Logos 4 running slow on mac...

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Posts 1
Erik Meyers | Forum Activity | Posted: Fri, Mar 11 2011 12:20 PM

My macbook has never run logos 4 smoothly.  Scrolling is brutal.  Takes long time to load.  Haven't begun using because it takes so long.  Other than buying another macbook, any help would be greatly appreciated.

3580.Archive.zip

 

Posts 570
Rev Chris | Forum Activity | Replied: Fri, Mar 11 2011 2:45 PM

Mine does the same thing ... I assumed it was because the program is more powerful than my macbook.  I have a late 2009 13" MBP model.  I just ordered some more ram for it today, so we'll see whether that makes a difference.  (I paid $63 for 8gb of ram, which I figured was a pretty cheap option if it works).

Pastor, seminary trustee, and app developer.  Check out my latest app for churches: The Church App

Posts 570
Rev Chris | Forum Activity | Replied: Fri, Mar 11 2011 3:08 PM

you might want to check out this link too...

 

http://wiki.logos.com/Mac_Troubleshooting#Slow_Performance

Pastor, seminary trustee, and app developer.  Check out my latest app for churches: The Church App

Posts 15805
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Keep Smiling 4 Jesus :) | Forum Activity | Replied: Fri, Mar 11 2011 3:49 PM

Welcome Big Smile

Indexer.log shows version 4.21.5.0585 (current stable release is 4.21.5.0906 includes several crash fixes and a performance improvement for prayer lists); noticed indexing completed; later noticed update channel set to Beta.  This post could have been opened in Mac Beta forum => http://community.logos.com/forums/90.aspx

If want to switch to Stable channel, can use command set update channel to stable (should download and install 4.21.5.0906 - fairly quick since 4.2a indexing already done).  After installation, if want future Beta releases, can use command set update channel to beta.

From process #, know Mac has not been restarted for a long time.  Wonder about restarting Mac (after installing 4.21.5.0906) - watch for Blue Icon to appear then disappear in menu bar (can open Indexer.log file to see Indexing complete) - then launch Logos 4 Mac.

Looking at logs, noticed passage entered for Judges 14 on home page while indexing in progress.  Thanks - provided incentive to up date Wiki.

Observation: during Logos 4 Mac alpha pre-release versions, learned trying to use Logos 4 Mac while indexing in progress is quite slow (even on a 2.8 GHz Quad Core i7 iMac).  Added "Logos 4 Indexing is resource intensive – good idea to connect power adapter and laptop cooler – let indexing complete before using Logos 4 (wait for blue Logos icon to disappear from menu bar)" to Mac Troubleshooting page has Slow Performance section.

Logos Running Slowly wiki page has: * Forum PAINFUL SCROLLING ... has an Exegetical Guide tweak – remove Word by Word section for faster scrolling. Workaround option: in New Testament, displaying Louw-Nida numbers scrolls faster along with English gloss pop-up containing semantic domain information. Visual filters can highlight greek morphology in interlinear Bibles.

From a blog learned about collapsing Guide sections => http://blog.logos.com/archives/2010/02/logos_4_collapse_sections_in_guides.html

Idea Passage Guide and Exegetical Guide can be customized - click upper left of panel - click edit this guide template.  Personally clicked pencil to rename "Copy of ...." to "My ..."; for My Passage Guide, removed 4 sections at bottom ending with ".com" - sections use internet to look for passage information on 4 web sites - also added couple collections to Passage Guide.  Likewise created a custom Exegetical Guide "Word by Word - All" that only has Word by Word section so have option to run detailed report for a verse or two (when willing to wait for section to populate).

Looking in Logos4.log file noticed many RichTextReference ERROR's after navigating - suspect impacted scrolling speed (possibly Word by Word section population in Exegetical Guide).

Likewise noticed some Logos Bible Software 4 system errors:

ERROR: value [NSCFNumber] is not a kind of IEnumerableOfRichTextElement

ERROR: value=[0]

Appears several times (including thrice) before Opening Up Judges.

