM

If you are looking for a decently priced multi-core computer to support Logos, you might want to look at this offer from TigerDirect:

Gateway DX4320-02e Refurbished Desktop PC - AMD Phenom II X4 Quad-Core 820 2.8GHz, 6GB DDR3, 640GB HDD, DVDRW, Windows 7 Home Premium 64-bit

Since I make no money off of this and since TigerDirect, as best I know, does not compete with LOGOS - it does not seem to violate forum guidelines.  This is a refurbished machine with a limited warranty - though a replacement warranty can be purchased.  

 

Blessings,
Floyd

Pastor-Patrick.blogspot.com

Posts 15805
Forum MVP
Keep Smiling 4 Jesus :) | Forum Activity | Replied: Sat, Feb 19 2011 10:13 PM

Disclaimer: personally no economic benefit - sharing information about hardware for using Logos 4 Mac and PC.

Like Logos, Apple offers academic pricing along with refurbished computers (same warranty as new):

http://store.apple.com/us/browse/home/specialdeals/mac

Microcenter sells both Mac and PC => http://www.microcenter.com (some instant discounts in store, e.g. $ 200 off on selected MacBook Pro models)

Fry's also sells both Mac and PC => http://www.frys.com/

Observation: if rumors credible, then Apple refreshing MacBook Pro with new Intel sandy bridge processors soon (as in next week).

Tom's Hardware Guide offers PC system builder guides with performance testing => http://www.tomshardware.com/theme-build-your-own,156.html

Newegg offers daily hardware deals and do it yourself bundles => http://www.newegg.com/Index.aspx

Years ago, Tiger Direct bought CompUSA's web site and some stores => http://www.compusa.com/

Keep Smiling Smile

 

 

Posts 3845
Floyd Johnson | Forum Activity | Replied: Sat, Feb 19 2011 10:19 PM

Keep Smiling 4 Jesus :):
Years ago, Tiger Direct bought CompUSA's web site and some stores => http://www.compusa.com/

Similarly - they purchased Circuit City:  Circuit City

Blessings,
Floyd

Pastor-Patrick.blogspot.com

Posts 33
Jeff Causey | Forum Activity | Replied: Sun, Feb 20 2011 6:43 AM

I happened to pop in to an Apple store on Friday just to check out some laptops.  Main thing I was looking for was a comparison of the 13" vs 15" screens on MBP.  From what I saw, I think the 13" would be sufficient for how I use a laptop.  I did think the MBPs were heavier than I was expecting.  I also looked at an Air and was impressed with that.  Not sure how well it work for me though with no internal DVD (that I could see).  Still not sure I'll be able to justify the cost difference from a PC.

Posts 762
Patrick S. | Forum Activity | Replied: Sun, Feb 20 2011 9:55 AM

Jeff Causey:

I happened to pop in to an Apple store on Friday just to check out some laptops.  Main thing I was looking for was a comparison of the 13" vs 15" screens on MBP.  From what I saw, I think the 13" would be sufficient for how I use a laptop.  I did think the MBPs were heavier than I was expecting.  I also looked at an Air and was impressed with that.  Not sure how well it work for me though with no internal DVD (that I could see).  Still not sure I'll be able to justify the cost difference from a PC.

It depends on what your criteria are:

  • Do you want a quality hardware machine? Don't think there are really any/many Windows machines manufactured by the usual suspects which compare with MacBooks. They all try to copy Apple but they always fall short.
  • Do you want a quality user experience = OS + hardware? Windows comes nowhere near the Apple user experience. OS X is better than Windows, the quality and innovation of Apple hardware eclipses Windows based notebooks.
  • Do you want the best (real) value with best resale point? = Macs.
  • Do you want the lowest cost (as in initial outlay) machine? = Some Windows box.

If anyone was not not totally locked into Windows they should consider the value of a Mac.

"I want to know all God's thoughts; the rest are just details." - Albert Einstein

Posts 9947
George Somsel | Forum Activity | Replied: Sun, Feb 20 2011 10:36 AM

Patrick S.:

If anyone was not not totally locked into Windows they should consider the value of a Mac.

