Permanent access to our logos library?

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This post has 33 Replies | 6 Followers

Posts 32
David Ogilbee | Forum Activity | Posted: Tue, Feb 22 2011 10:12 AM

Hi,

          I am planning on buying some of the more expensive commentary sets for logos, and I just wanted to be sure....if Logos were to ever go out of business, would we still have access to all of our logos library resources that we have purchased, on our computers?   

                Thanks for you help!  Right now I am just weighing out the pros and cons of having the logos version vs. the print version of certain sets.

                                                                           - David

Posts 1821
Rick | Forum Activity | Replied: Tue, Feb 22 2011 10:18 AM

Hi David. Yes, you would still have access to all of your library, they are stored on your computer. Although I truly cannot even fathom Logos going under, the only thing that would eventually happen is with new operating systems, it may not be able to install on future systems.

Posts 9947
George Somsel | Forum Activity | Replied: Tue, Feb 22 2011 10:19 AM

David Ogilbee:

Hi,

          I am planning on buying some of the more expensive commentary sets for logos, and I just wanted to be sure....if Logos were to ever go out of business, would we still have access to all of our logos library resources that we have purchased, on our computers?   

                Thanks for you help!  Right now I am just weighing out the pros and cons of having the logos version vs. the print version of certain sets.

                                                                           - David

Yes, of course, there would be no updates to the program, no new resources and no corrections to typos, but you would still have access to your resources so long as the program continued to operate, i.e., so long as the OS didn't make it obsolete or you don't trash the program.

george
gfsomsel

יְמֵי־שְׁנוֹתֵינוּ בָהֶם שִׁבְעִים שָׁנָה וְאִם בִּגְבוּרֹת שְׁמוֹנִים שָׁנָה וְרָהְבָּם עָמָל וָאָוֶן

Posts 1142
Juanita | Forum Activity | Replied: Tue, Feb 22 2011 10:29 AM

So, it's good news if you are a senior citizen and bad news if you just turned twenty one.    Big Smile

Posts 5317
Dan Francis | Forum Activity | Replied: Tue, Feb 22 2011 10:32 AM

George Somsel:

David Ogilbee:

Hi,

          I am planning on buying some of the more expensive commentary sets for logos, and I just wanted to be sure....if Logos were to ever go out of business, would we still have access to all of our logos library resources that we have purchased, on our computers?   

                Thanks for you help!  Right now I am just weighing out the pros and cons of having the logos version vs. the print version of certain sets.

                                                                           - David

 

Yes, of course, there would be no updates to the program, no new resources and no corrections to typos, but you would still have access to your resources so long as the program continued to operate, i.e., so long as the OS didn't make it obsolete or you don't trash the program.

There are almost always ways around the end of a program. Virtual machines can often be run to allow for older software to operate in an environment  it likes. I think MS offers something called Virtual PC (it already owned the name from when it use to make emulation software for macs).  So you can happily have an old OS running in shell window giving you support for running older software. I know personally I run sheepshaver OS 9 emulator to run my New Oxford Annotated library and a few other programs i wouldn't want to be without. I also run a parallels machine with Windows XP to run Foilio and a couple of other windows programs. So advancements in OS can almost always be overcome with a little emulation/ virtual machine. 

-Dan

Posts 9947
George Somsel | Forum Activity | Replied: Tue, Feb 22 2011 10:34 AM

Joan Korte:

So, it's good news if you are a senior citizen and bad news if you just turned twenty one.    Big Smile

Never a rose without a thorn.

george
gfsomsel

יְמֵי־שְׁנוֹתֵינוּ בָהֶם שִׁבְעִים שָׁנָה וְאִם בִּגְבוּרֹת שְׁמוֹנִים שָׁנָה וְרָהְבָּם עָמָל וָאָוֶן

Posts 9947
George Somsel | Forum Activity | Replied: Tue, Feb 22 2011 10:40 AM

Dan Francis:

George Somsel:

Yes, of course, there would be no updates to the program, no new resources and no corrections to typos, but you would still have access to your resources so long as the program continued to operate, i.e., so long as the OS didn't make it obsolete or you don't trash the program.

There are almost always ways around the end of a program. Virtual machines can often be run to allow for older software to operate in an environment  it likes. I think MS offers something called Virtual PC (it already owned the name from when it use to make emulation software for macs).  So you can happily have an old OS running in shell window giving you support for running older software. I know personally I run sheepshaver OS 9 emulator to run my New Oxford Annotated library and a few other programs i wouldn't want to be without. I also run a parallels machine with Windows XP to run Foilio and a couple of other windows programs. So advancements in OS can almost always be overcome with a little emulation/ virtual machine. 

