Hebrew Word Order for the Interlinear Bible in Logos 4

2011/03/06

Hi There,

I couldn't find this issue addressed elsewhere on the Logos Forums, so here goes.

I would like to display the Interlinear Bible in-line in my Passage Guide, but I would like to know, please, if there is a way to display the Interlinear in Hebrew word order instead of English word order.

Is there a setting that I'm missing somewhere?

Thanks, David

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Comments

Kevin Becker

David,

I'm not certain that I understand what you are asking, what section of the passage guide are you using to display Bible text? I can't think of one off the top of my head. The Word-By-Word Section of the Exegetical guide might be useful to you and you can create a custom Passage guide with that section in it.

It seems to me that if you want to see a Hebrew interlinear you should just open up a Hebrew interlinear in another pane.

David N.

2011/03/06

Hi Kevin,

Thank you so much for the lightning fast response!

David,

It seems to me that if you want to see a Hebrew interlinear you should just open up a Hebrew interlinear in another pane.

You are correct - I had a layout with the ESV English on the left and the Hebrew Bible on the right, open to Genesis 1:1 - not in the Passage Guide (but the hint about the Exegetical Guide was super and I want to check that out as well.)

So, thanks to your suggestion, I opened a middle pane with the Interlinear Bible and I unchecked "Surface" - hoping that the English word order would go away and this approximates what I want. However, the Hebrew in the Interlinear still displays in the English word order rather than the way that the text appears in the Hebrew Bible in the right most pane.

Maybe I should just skip the Interlinear Bible, but I wanted it there for the parts of speech.

Thanks, David

Mark Barnes

David,

It's not clear from your post whether you understand the difference between Reverse Interlinears and ordinary interlinears. So forgive me if you know all this already. A reverse interlinear maintains the English word order, whilst an ordinary interlinear retains the Greek/Hebrew word order.

Reverse Interlinears are accessed as part of the 'standard' English translation, but ordinary interlinears are separate resources. If you go into your library and enter type:bible title:interlinear, you should find all your ordinary interlinears. The only OT English interlinear available in Logos is The Lexham Hebrew-English Interlinear Bible. It's available in Original Languages, and Gold or above.

Ordinary interlinears don't have the interlinear ribbon at the bottom, but they do have all the inline options.

Mark

George Somsel

2011/03/06

Hi There,

I couldn't find this issue addressed elsewhere on the Logos Forums, so here goes.

I would like to display the Interlinear Bible in-line in my Passage Guide, but I would like to know, please, if there is a way to display the Interlinear in Hebrew word order instead of English word order.

Is there a setting that I'm missing somewhere?

Thanks, David

The best solution is to avoid the use of an interlinear altogether and simply stick to the Hebrew text.

David N.

2011/03/06

Hi Mark,

Thank you so much for your reply.

David,
It's not clear from your post whether you understand the difference between Reverse Interlinears and ordinary interlinears. So forgive me if you know all this already. A reverse interlinear maintains the English word order, whilst an ordinary interlinear retains the Greek/Hebrew word order.

I thought that a "Reverse Interlinear" meant that if you click on an English word in a Bible version that has a Reverse Interlinear, that the "Interlinear Ribbon" at the bottom of the English translation moves to the Hebrew word (in the OT) that corresponds to the English word you are hovering over or clicking on. Is that correct?

Reverse Interlinears are accessed as part of the 'standard' English translation, but ordinary interlinears are separate resources. If you go into your library and enter type:bible title:interlinear, you should find all your ordinary interlinears. The only OT English interlinear available in Logos is The Lexham Hebrew-English Interlinear Bible. It's available in Original Languages, and Gold or above. Mark

I have Logos 4 Scholar's Gold, and I performed the search as you stated above and (as expected) I have the Lexham Hebrew-English Interlinear Bible. But I also have the ESV which has a Reverse Interlinear Bible (although not available as a "stand alone" Resource.)

The reason for my inquiry is that I can do exactly what I'd like to do as stated above (change the word order in the displayed Interlinear Bible) using a fabulous program called "PC Study Bible" by Biblesoft and I was trying to duplicate this functionality in Logos 4. You can simply check or uncheck a setting to have the English display in the desired orientation.