Personally, I wouldn't touch a MAC with a ten foot pole -- or maybe I would (give it a good whack).

george
gfsomsel

יְמֵי־שְׁנוֹתֵינוּ בָהֶם שִׁבְעִים שָׁנָה וְאִם בִּגְבוּרֹת שְׁמוֹנִים שָׁנָה וְרָהְבָּם עָמָל וָאָוֶן

Posts 9527
Forum MVP
Mark Smith | Forum Activity | Replied: Sun, Feb 20 2011 11:03 AM

George Somsel:
Personally, I wouldn't touch a MAC with a ten foot pole -- or maybe I would (give it a good whack).

Which reputedly is the same distance George keeps from Interlinears, Reverse or otherwise. (His ten-foot pole comes in handy.)

Pastor, North Park Baptist Church

Bridgeport, CT USA

Posts 33
Jeff Causey | Forum Activity | Replied: Sun, Feb 20 2011 6:45 PM

Patrick S.:

It depends on what your criteria are:

  • Do you want a quality hardware machine? Don't think there are really any/many Windows machines manufactured by the usual suspects which compare with MacBooks. They all try to copy Apple but they always fall short.
  • Do you want a quality user experience = OS + hardware? Windows comes nowhere near the Apple user experience. OS X is better than Windows, the quality and innovation of Apple hardware eclipses Windows based notebooks.
  • Do you want the best (real) value with best resale point? = Macs.
  • Do you want the lowest cost (as in initial outlay) machine? = Some Windows box.

If anyone was not not totally locked into Windows they should consider the value of a Mac.

I'm only looking at Apple products for three things:

1. I think they have a nice form factor and clean design compared most PCs

2. I'd like to have a copy of the OSX operating system available for dabbling

3. I would probably use it mostly for graphics/media stuff.  I just haven't been impressed with what's available in the MS world and while the Linux stuff is probably more powerful, it tends to be beyond the learning curve I'm willing to endure.

Resale value is a non-issue for me as I tend to keep my hardware until it dies or is so old that it has no residual value worth noting.

At this point, all I really need a Windows install for is Logos, MapSource and my annual tax return.  I'm pretty sure Mac versions of all of those are available.  Most of my time will be spent in Linux.  In the past (and like my laptop I have now) I would setup a dual-boot and I'd probably consider a triple-boot if I bought some Apple hardware.  I'm kind of leaning toward getting something powerful enough to run VMs for second/third OS installs.

 

Posts 15805
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Keep Smiling 4 Jesus :) | Forum Activity | Replied: Mon, Feb 21 2011 12:24 AM

Jeff Causey:
At this point, all I really need a Windows install for is Logos, MapSource and my annual tax return.  I'm pretty sure Mac versions of all of those are available.  Most of my time will be spent in Linux.  In the past (and like my laptop I have now) I would setup a dual-boot and I'd probably consider a triple-boot if I bought some Apple hardware.  I'm kind of leaning toward getting something powerful enough to run VMs for second/third OS installs.

Wiki has Logos 4 Mac overview => http://wiki.logos.com/Logos_4_Mac that includes virtualization tips.  For virtualization, know RAM needed.  Also, Mac OS X includes many open source projects => http://developer.apple.com/opensource/

Jeff Causey:

I happened to pop in to an Apple store on Friday just to check out some laptops.  Main thing I was looking for was a comparison of the 13" vs 15" screens on MBP.  From what I saw, I think the 13" would be sufficient for how I use a laptop.  I did think the MBPs were heavier than I was expecting.  I also looked at an Air and was impressed with that.  Not sure how well it work for me though with no internal DVD (that I could see).  Still not sure I'll be able to justify the cost difference from a PC.

Web site repair guide shows MacBook Air => http://www.ifixit.com/Device/MacBook_Air_13%22_Model_A1369 - noticed RAM surface mounted on motherboard.