-Dan

But unless you have a disk with the program so that you can install it on a new machine or under a new OS which isn't compatible running under a VM, how are you to install it? 

george
gfsomsel

יְמֵי־שְׁנוֹתֵינוּ בָהֶם שִׁבְעִים שָׁנָה וְאִם בִּגְבוּרֹת שְׁמוֹנִים שָׁנָה וְרָהְבָּם עָמָל וָאָוֶן

Posts 3768
Floyd Johnson | Forum Activity | Replied: Tue, Feb 22 2011 10:45 AM

The ability to store our books on our own machine is one of the things I appreciate about LOGOS.  

I own another piece of software (not Bible software) that requires that I log into the manufacturer's servers every time I start the software.  The connection is not needed to run the software - just to start it and log in.  Once I am verified as a user, the Internet is no longer needed.  A power failure at their server site (and it has happened twice this past year) means I cannot use the software.

Thank you LOGOS.

Blessings,
Floyd

Pastor-Patrick.blogspot.com

Posts 5573
Forum MVP
Rich DeRuiter | Forum Activity | Replied: Tue, Feb 22 2011 10:53 AM

David Ogilbee:

Hi,

          I am planning on buying some of the more expensive commentary sets for logos, and I just wanted to be sure....if Logos were to ever go out of business, would we still have access to all of our logos library resources that we have purchased, on our computers?   

                Thanks for you help!  Right now I am just weighing out the pros and cons of having the logos version vs. the print version of certain sets.

                                                                           - David

Don't forget that print editions are subject to the 'moth and rust' principle too. I know someone who lost most of their TDNT (the multivolume set) to termites. Fire, water and mold can also damage books -- and such damage can happen at home or when in transit to a new ministry location. In some books, over time, the binding glue will break down causing pages to fall out -- even in hard back resources. Both heat and humidity are enemies of the longetivity of paper books.

There are long term dangers either way, so the question is really one of whether the risks outweigh the benefits.

The likelihood of Logos going under in our lifetime is quite low, IMHO. As I've seen Logos grow, create and maintain relationships with publishers, build their program with a strong commitment to future technologies, and grow their customer base exponentially in the process, I think were' on pretty firm ground here. Logos is not only the best Bible research program over all (any way you look at it), it's also the most widely used (not something you can say about a lot of software); both criteria are necessary to guarantee a future for the program.

Besides that, for me, I so much prefer books in Logos, that I never, ever buy commentaries in paper form any more. Logos is so much more convenient, that I have all my commentaries literally at my finger tips. Further, when I decide to open one, it opens to the exact place where my Bible is open. I can sometimes read 5 commentaries on a single verse before I'm able to walk 2 steps, grab a book and open it to the right page. My time is worth more to me than my money, so for me this is a no brainer.

 Help links: WIKI;  Logos 6 FAQ. (Phil. 2:14, NIV)

Posts 32
David Ogilbee | Forum Activity | Replied: Tue, Feb 22 2011 11:03 AM

Thanks for all the responses!

                                    Does anyone know if a CD-Rom version of the NICOT/NICNT is available?   

                                                                                    Thanks!

Posts 11433
DMB | Forum Activity | Replied: Tue, Feb 22 2011 11:04 AM

I agree with the gist of Joan's comment. Assurances of life after 'Logos' are relative to one's age. Take for example L3 a few days ago, which just about 'bit the dust' absent Logos sending a note to MS (who knows ... maybe absent Logos, another company would send a note). But having large amounts of binary data on your very own disk drive is only useful with a working program to read it. That's why we keep several older computers downstairs in the music room, none attached to the internet and all clean installs (mostly to run classic synth software, but L3's got his little home down there too where MS can't bother him).

"God will save his fallen angels and their broken wings He'll mend."

Posts 55
J Hale | Forum Activity | Replied: Tue, Feb 22 2011 12:04 PM

The benefits of Logos books over print are overwhelming:

No chance of losing one book in a multi-book set.

The print in the books will always be readable.

Can make and take off highlighting, and notes without destroying the book.

If you loose your books (as in you loose your computer), or if the book gets an update, has errors, Logos will change those errors, download an update, without charging you.

All footnotes, endnotes, scripture, and book references, that Logos has, is hyperlinked, so you can read them easily.

Logos is completely searchable, taking hours, and hours, and hours, and even years, off searching hundreds of books by yourself.

The ability of having hundreds, even thousands, of books on an office desk, and even on your lap, making it way, way, easier to transport, and to store, than print books.

Posts 9947
George Somsel | Forum Activity | Replied: Tue, Feb 22 2011 12:52 PM

Richard DeRuiter:

Besides that, for me, I so much prefer books in Logos, that I never, ever buy commentaries in paper form any more. Logos is so much more convenient, that I have all my commentaries literally at my finger tips. Further, when I decide to open one, it opens to the exact place where my Bible is open. I can sometimes read 5 commentaries on a single verse before I'm able to walk 2 steps, grab a book and open it to the right page. My time is worth more to me than my money, so for me this is a no brainer.