Near bottom of Logos4.log file are many Error's:

kCGErrorIllegalArgument: CGSGetDisplayBounds (display 1c807a21)

followed by synchronization download error, crash, and more Error's:

kCGErrorIllegalArgument: CGSGetDisplayBounds (display 42716c0)

If crash repeats, please describe steps leading to crash along with posting new set of logs.

Keep Smiling Smile

Posts 2809
Kevin A. Purcell | Forum Activity | Replied: Mon, Mar 14 2011 7:20 PM

Rev Chris:

Mine does the same thing ... I assumed it was because the program is more powerful than my macbook.  I have a late 2009 13" MBP model.  I just ordered some more ram for it today, so we'll see whether that makes a difference.  (I paid $63 for 8gb of ram, which I figured was a pretty cheap option if it works).

 

Not sure if this will make you feel better or worse. I have a present generation MacBook Pro with Intel core i7 quad core processor AMD Radeon 6490 graphics.

I just did two upgrades that should have really helped Logos. Went form 4-8GB of ram. I installed a 500GB Momentus XT hard drive. This is the hybrid drive with 4GB of flash memory in addition to the7200 rpm optical hard drive. Made the whole system really sing. It is now cooking!! Great upgrades.

One noticeable benefit was running another bible software program in Parallels. You know that Bible program that works now for 8 different versions? It starts up, including the starting of Parallels booting Windows 7 in ... 12 seconds. Previously it loaded Windows and then the software in about 30 seconds.

Logos takes nearly a minute to load.  That's right a full minute!! That tells you that something just ain't right!

Love what Logos can do and all the great resources. Love the iPad/iPhone app. Just hate how incredibly slow the mac version is. Seriously considering installing the Windows version in Parallels. At this point I wouldn't be surprised it it runs faster.

Now before I get a lot of people trying to analyze what's wrong with my system understand this. EVERYTHING else I run is super fast. I have one slow program on this computer.

I say this not to dissuade people from using Logos. I offer it hoping the devs will see this and get on that optimization we heard so much about.

Posts 82
Andrew Hanson | Forum Activity | Replied: Mon, Mar 14 2011 9:36 PM

Kevin, something is very wrong with something on your machine. I don't know what it is, but I too have a brand new MBP, quad core i7, with only 4 GB of RAM, and Logos opens in 15-25 seconds. I don't know the specs of your HDD, but it has to be faster than my stock 5400 RPM, 750 GB HDD. Logos SCREAMS on my machine. I wait for nothing. Even exegetical guides happen within a matter of seconds, instead of minutes as it once did. 

Posts 10813
Forum MVP
Jack Caviness | Forum Activity | Replied: Tue, Mar 15 2011 4:46 AM

Kevin A. Purcell:
Seriously considering installing the Windows version in Parallels. At this point I wouldn't be surprised it it runs faster.

Are you running L4 Mac and Parallels at the same time? There was some discussion in another thread that this configuration would slow things down. I could not duplicate that on my Mac Pro, but I have 11GB RAM. Since you have 8GB, you also might not notice a difference.

Posts 219
Dennis Miller | Forum Activity | Replied: Tue, Mar 15 2011 6:14 AM

I have found that Accordance loads in a matter of seconds no matter what Mac I run it on. That's what you get with a true Mac application.

Posts 570
Rev Chris | Forum Activity | Replied: Tue, Mar 15 2011 9:26 AM

Yes, Accordance runs quicker - but that's also what you get when you run a program that's much more limited than Logos.  After using some of the tips from the wiki link I posted above, my Logos is running quite smooth now - and I haven't even gotten my ram upgrade in the mail yet.  As for Bibleworks 8 - I'm sure its great if you want to run a program through parallels ... but I personally don't like parallels and refuse to install Windows on my MBP just to run a Bible study program - especially when I've invested so much into Logos already.

Pastor, seminary trustee, and app developer.  Check out my latest app for churches: The Church App

Posts 10813
Forum MVP
Jack Caviness | Forum Activity | Replied: Tue, Mar 15 2011 10:50 AM

Dennis Miller:

I have found that Accordance loads in a matter of seconds no matter what Mac I run it on. That's what you get with a true Mac application.