Keep Smiling Smile

Posts 699
Frank Sauer | Forum Activity | Replied: Mon, Feb 21 2011 9:56 AM

Just a little PC user advice here... ;)

As much as I love Mac Users, in all their loyalty and comparison of how great a machine a Mac is in comparison to a PC... The one thing they never do is compare "Apples to Apples".

All my Mac User friends always want to compare their $1200 - $2000 MacBook to a PC Laptop. What they forget is most of the time on a direct hardware comparison the PC is quite cheaper. Also for the record the competitor in me has had fun with some Mac friends that swore my $600 PC Laptop would never be as fast or compare to their Mac... Much to their surprise once you wipe the PC and install just Windows and programs you use removing all the "bloatware" it is like night and day.

So when anyone compares the two trying to decide on what to purchase compare a $1800 Mac with a $1800 PC you'll be surprised at the advantage the PC can have.

Posts 4508
Robert Pavich | Forum Activity | Replied: Mon, Feb 21 2011 10:21 AM

Mark A. Smith:
Which reputedly is the same distance George keeps from Interlinears, Reverse or otherwise. (His ten-foot pole comes in handy.)

 

Very very funny. Big Smile

Robert Pavich

For help go to the Wiki: http://wiki.logos.com/Table_of_Contents__

Posts 4508
Robert Pavich | Forum Activity | Replied: Mon, Feb 21 2011 10:25 AM

Frank Sauer:
So when anyone compares the two trying to decide on what to purchase compare a $1800 Mac with a $1800 PC you'll be surprised at the advantage the PC can have.

This has been my experience.

If you go to Dell and do the "customize my laptop" and use the mac specs...you end up with a machine that's very very nice....for about half the cash.

And contrary to what others have said....I've had VERY few real problems with my Win-boxes....I don't use anti virus, I don't use a firewall...and I'm on the net every day.....

I DO however....uninstall the "free-bloatware" that comes standard with PC's these days....

 

Now....having said all that...money being no object....IF I was independently wealthy....I'd have me the most screaming mac money could buy...because they have something that windows doesn't have....

 

The "cool" factor...and a better looking Logos experience.....

Robert Pavich

For help go to the Wiki: http://wiki.logos.com/Table_of_Contents__

Posts 762
Patrick S. | Forum Activity | Replied: Mon, Feb 21 2011 2:30 PM

Frank Sauer:

Just a little PC user advice here... ;)

Ahhh — but I'm like the reformed smoker bugging people to quit... I have used, and do use (at work no choice), Windows since Windows 1.0 (as well as Linux command line and desktop) and Windows has never been, and decreasingly likely to be, anywhere near as good as (now) Mac OS X. 

 

Frank Sauer:

What they forget is most of the time on a direct hardware comparison the PC is quite cheaper.

Never said that PCs were not cheaper — yep, it would be a fair statement to say that pretty well most PCs are cheap. The problem for all PC manufacturers is that they are stuck in the economics of being driven down to the lowest quality common denominator, operating on razor thin margins. Why should they put quality into their products, the guy next to them has got exactly the same OS and will shaft them at a moment's notice. So it's an ever escalating spiral to see how many (unnecessary) ports etc. etc. they can cram into a box so they can scream "buy me" without going bankrupt in the process.

Then, darn 'em, Apple comes along again and disrupts the market by bringing out a quality object (e.g. iPad) that embodies a concept that Microsoft & the PC guys have tried for years unsuccessfully to bring to market, now they are falling all over themselves trying to copy Apple and saying "me too". It's kinda sad really.

The thing that PC users usually miss is that it's not really a discussion about how many ports, widgets, speed — and that something can be more than the sum of its parts. And at a point like this it usually comes down to having to agree to disagree Wink

 

p.s. oh yes, again of course they are stuffing their iPad clones full of ports naturally.