I don't have MS Office on my "new" computer yet, so I can't paste in an example from WORD here in this post, but the Hebrew Bible says: "B'resheet bara Elohim et a shamayim v'et ha-aretz." (Right to Left) and the Interlinear says: "B' - Resheet - Elohim - Bara - Et - Ha - Shamayim - V' - Et - Ha' - Aretz (Left to Right) - which is not the correct Hebrew phrasing - the word order of the Hebrew is set by the English meaning, rather than displaying the English according to the Hebrew phrasing.

I hope that's clearer.

Thanks, David

David N.

2011/03/06

Hi George,

Thank you for your reply.

The best solution is to avoid the use of an interlinear altogether and simply stick to the Hebrew text.

The reason for my original inquiry above is that I can change the word order in the displayed Interlinear Bible (meaning "flip" the English so that the English is "out of phrasing order" instead of the Hebrew) using a fabulous program called "PC Study Bible" by Biblesoft and I was trying to duplicate this functionality in Logos 4.

I agree that the best solution is to avoid the Interlinear (when it comes to the Hebrew, but I am not as familiar with Greek - but I also don't think there would be the same impact of the English word order phrasing in the Greek, but I'm not sure), but I wanted to see if I could duplicate the functionality of PC Study Bible in Logos 4.

Thanks, David

Keep Smiling 4 Jesus :)

The reason for my original inquiry above is that I can change the word order in the displayed Interlinear Bible (meaning "flip" the English so that the English is "out of phrasing order" instead of the Hebrew)

Appears Lexham Hebrew-English Interlinear preserves Hebrew word order when displaying Lexical Value (or English Literal Translation):

Wonder if George would agree - interlinear lexical value lacks range of possible meanings from original language words - essentially is a simple translation (likely valid, but leaves out other valid translations and nuances - e.g. intensity of action expressed by verb).

Keep Smiling [:)]

George Somsel

Wonder if George would agree - interlinear lexical value lacks range of possible meanings from original language words - essentially is a simple translation (likely valid, but leaves out other valid translations and nuances - e.g. intensity of action expressed by verb).

Keep Smiling

Yes, I would sort of agree with that. The big problem with interlinears is that when you rely on them to understand something like מְרַחֶפֶת in Gen 1.2 you see a one-word gloss for the term and associate that with the word. What have you learned ? NOTHING ! You might as well have stuck with the English. It's going to be the word chosen in whatever translation you happen to pick. It's pretending that you know the language. Let's all play "Let's pretend." Nothing is gained except perhaps that you have possibly learned the form of the letters in the original language. Phoney, phoney, phoney.

David N.

2011/03/07

Hi Mark,

David,
Reverse Interlinears are accessed as part of the 'standard' English translation, but ordinary interlinears are separate resources. If you go into your library and enter type:bible title:interlinear, you should find all your ordinary interlinears. The only OT English interlinear available in Logos is The Lexham Hebrew-English Interlinear Bible. It's available in Original Languages, and Gold or above.

Ordinary interlinears don't have the interlinear ribbon at the bottom, but they do have all the inline options.

Mark

I inadvertently confused the issue (and myself!) by not looking at the Lexham Hebrew-English Interlinear Bible. I was actually looking at the ESV Interlinear, I think?!? Now I'm totally confused. But I'm trying to upload a picture of my Layout.

Thanks, David

David N.

2011/03/07

Hi Keep Smiling,

Thank you for your reply to my post. Your image of Lexham Hebrew-English Interlinear Bible helped me a lot!

The reason for my original inquiry above is that I can change the word order in the displayed Interlinear Bible (meaning "flip" the English so that the English is "out of phrasing order" instead of the Hebrew)

Appears Lexham Hebrew-English Interlinear preserves Hebrew word order when displaying Lexical Value (or English Literal Translation):

Keep Smiling

I think what I need to do is replace the middle pane in my layout with the Lexham Hebrew-English Interlinear Bible, and that will solve my issue. I am referring to the image I just uploaded in the post above.

Thank you so much for your help.

David