I have used Accordance since before it was Accordance, so I can state from experience that Accordance is much quicker that Logos, not because if is a "true Mac application" but because it has far less capability than L4.

Posts 2689
mab | Forum Activity | Replied: Tue, Mar 15 2011 1:29 PM

Startup time has lots of factors. It's the time it takes to do things that matter most. Once Logos is up on my little 2GB system, things are fairly fast.  Logos is faster in Windows, but I am not sure it's by a giant leap anymore.

I would be curious to know how big Kevin's library is--a large library might take longer to load. Anyone familiar with the inner workings of Logos' design able to comment on this?

The mind of man is the mill of God, not to grind chaff, but wheat. Thomas Manton | Study hard, for the well is deep, and our brains are shallow. Richard Baxter

Posts 493
Mr. Simple | Forum Activity | Replied: Tue, Mar 15 2011 3:52 PM

 I can say for sure that Logos 4 could use some significant re architecting in terms of UI response performance.

I have a brand new Mac Pro Server with 4 cores and 8 Threads ,  16 gig of RAM, 1 Gig Video Card, 4 high speed disk drives to spread the I/O out across applications and operating system. I also have a 100 megabit uplink to the internet.

Top of the line and Logos 4 is still slow when it comes to UI response on a search, resizing windows etc.

I am only running Logos 4 on the machine, nothing else.  I have the Leader Bundle as my resource library

Perhaps Logos could contract a performance tuning expert for a special project to benchmark, identify bottlenecks and restructure code would be in order.

 

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Forum MVP
Keep Smiling 4 Jesus :) | Forum Activity | Replied: Tue, Mar 15 2011 4:14 PM

Larry Good:
Top of the line and Logos 4 is still slow when it comes to UI response on a search, resizing windows etc.

Please elaborate

Mac Troubleshooting page Slow Performance section includes "To help Logos development know what needs speed improvement, please post repeatable steps on Logos 4 Mac forum including timing, logs (see How to Report Bugs in Logos 4 Mac), and screen shot(s)."

Keep Smiling Smile

 

Posts 493
Mr. Simple | Forum Activity | Replied: Tue, Mar 15 2011 4:33 PM

I can do that as time allows.

My general observation looking at all the posts across a variety of platforms, situations etc is that there are over arching issues. I've never used a program where the user forums are so full of these types of problems. There are benchmarking and scripting tools which allow developers to run through a whole suite of repeatable steps that can be used to baseline and then improve performance.

Many users I imagine simply do not have the time/expertise to deliever details logs etc.

It's kind of like taking you car to a shop and they ask you to provide the oscilloscope readings and other diagnostics. 

There has to be a more comprehensive approach to this given the substantial feedback users are providing you.

Perhaps you can develpe a "debug" mode that can capture logs, performance logs that the user can turn on, run and then email you the output for a close analysis. It should be as simple as possible for end users to "run debug mode" and send it off. Another alternative is to allow your support staff a tool where they can log into the users desktop with their permission and see what the user sees in real time.

I've done that with Apple support and it saves misunderstanding,time and the unknowns of the running environment.

 

 

Posts 190
EmileB | Forum Activity | Replied: Tue, Mar 15 2011 7:31 PM

I have to agree. I have been a PC user all my life, but have been planning to upgrade to a Mac. I have been following the forums and Mac progress/performance for about two years (I think)... I was very enthused at first, but the more I have seen, I have to say that this just isn't normal. I can't imagine any other software program having so many struggles/problems for so long. It truly is a testimony to the loyalty of Logos' customer base.I count myself as one of those loyal customers, having been with Logos since almost the beginning.