"I want to know all God's thoughts; the rest are just details." - Albert Einstein

Posts 15805
Forum MVP
Keep Smiling 4 Jesus :) | Forum Activity | Replied: Mon, Feb 21 2011 2:59 PM

Frank Sauer:
Just a little PC user advice here... ;)

Logos 4 Mac wiki page includes "Logos 4 is resource intensive on Mac & PC – benefits from fast processor, graphics, and disk along with adequate memory (e.g. newer hardware since Logos 4 being designed for use over 5 to 8 years)."

Frank Sauer:
All my Mac User friends always want to compare their $1200 - $2000 MacBook to a PC Laptop. What they forget is most of the time on a direct hardware comparison the PC is quite cheaper. Also for the record the competitor in me has had fun with some Mac friends that swore my $600 PC Laptop would never be as fast or compare to their Mac... Much to their surprise once you wipe the PC and install just Windows and programs you use removing all the "bloatware" it is like night and day.

Concur avoiding bloatware in PC significantly helps performance (along with tweaking Windows to turn off unneeded stuff: e.g. Aero transparency).  Looking forward to Apple's Mac Book Pro model refreshes later this week - anticipating Intel Sandy Bridge processors - curious about performance improvements and hardware comparison pricing (along with price drop for last year's models - refurbished and clearance at Apple's online store).

Tablet comparison: a new 10" iPad with 32 GB storage and 3G retails for $ 729 (released 9 months ago) which is $ 70 less than new 10" Motorola Xoom with 32 GB storage and 4G for $ 799 (now available for pre-order).  Refurbished 10" iPad without 3G (Wi-Fi only) is $ 499.  Less expensive are a couple Android tablets with smaller color screens (Nook Color and Samsung Galaxy Tab).  Note: Logos application not yet ready for Android.  Thankful for Logos application on iPad Geeked

Last year helped a friend shopping for a desktop PC; found a decent combination on sale in CostCo - personally noticed a quad core i7 desktop with monitor that was less expensive than 27" iMac; however, PC monitor had much smaller screen resolution than 2560 x 1440 in 27" iMac (with comparable 27" monitor, PC cost bit more).  Months later, could build a faster desktop (Newegg.com has 3.06 Ghz i7 bundle http://www.newegg.com/Product/ComboBundleDetails.aspx?ItemList=Combo.563968 ) and purchase new 27" monitor for less than new 27" iMac (model last refreshed July 2010).

Frank Sauer:
As much as I love Mac Users, in all their loyalty and comparison of how great a machine a Mac is in comparison to a PC... The one thing they never do is compare "Apples to Apples".

Many years ago, Apple hardware was always more expensive than PC.  In current market, comparison correlates with Apple refresh cycle - recent Apple refreshes usually offer better hardware deals - months later PC hardware becomes better deal.  Mac Rumors has Buyer's Guide => http://buyersguide.macrumors.com/ - currently only one Mac model has Buy recommendation (Mac Book Air was refreshed in October 2010).  If comparing "Apples to Apples", a Mac Book Air was less expensive than ultralight PC laptops with SSD drives, but cost more than ultralight PC laptops with older SATA drives => http://www.crunchgear.com/2010/10/26/the-top-5-pc-alternatives-to-the-macbook-air/  Trade off: older SATA drives offer decent performance plus larger storage capacity while SSD drives are faster and lighter.

Apple is the # 1 mobile manufacturer worldwide => http://gigaom.com/apple/apple-becomes-top-worldwide-mobile-pc-maker-thanks-to-ipad/ with 19 consecutive quarters of sales growth outpacing most sectors of PC market.  If include iPad with PC sales, then Apple was # 3 globally in PC sales last quarter => http://topelectronicsreview.com/apple-becomes-no-3-global-pc-maker-with-241-growth-if-ipad-is-included.html - quite a change from several decades ago when Apple enthusiasts were thrilled by sales over 4 % in US PC market.

Also, Apple offers free after sale technical support (including out of warranty) at Genius Bar in Apple Stores - recommend making an online appointment before going to Apple store.  Personal experience: bought an iMac in an Apple Store - did not purchase Apple Care - almost 3 years later - screen blank - made appointment with Genius - took iMac to different Apple Store - Genius opened iMac - looked in power supply - saw blown capacitor - Apple had quietly extended warranty for power supply to 3 years due to manufacturing defects - iMac fixed for free.

