Any progress being made in Logos Mac performance?

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Posts 218
Dennis Miller | Forum Activity | Posted: Thu, Apr 28 2011 4:34 AM

It's now been over 6 months since the official launch and all I see is ongoing problems. My own experience is still a slow launching, slow responding application, I even have to log in every time I want to use it now. What can we hope for in the next 6 months? Will we ever see a bug free, optimal performing application before Logos 5 is launched? Though Logos is no longer my primary bible study application I still have many resources I like to use that I don't want to pay to duplicate in the other app but I find even trying to use Logos for secondary studies rather burdensome and slow in comparison. Such a disappointment for a resource I have highly regarded and promoted for so many years and can no longer recommend.

Posts 4
William K Stegemueller | Forum Activity | Replied: Thu, Apr 28 2011 8:42 AM

Dennis,

I feel your pain and I'm with you.  Just out of curiosity, what's your primary Bible Software for Mac?

Posts 50
Fritz R | Forum Activity | Replied: Thu, Apr 28 2011 9:04 AM

agree, i am bogged down with scrolling ..... went back to my paper bible mainly...

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Keep Smiling 4 Jesus :) | Forum Activity | Replied: Thu, Apr 28 2011 9:11 AM

Dennis Miller:
My own experience is still a slow launching, slow responding application

Concur Logos 4 on Mac & PC can take a minute or so to launch; hence tend to keep Logos 4 open.  Caveat: with known memory leaks, finding need to close and open Logos 4.2a SR-5 so Read Aloud and Mark Read work correctly (am updating a Logos 4.3 Beta 3 configuration; if can replicate, plan to post in Mac Beta forum).  Likewise know some menus take more than a second to respond when clicked (e.g. File and Layouts); have learned to click once and wait.

Please elaborate what is slow so adventurous forum users and Logos developers can replicate.  Repeatable slow performance examples are quite helpful for software development; easy to compare before and after response times.  When responsiveness improves dramatically, good reason to smile Big Smile

Dennis Miller:
I even have to log in every time I want to use it now.

Login issue can be fixed.  Can contact Logos technical support => http://www.logos.com/about/contact OR reply to this post with logs using steps in How to Report Bugs in Logos 4 Mac

Dennis Miller:
What can we hope for in the next 6 months?

As a Logos user, personally hoping for substantial feature parity between Mac and PC along with more Logos 4 optimizations for Mac and PC plus some new features and many bug fixes.  Logos 4.3 Beta development cycle has already fixed many Mac bugs, including progress on some known Feature Parity items (primarily gleaned from forum user discussions).  Logos 4.2a on Mac improved feature parity over previous Logos 4.0b on Mac along with some performance improvements.

Dennis Miller:
Will we ever see a bug free, optimal performing application before Logos 5 is launched?

Not know about bug free being realistic for any version of complex software, including Logos.

While Logos 4 Mac lacks optimal performance in places, still usable for Bible Study.  Personally amazed by capability to search thousands of resources; lots to read, learn, and grow.  Thankful Logos 4.2a SR-5 is currently best stable Logos version for Mac; looking forward to more improvements plus Thankful for incredible improvements since early Logos 4 Mac alpha versions.

Also Thankful can run Logos 4 PC in Windows on Mac, wiki Need Logos 4 PC feature? has virtualization tips and native boot option.

Keep Smiling Smile

Posts 226
Kurt Trucksess | Forum Activity | Replied: Thu, Apr 28 2011 9:47 AM

Dennis Miller:

It's now been over 6 months since the official launch and all I see is ongoing problems. My own experience is still a slow launching, slow responding application, I even have to log in every time I want to use it now. What can we hope for in the next 6 months? Will we ever see a bug free, optimal performing application before Logos 5 is launched? Though Logos is no longer my primary bible study application I still have many resources I like to use that I don't want to pay to duplicate in the other app but I find even trying to use Logos for secondary studies rather burdensome and slow in comparison. Such a disappointment for a resource I have highly regarded and promoted for so many years and can no longer recommend.

 

I am sorry you are experiencing these issues.  From my perspective, I am on the beta program for mac and I am not experiencing the issues you identify.  Scrolling is a breeze, things works fine for most items.  It may be my machine.  Macbook Pro i7 with 8gig RAM.  

What machine are you running?  I know logos can be demanding on the CPU and memory.

Dr. Kurt Trucksess www.christ2Rculture.com
Posts 2335
mab | Forum Activity | Replied: Thu, Apr 28 2011 12:07 PM

I do think that one's machine has far more bearing on Logos performance than the software. I have to admit that I look forward more to using Logos on my PC than my Mac even though the only real hardware difference is the dedicated graphics card in the PC. The current Mac version is significantly better than it was when I bought it. I am hoping that it will be at least that much better in the next few months and I can settle in with it for more of the workload.