While it may be true that many folks experience no difficulties, the (seemingly very) large numbers who are would indicate that something is seriously flawed in the Mac software. We all want this program to work so badly... we love Logos and what it provides... but it is seeming self-defeating to me. Most users aren't tech gurus. It seems, from what I'm reading at  least, that the program is so complex and flawed  that a person must spend way too much time not only learning the software (a daunting task in itself), but in tweaking it, trying this or that, reporting problems to tech at Logos (in very technical terms, as Larry writes).... that it's no longer a practical use of time. Would anyone on this forum put up with that with any other piece of software? I really question that.  I'm not a techie. I'm a missionary. I have  a good deal of experience as a computer operator, but is it really right to expect the customer to have to make so many adjustments to get this program to perform acceptably, or to be so involved in helping the developer fix what ails it?

This isn't a beta release anymore. The whole purpose of Logos (at least from what was marketed) was that the program put a wealth of resources at your fingertips, and saved a person significant time in Bible study. I'm frankly not seeing that.  It's not simply a question of "six seconds to search your whole library" (which doesn't account for the vast amount of time necessary to sort through the hundreds or even thousands of meaningless "hits" to find what is useful... something I'd never have to do working with a physical library )... but what about accounting for all of the time and effort just to try to figure out how to make it work? I could far more easily and quickly just go to my book shelf and find what I need... and then get on with the task for which I was studying in the first place... ministering to people.

And the amount of power that it seems you need to run this program sure seems unreasonable. I'll be leaving in 7 weeks to return to the mission field... and it would appear that I'm going to have to bring a machine that will be the most powerful supercomputer (literally) in at least a 50-mile radius of my location. And then what? What if its more frustration than its worth? What if I can't get this thing working properly? I'm not heading overseas (and making sacrifices and seeking support from others)  to spend my day working on / tweaking Logos. I'm not a Logos staff member. I'm a missionary who works with kids. But it seems more and more that Logos is not only insatiably consuming more and more computer resources... but operator resources as well. I can't afford that much time to get a tool to work right. In any other field, if a tool doesn't perform the needed task efficiently, you get another tool.

I'm becoming more and more boggled by Logos in general. New websites and services seem to come and go... none of which seem fully functioning as of yet. Another learning curve to overcome. Am I the only one who doesn't have the time for all of that? What ever happened to the value of having something working properly before its introduced? I would never THINK of establishing a website for my ministry that wasn't fully or properly operational before introducing it to the public. That only serves to frustrate and confuse people and cause them to loose interest in my work. It FEELS/LOOKS like (I don't think it IS) that Logos has lost its direction/identity trying to do too much or be too much to too many. It just seems it would be better to focus on one thing and get it right before moving on to introducing something else. Logos 4Mac seems one of those things that needs the company's full attention before it introduces all of the other projects. The iPad app seems to have suffered from similar issues, but at least it seems that the kinks (including the introduction of all of the intended features)  are slowly being worked out in that department.

SO... since I've already invested thousands of dollars in Logos over the years, what do I do? I'm really left with little choice, it seems, than to abandon any plans to purchase a Mac (which is a shame, because I could really use a Mac for other things...) But I can't afford to buy two computers... a PC to run my heavy investment in Logos efficiently and well, and a Mac to run Mac programs I need or would like in order to simplify my life. I feel trapped, and I almost have started regretting my investment through the years in Logos. 

I can't BELIEVE I've just said that. Sad

I've been told that Mac is the way to go, because things just WORK. Well, it doesn't seem like that's the case with Logos. I feel bad saying that, and I know you guys at Logos are doing your best... I do commend you sincerely... but things ought to be working smoothly by this point... after so long in developing this version of the program. I still believe that Logos is the best company ever, with the best customer service this side of heaven... but I'm starting to lose faith in the product. It's just gotten to the point (in more ways than this issue) that its become too complex and cumbersome to be useful... at least in terms of its original purpose of making ministry easier. At least for this user.

I welcome any helpful perspectives/suggestions, and hope I've not offended anyone here by sharing my sincere sadness and despair over this. Please don't flame me... I feel badly enough.

Posts 757
Fr. Charles R. Matheny | Forum Activity | Replied: Tue, Mar 15 2011 7:54 PM

QUOTE:Yes, Accordance runs quicker - but that's also what you get when you run a program that's much more limited than Logos. END QUOTE

I find that statement has no basis in fact or function.