Keep Smiling Smile

Posts 2898
Mike Childs | Forum Activity | Replied: Mon, Feb 21 2011 3:05 PM

God bless you Patrick, but you couldn't be more wrong.  Love my iPad and iPhone, but give me a real computer and not a Mac.

"In all cases, the Church is to be judged by the Scripture, not the Scripture by the Church," John Wesley

Posts 15805
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Keep Smiling 4 Jesus :) | Forum Activity | Replied: Mon, Feb 21 2011 3:54 PM

Michael Childs:

God bless you Patrick, but you couldn't be more wrong.  Love my iPad and iPhone, but give me a real computer and not a Mac.

Observation: a real Mac can do more than PC.  Due to licensing, not legal to run Mac OS X on a PC.

Understand PC bias, however with an Intel processor, can use more software on Mac OS X - Logos 4 Mac wiki page includes several virtualization options (does need more RAM to run virtual machines at same time).  Edit: also Apple provides Boot Camp option for booting & running Windows natively on Mac.

Irony: in 1988 Apple sued Microsoft for cloning Mac's Look and Feel on PC - ongoing result: Microsoft tends to tweak user interface with every major release while Apple has more consistency.  Apple still has 1984 convention for resizing window by dragging lower right corner (heritage visible in many Windows programs).  Looking forward to Mac OS X 10.7 this summer (Apple's 7th revision of Mac OS X in 10 years); appears 1984 convention of menu bar always on top of screen going away - full screen apps => http://www.apple.com/macosx/lion/

Thankful Logos 4 usable on Mac & PC along with iOS devices Geeked  The best computer is one that encourages Logos use for Bible Study - different strokes for different folks, including 10 foot poles for some Wink

Keep Smiling Smile

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Keep Smiling 4 Jesus :) | Forum Activity | Replied: Fri, Feb 25 2011 9:15 AM

Keep Smiling 4 Jesus :):
In current market, comparison correlates with Apple refresh cycle - recent Apple refreshes usually offer better hardware deals - months later PC hardware becomes better deal.

Apologies - Crow has an interesting taste.

Apple refreshed Mac Book Pro models yesterday - retail price ranges from $ 1,199 to $ 2,499 - includes ThunderBolt connector - not yet on PC's for comparison.  Apple default configuration still has 5400 RPM drives (slower performance than 7200 RPM drives).

New Dell 17" XPS laptop with 2nd generation Intel Core i7-2820M is hundreds less than Apple's 17" Mac Book Pro ($ 2,499) plus can upgrade Dell memory to 16 GB Ram - requires graphics card upgrade with 3 GB video memory - higher class than Apple's according to http://www.notebookcheck.net/Comparison-of-Laptop-Graphics-Cards.130.0.html (Dell has class 1 graphics, while Apple uses class 2)

Except for ThunderBolt high speed external connector, can buy more hardware in PC laptop (including 3D screen) for less (albeit not have follow-on free tech support in Apple Stores).

Looking at Mac Book Pro benchmarks => http://www.primatelabs.ca/blog/2011/02/macbookpro-benchmarks-early-2011 - sandy bridge is substantially faster, something to consider for Logos 4 Geeked

Keep Smiling Smile

Posts 15
Nathan Gonzalez | Forum Activity | Replied: Fri, Feb 25 2011 11:36 AM

In all reality, the pc vs mac argument is still very opiniated. When you want to buy a gadget, like anything you buy, you buy what you want . some people don't like windows, some don't like the mac os. when it comes down to it if you buy computers with the same hardware and the same specs, then you can compare, but no one ever does that but if people ever do, it still all comes down to which OS do you want to play with at the end of the day while you are watching american idol.    As per thunderbolt... well there are usb 3.0 and hdmi's out there, do I want another cord ESPECIALLY since i operate wirelessly now for pretty much everything... cmon macs don't play yourself up

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