They need to fix the Notes feature. That's my current grumble. GRRUMBLE!  

Logos' strongest advantage is to be an integrated Bible/Ministry platform that goes where I do. It's getting there and I am excited. 

The mind of man is the mill of God, not to grind chaff, but wheat. Thomas Manton | Study hard, for the well is deep, and our brains are shallow. Richard Baxter

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Jack Caviness | Forum Activity | Replied: Thu, Apr 28 2011 6:06 PM

Dennis Miller:
Though Logos is no longer my primary bible study application

Interestingly enough, with the advent of L4, I moved in the opposite direction. The "other application" you mentioned was formerly my primary Bible Study app, but now I have switched to Logos.

Dennis Miller:
It's now been over 6 months since the official launch and all I see is ongoing problems

Could you provide some more specific information and post logs? The first link in my signature describes the the procedure for doing this. The second link describes a free utility that will automate much of the process.

Michael Ballai:
They need to fix the Notes feature. That's my current grumble. GRRUMBLE!  

I agree 100%.

Posts 218
Dennis Miller | Forum Activity | Replied: Fri, Apr 29 2011 4:28 AM

Jack and Keep Smiling, I am not a Beta Tester, I am a Customer. I should not have to continually be providing feedback and posting logs concerning crashes and problems for a product that was supposed to be ready for market. That is like buying a car that was not completed on the assembly line and having to keep taking it back to the shop until they get all the parts installed and problems fixed that should have been done before it left the factory. We would call that kind of car a lemon.

Just look at the forums, How many topics do you see stating "Logo's is great, and performs like a charm" or "Latest update really improved performance"? No, the majority, and we're talking 90%, are problem after problem, crash after crash, new dissatisfaction with each upgrade attempt and continued poor performance. What difference are my logs and examples going to make it is all already there for those who don't have their head in the sand convinced that what they were sold is the best in the world and working great for them, your probably fans of Biblical Allegory too instead of literal truth.

Keep on convincing yourselves and maybe someday it will all be true but for now I'm sticking with a program with no windows strings attached that runs with the performance a true Mac program should. And Jack, I really don't understand what you see or can do in Logos 4 that cannot be done in the other and much, much faster.

Posts 838
Dewayne Davis | Forum Activity | Replied: Fri, Apr 29 2011 6:24 AM

Dennis Miller:
Jack and Keep Smiling, I am not a Beta Tester, I am a Customer. I should not have to continually be providing feedback and posting logs concerning crashes and problems for a product that was supposed to be ready for market. That is like buying a car that was not completed on the assembly line and having to keep taking it back to the shop until they get all the parts installed and problems fixed that should have been done before it left the factory. We would call that kind of car a lemon.

You are 100% correct. However, it does not appear to be the whole program that is a lemon, since we don't all experience this. Logos for me opens to layout in twenty seconds and changes layouts in ten seconds. There are still a lot of things not implemented in the software. And we all wait, sometimes impatiently, for them to be added/fixed. I would think, or at least hope that your logs and a little work would at least get it pleasantly usable for you.  But if you don't want to be involved in this long Beta process, I sure understand. Many of us here came from Windows and are long time Logos customers. So our patience has behind it a long term relationship that causes us to look past the bumps in the road. I too had moved to the 'other' software when changing to Mac. But my huge previous investments in Logos has given me a compelling reason to move back. The other is indeed much faster. And there are some things it does better/different. But even so, there are more things in my opinion that Logos excels in. God has blessed both companies in their endeavors and that is because each has its own niche of the church to serve. If the 'other' suits you better, that is great and praise God for making it available. After all, if God isn't behind all this, it is just futile and a waste of all our time.

“... every day in which I do not penetrate more deeply into the knowledge of God’s Word in Holy Scripture is a lost day for me. I can only move forward with certainty upon the firm ground of the Word of God.”

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Mike Binks | Forum Activity | Replied: Fri, Apr 29 2011 6:30 AM

Hi Dennis

I (and KS4J) are also customers, just trying to help out those who want to make their version of L4 work a little better on their machines.

I guess your comments are really aimed at Logos management rather than the volunteers who frequent this place just looking to lend a hand. However the tone of your post does come across as an attack on the community. If you don't want help then why post here?

Most people who have few or no problems with L4 Mac never venture near the forum - hence they don't post - they just get on with their work.

You made a comment in your original post that you have to log in every time you start Logos. There is a problem which is a hang over from some of the code that was in one of the Alpha iterations of the program and if you ran that version then it may cause this problem.

Some of the more technically minded can diagnose this from your logs and point you to the solution.

If however you would rather live with the problem that is fine. The help though was freely and generously offered by those seeking to be a good neighbour but who also have no illusions about the state of the software and the improvements needed.

Certainly KS4J is doing no 'convincing of himself' as his record of posts prove. What he did was to reach out in friendship.