Just another way to minimize the people who report errors in Logos.

Logos for Mac is having issues, it is not the fault of the people who buy it, it is not the fault of their machines that run everything else just fine.

It is a problem/s in coding the softeware.

Granted it is being worked on, has come a long way so far, but it is not the problem of the buyers or the Macs.

Nor , when compared to Accordance, is it a problem with Accordance, Accordance is not less powerful than Logos, not at all, not in any way.

Accordance has been a native Mac software for a lot longer than Logos, thats the difference in operational consistency/speed, not that Accordance has limited ability.

You can search every resource you have in Accordance faster than you can move a mouse, Logos cannot do the same with the exact same resource library.

The Statement of limited ability concerning Accordance has no basis in fact.

Feature sets are presented differently, the philosophy of usage is different, but Accordance is not more limited than Logos.

An automatic transmission may be easier for some drivers, but that does not make a standard more limited, actually the opposite is true.

The standard will actually be able to do more "types" of work, especially in precision situations, than the automatic can do, and, is more efficient and thus economical in doing so.

I understand we like to "root for our team" , and that is fine ( I root for Apple all the time-smile) , yet, don't think it is good to make statements of fact when they should be of preference.

Blessings all,

 Rusty+

Posts 757
Fr. Charles R. Matheny | Forum Activity | Replied: Tue, Mar 15 2011 8:05 PM

I agree EmileB, well said.

 

With any software concerning Bible-study, or any tool for anything as far as that goes, one expects some type of learning curve, then, expects the tool to work, and as one get proficient in it's usage, the tool disappears and one can concentrate on their work.

This software, at this point, is akin to driving while texting, while talking on another phone , while watching a movie.

So distracted by the tools, one cannot work efficiently.

 

Posts 2964
tom | Forum Activity | Replied: Tue, Mar 15 2011 8:11 PM

While I do not have a mac, I can say that L4 runs painfully slow on my pc and my laptop.  While both of them are not top of the line, both of them easily (double as a matter of fact) the min. requirements stated by Logos to run L4.

Posts 2689
mab | Forum Activity | Replied: Tue, Mar 15 2011 9:41 PM

I'm still somewhat puzzled that people with really good hardware seem to complain about Logos. I'm running a 1.83G Core 2 MacMini with 2GB of RAM and use Logos 4 Mac everyday. Yes the first bootup is slow. After that it's fine. If you want to open dozens of windows, 2GB isn't enough. I try to keep other apps closed when running Logos, but I do not have to baby it.

Sure I want a faster machine for Logos, but if I had to go to the Apple Store tomorrow and just get a newer MacMini (with more RAM this time), I would be more than content. Any current well-maintained Mac can run L4M.

Most people can stand in front of a microwave and wait for their tea to heat up for a minute. In front of a computer, only their impatience seems to get warm. Love is patient. 

The mind of man is the mill of God, not to grind chaff, but wheat. Thomas Manton | Study hard, for the well is deep, and our brains are shallow. Richard Baxter

Posts 493
Mr. Simple | Forum Activity | Replied: Tue, Mar 15 2011 10:25 PM

Michael -

Love is patient is not the proper application for the issues raised in this context. I find this forum to be very polite, helpful, understanding and supportive. The software is very helpful, otherwise I would not have made the investment.

The fact that you can run your system adequately is a good thing and I am glad for you.

However, I run many professional tools/applications for a variety of tasks out of the scope of this forum and audience. I am very confident there are some things that can be addressed that can raise the quality/performance for those who spend serious dollars with the expectation of a good return on investment. Personally I am running a system that has more memory than the entire resource library that I have purchased/licensed, therefore the responsiveness of the application should be almost instant in an ideal world. My system supports more than one user and application environment (Hence the high end hardware) so these issues come to the forefront .

The discussion I believe is to raise the bar so that everyone can benefit (Logos, the Customer and therefore the people that  are touched by the efforts put forth by the end user)

 

 

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