Anouther advantage to having your library in Logos is that no one can borrow your books then fail to return them.  Big Smile  Yes  Music  Cake  Pizza  Beer

george
gfsomsel

יְמֵי־שְׁנוֹתֵינוּ בָהֶם שִׁבְעִים שָׁנָה וְאִם בִּגְבוּרֹת שְׁמוֹנִים שָׁנָה וְרָהְבָּם עָמָל וָאָוֶן

Posts 19216
Rosie Perera | Forum Activity | Replied: Tue, Feb 22 2011 2:40 PM

George Somsel:
But unless you have a disk with the program so that you can install it on a new machine or under a new OS which isn't compatible running under a VM, how are you to install it? 

Download the install program now and burn your own disk of it. Then you'll have it for whenever. And in case CD's become obsolete, save a copy of it somewhere that you'll always have backward compatible access to, e.g., an external hard disk or the cloud. Every time technology changes, we have to keep copying our old stuff up to the new medium or converting it to a new format, but as long as we keep doing that, we won't lose access to it. That chore becomes more and more onerous the more stuff we accumulate that we want permanent access to, though...

Posts 1991
Donnie Hale | Forum Activity | Replied: Tue, Feb 22 2011 3:06 PM

Rosie Perera:
Download the install program now and burn your own disk of it.

That isn't sufficient since the downloadable installer is just a very small bootstrap. That bootstrap downloads the real (currently) ~46MB installer. That real installer is on purchased DVDs, and it can be found in the right folder for a while. But i really wish they allowed me to download the full installer and run it for upgrades. I'd always do it that way.

Donnie

 

Posts 34
David Drew | Forum Activity | Replied: Tue, Feb 22 2011 3:25 PM

As I see it, the main problem with L4 is that you can't back-up your own licence. If Logos were to go down, there's no-way you can correctly activate your L4 installation, and then go into 'offline mode'.

For that reason, I like to keep a copy of my L3 licences somewhere safe. That way, if Logos were to ever die in the distant future, I could just reinstall L3 into a Win XP virtual machine and work away happily with the bulk of my resources.

Posts 19216
Rosie Perera | Forum Activity | Replied: Tue, Feb 22 2011 3:39 PM

Donnie Hale:
That isn't sufficient since the downloadable installer is just a very small bootstrap. That bootstrap downloads the real (currently) ~46MB installer. That real installer is on purchased DVDs, and it can be found in the right folder for a while. But i really wish they allowed me to download the full installer and run it for upgrades.

OK, so the geeks among us know how to save the real installer from the temp folder (or wherever it gets put -- I can't remember off the top of my head) for future use. You're right that Logos should make this possibility available to all.

Posts 9947
George Somsel | Forum Activity | Replied: Tue, Feb 22 2011 3:41 PM

David Drew:

 

For that reason, I like to keep a copy of my L3 licences somewhere safe. That way, if Logos were to ever die in the distant future, I could just reinstall L3 into a Win XP virtual machine and work away happily with the bulk of my resources.

I have a backup copy on my disk, a backup on a flash drive and another backup stored in my correspondence in my internet account.  I'm not paranoid or anything -- WHAT ARE YOU LOOKING AT ?  Wink

george
gfsomsel

יְמֵי־שְׁנוֹתֵינוּ בָהֶם שִׁבְעִים שָׁנָה וְאִם בִּגְבוּרֹת שְׁמוֹנִים שָׁנָה וְרָהְבָּם עָמָל וָאָוֶן

Posts 5317
Dan Francis | Forum Activity | Replied: Tue, Feb 22 2011 4:10 PM

George Somsel:

Dan Francis:

George Somsel:

Yes, of course, there would be no updates to the program, no new resources and no corrections to typos, but you would still have access to your resources so long as the program continued to operate, i.e., so long as the OS didn't make it obsolete or you don't trash the program.

There are almost always ways around the end of a program. Virtual machines can often be run to allow for older software to operate in an environment  it likes. I think MS offers something called Virtual PC (it already owned the name from when it use to make emulation software for macs).  So you can happily have an old OS running in shell window giving you support for running older software. I know personally I run sheepshaver OS 9 emulator to run my New Oxford Annotated library and a few other programs i wouldn't want to be without. I also run a parallels machine with Windows XP to run Foilio and a couple of other windows programs. So advancements in OS can almost always be overcome with a little emulation/ virtual machine. 

-Dan

 

But unless you have a disk with the program so that you can install it on a new machine or under a new OS which isn't compatible running under a VM, how are you to install it? 

I always make sure  my resources are backed up it is true I don't keep an updated installer  of the latest version of the program.  But If the Logos went belly up I am quite sure it would be very possible to get a copy of the latest installer and make sure it is saved to a CD. 

 

-Dan

Posts 550
Shawn Drewett | Forum Activity | Replied: Tue, Feb 22 2011 4:12 PM

Lol!

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