 

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Jack Caviness | Forum Activity | Replied: Fri, Apr 29 2011 9:29 AM

Dennis Miller:
Jack, I really don't understand what you see or can do in Logos 4 that cannot be done in the other and much, much faster.

As Mike has said, the participants in this forum who do not have a Logos icon under their avatar are simply fellow customer seeking to assist other customers. I do not intend to engage in a debate with you. However, since you asked, I will give you a few of the reasons I prefer L4 to the other application.

1. The Library Window. Logos provides useful information and an excellent search capability. The other—recently improved—Library window still fall far short of genuine usefulness. I have over 3500 resources, and I want to be able to find one easily.

2. Dynamic Collections.  

3. Speed is paramount on the Bonneville Salt Flats. Everywhere else it is just part of the mix. Have you ever tried "Search All" in the other application? It is slower than L4 and has an inferior display of results. Besides that, you first have to find the word or phrase in a Bible text before you can do "Search All" from the context menu.

4. It is a matter of preference, but I prefer the right click menu in L4

However, I do like the other application's "Copy As" menu, and I use it when I want to copy text from the original language

Now, that was more than I intended to say, and I have only scratched the surface of the reasons I prefer L4 over any other Bible Study application.

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Keep Smiling 4 Jesus :) | Forum Activity | Replied: Fri, Apr 29 2011 10:22 AM

Dennis Miller:
Jack and Keep Smiling, I am not a Beta Tester, I am a Customer.

As a customer, have option to contact Logos technical support => http://www.logos.com/about/contact, who with your permission can remotely connect to your Mac, diagnosis, and repair your Logos 4 login issue.

Personally, I am a Logos user with Many Volunteer Posts (MVP), who is Thankful for many friendly Logos forum discussions.  Along the way I have learned a lot about finding wonderful nuggets to ponder in my Logos library (e.g. using a visual filter to highlight imperative mood in Philippians 4:4-8 that works in many English and Greek Bibles).  Logos 4 has many powerful capabilities that take time to learn, use, and hopefully master.  Wiki has Getting Started with Logos page that has Learning Logos section.  For example, Logos 4 on Mac and PC has 3 menus bit different than many programs on both platforms (e.g. right click on menu items), which took some time and trials to learn.

Personally puzzled by diversity of computer configurations.  On similar Mac & PC computers, Logos 4 is usable for some while frustrating for others.  Several Logos 4 users have shared their usage tips, which are linked in Slow Performance section on Mac Troubleshooting page plus many tips for improving Mac OS X performance.

Dennis Miller:
We would call that kind of car a lemon.

Observation: Colorado and US federal law for lemon product determination requires problem(s) that cannot be fixed after many repair attempts while covered by manufacturer's factory warranty.

Logos has a release early and often approach to software development.  Rather than wait until developers have code that is perfect to ship, Logos ships early releases that are stable with usable features, but incomplete (e.g. printing was not in Logos 4.0a and Logos 4.0b releases on Mac).  Shipping early allows Logos to pay developers and their families (along with rest of company).  As a customer, I look forward to ongoing Logos improvements (unlike a lemon car that cannot be fixed); albeit some fixes span many months (e.g. printing on Mac).  Also appreciate that items used a lot (e.g. scrolling) tend to be fixed before items used less often (e.g. startup time).

Initial stable Logos 4.0a version for Mac had many usable Bible Study capabilities when released in Oct 2010.  Logos 4.2a was released 5 months later (Mar 2010) that included new features (e.g. printing, sentence diagramming, ...) along with several performance optimizations.  From many forum discussions am aware that Logos 4 Mac lacks many Feature Parity items compared to Logos 4 PC.  Based on past user experience, anticipating Logos to improve feature parity between Mac & PC.  As a customer, personally Thankful can choose to participate in Logos 4 Beta Program.  Likewise cognizant that Beta bugginess is not for everyone.

An observation about true Mac program performance: reviewers use long running tasks in various Mac programs as benchmarks to compare capabilities of different Mac models.  With many hours using Logos 4 Mac on 2.8 GHz Quad Core i7 and 2.4 GHz Core 2 Duo iMac's, have experienced Logos 4 Mac being quicker on newer hardware.

 

Edit: looking at Logos Bible Software 4 user voice voting => http://logos.uservoice.com/forums/42823-logos-bible-software-4 noticed # 2 item is Focus on Code/Performance Optimization (with 320 supporters); as a Logos customer, can vote for many improvement ideas.

Keep Smiling Smile

Posts 218
Dennis Miller | Forum Activity | Replied: Wed, May 4 2011 8:39 AM

William K Stegemueller:

Dennis,

I feel your pain and I'm with you.  Just out of curiosity, what's your primary Bible Software for Mac?

 

I answered your question on your profile.

 

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