Export to Word... but Not Pages?

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Bob Turner | Forum Activity | Posted: Fri, Mar 25 2011 4:06 AM

So I am liking the new Print/Export feature with one exception... Why is it that I can export to MS Word but not Pages?

I realize I can copy & paste but it would be nice to be able to export automatically to Pages using this feature, especially when there are graphics involved with text.

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Jack Caviness | Forum Activity | Replied: Fri, Mar 25 2011 4:20 AM

Bob Turner:
Why is it that I can export to MS Word but not Pages?

Why not something that can handle Hebrew text, like Mellel? I realize that Logos had a Microsoft-connected beginning, but it is time to recognize that MS Office for Mac is a seriously crippled suite.

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The Rev. Dr. John W. Sias | Forum Activity | Replied: Fri, Mar 25 2011 6:13 AM

I concur wholeheartedly with Jack. I am increasingly frustrated with Word (due to the Hebrew problem) but also a little frustrated with the fact that indentation, etc. are not right when I copy/paste biblical texts into Mellel (due to a different paragraph indentation / tab scheme). Mellel is an important editor for biblical scholarship on Mac, handling Hebrew and also larger documents much better than Word. It is also much more stable than Word 2011, which crashes (for me) all the time.

I have been considering exploring Pages (due to its greater compatibility with Word format) but haven't ascertained its performance for Hebrew and book-length documents.

Posts 228
Stephen | Forum Activity | Replied: Fri, Mar 25 2011 6:38 AM

I would also like to see an export to pages. There is a reason I use a Mac and don't use Microsoft products. I don't know about Pages handeling of hebrew it is the word processor I use. Why make a Mac product if you are going to tie us to Microsoft?

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mab | Forum Activity | Replied: Fri, Mar 25 2011 7:28 AM

Since L4M comes from L4, it's pretty clear why Word got the nod. Maybe the L4M development team would put Pages and Mellel on the to-do/wishlist for a future release when they aren't busy slaying the current crop of coding dragons.

I use Mellel. There's also all the Open Office/Libre Office folks who have ditched Word. My thinking is that if they can do one of these alternatives, they probably could carry most of it over to the others. 

 

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TCBlack | Forum Activity | Replied: Fri, Mar 25 2011 7:30 AM

Michael Ballai:

 

Since L4M comes from L4, it's pretty clear why Word got the nod. Maybe the L4M development team would put Pages and Mellel on the to-do/wishlist for a future release when they aren't busy slaying the current crop of coding dragons.

 

I use Mellel. There's also all the Open Office/Libre Office folks who have ditched Word. My thinking is that if they can do one of these alternatives, they probably could carry most of it over to the others.

 

Michael, I agree with your assessment.  I suggest putting a suitable request on uservoice (http://logos.uservoice.com/forums/42823-logos-bible-software-4) and linking this thread for support.

 

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Posts 216
Dan | Forum Activity | Replied: Fri, Mar 25 2011 8:40 AM

Another vote for Pages!

Posts 191
Jacques | Forum Activity | Replied: Fri, Mar 25 2011 10:10 AM

Another vote, to pick ANY app of your choosing for Export - including Pages!

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Kevin A. Purcell | Forum Activity | Replied: Fri, Mar 25 2011 3:04 PM

Jack Caviness:
MS Office for Mac is a seriously crippled suite

How so? I think it is very good.

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Mike Binks | Forum Activity | Replied: Fri, Mar 25 2011 3:58 PM

Kevin A. Purcell:

Jack Caviness:
MS Office for Mac is a seriously crippled suite

How so? I think it is very good.

I think the test is to compare using Hebrew on the Mac Version and then on the Windows version.

But coming to word processors via !Impression and !Ovation Pro - I just never got on with the way Word decided what I wanted to do.

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Jack Caviness | Forum Activity | Replied: Fri, Mar 25 2011 4:33 PM

Kevin A. Purcell:

Jack Caviness:
MS Office for Mac is a seriously crippled suite

How so? I think it is very good.

In that case, you have not attempted to paste a line of Hebrew text. I cannot even paste Greek from L4 or from Accordance without first pasting it into Text Edit. In a discussion on the Office for Mac forum, an MVP who claimed to have been on design decisions for Office 2011, this lack of ability is deliberate and permanent. That is, MS Office for Mac will never support right-to-left text. He claims there is no money there.

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Kevin A. Purcell | Forum Activity | Replied: Sat, Mar 26 2011 8:04 AM

Jack Caviness:

In that case, you have not attempted to paste a line of Hebrew text. I cannot even paste Greek from L4 or from Accordance without first pasting it into Text Edit. In a discussion on the Office for Mac forum, an MVP who claimed to have been on design decisions for Office 2011, this lack of ability is deliberate and permanent. That is, MS Office for Mac will never support right-to-left text. He claims there is no money there.

You are right. I have never done so until just now. Is it the issue of the right margin? I fixed that with a right click and choosing paragraph. Other than that it looks fine in Word 2011.  It is right to left text.

Posts 69
The Rev. Dr. John W. Sias | Forum Activity | Replied: Sat, Mar 26 2011 8:42 AM

The main issues with Word 2011 are these: (1) the vowel and accent markings are misplaced--depending on the font, often radically so. This has to do with the composition of Unicode characters in right-to-left (RTL) mode. (2) Insertion of RTL text in a body of LTR text (as one might do if citing a bit of Hebrew in a paper) results in total chaos.

Both problems Microsoft has acknowledged in Word/Mac but has not stated plans or interest to fix. In Office/Windows, Hebrew has been usable for some generations (if, indeed, it still is... I checked out with Office 2007).

Hence Mellel and other alternatives.

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Jack Caviness | Forum Activity | Replied: Sat, Mar 26 2011 12:04 PM

Kevin A. Purcell:
 It is right to left text.

But are the words in the correct order? MS Word 2008 will get the characters in each word correct, and the text will appear to be right-to-left, but the individual words are out of order. I have MS Office 2008, but not 2011. When I checked the MS for Mac forums, I found threads saying that 2011 would not support Hebrew text. I would like to be proven wrong in this area, as I have many, many documents in Word format.

Posts 69
The Rev. Dr. John W. Sias | Forum Activity | Replied: Sat, Mar 26 2011 7:14 PM

The words paste in the proper order, but typing the Hebrew in is really unworkable. Typing composed Greek characters also causes very erratic behavior. I regret "upgrading" from 2008 to 2011.

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Jack Caviness | Forum Activity | Replied: Sun, Mar 27 2011 4:14 AM

The Rev. Dr. John W. Sias:
The words paste in the proper order

Well, that is one improvement in 2011. In 2008, the words are not even in correct order.

EDIT: The text pasted into word does not even look like the same words. I copied the selection from L4 Mac 4.3 Beta 1 and pasted into Word 2008 with SBL Hebrew font. I also tried other Hebrew fonts, but Word stubbornly refused to change from SBL Hebrew.

Same text pasted into Mellel. OOps, should have aligned right so the second line would be lined up properly.

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The Rev. Dr. John W. Sias | Forum Activity | Replied: Tue, Apr 19 2011 12:36 PM

Since this discussion has been linked for reference and things have changed a bit, I'll post an update:

Beginning (as far as I can tell) with build 14.1.0 (110310), the major issues I mentioned with Word 2011 for Mac appear to have been fixed, so pasting Hebrew works about as well as it did on Word 2007 for PC. One caveat: Use Ezra SIL. The SBL Hebrew font requires class-based vowel and accent positioning, which Word for Mac does not yet support. Ezra SIL uses a different mechanism to compose the characters, and its mechanism seems to work well enough.

So... not a total solution, and Mellel is still, in my opinion, a better alternative---but at least it's workable.

Also, I'll note, the support for Greek composition seems to have been debugged in 14.1.0.

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Jack Caviness | Forum Activity | Replied: Tue, Apr 19 2011 3:04 PM

The Rev. Dr. John W. Sias:
Beginning (as far as I can tell) with build 14.1.0 (110310), the major issues I mentioned with Word 2011 for Mac appear to have been fixed, so pasting Hebrew works about as well as it did on Word 2007 for PC

Thanks for the update. I will probably update to Office 2011 at some time.

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