Inconsistencies in Andersen-Forbes

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Posts 12
Dean Forbes | Forum Activity | Replied: Wed, May 4 2011 6:17 AM

Dave Hooton:

Dean,

 When the (Logos) Text Type is labelled as "Blessing" we don't expect "Cursing" and would certainly prefer to search for these separately, but that could easily be clarified in the current (Logos) implementation.

You are, of course, quite correct. We have tagged 206 blessings/curses. I'll look into dividing them up for our next release, not too big a job.

Dean

Posts 912
David Knoll | Forum Activity | Replied: Wed, May 4 2011 6:59 AM

Dear Mr. Forbes,

 

I wonder if you could explain why several predicates are marked as "joined perfect"  (Deut 1:5, Josh 3:16 Job 20:19) while many other clauses that contain two verbs are split into two predicates (Daniel 9:15, Hos 5:11 and many many more). What is the formal difference between these cases?

 

many thanks,

 

David Knoll

Posts 242
Nielsen Tomazini | Forum Activity | Replied: Wed, May 4 2011 7:34 AM

Dear Mr. Forbes,

First of all, thank you very much for your explanations and for taking your time to interact with us here.

As I wrote in the original post, I was really enjoying using A-F and exploring the text-type tags. Actually, the problem is not to see a text about blessing or curse under the same category. Certainly, by reading the text we can figure out if it is a blessing or a curse. But this kind of resource (with tagging) in a Bible Software is really valuable when we are able to search through its data. And that is where the inconsistencies do not allow me to have confidence in the results. And as such, I can only rely on the searches if I read every single result. Even doing that I would be suspicious if any occurrence was not omitted. 

For instance, if I want to find all the occurrences of Divine Blessings (does not matter if blessing or curse), which begins with KY ("because, for, that"), I would get Gen 3:14 but not Gen 3:17. 

The idea and work of tagging the Hebrew text the way you and Mr. Andersen did is awesome. When I saw the tagging I saw the potential for researching a data that we did not have before. Your explanation, that the primary focus is on syntax, clarifies to me why the divine words towards Eve was not tagged as Divine Blessing as well as the other words (to the serpent and Adam). So, this case is not a matter of inconsistency but of methodology, I understand that, and maybe with the publication of your work, many features in A-F will be clarified.

It is sad that the improvements in the text-type database will take time to be done. But I don't thing there is any resource with text type tagging. So, even if it takes time, please do it!! The Old Testament studies can only gain with more data to be researched.


I need to say that I am quite impressed with your curriculum. 

Physics in Harvard;
Working with Hewlett-Packard in 1971;
Eight patents in cardiac electrophysiology;
Visiting scholar at Stanford;

Wow, really impressive!

Blessings,

 

 

www.aprendalogos.com 
Youtube: AprendaLogos

Posts 242
Nielsen Tomazini | Forum Activity | Replied: Wed, May 4 2011 9:09 AM

David,

I am still not getting it. Could you send me an e-mail? Mine is nielsen tomazini at gmail dot com. No space or dot between my names.
Thank you,

 

www.aprendalogos.com 
Youtube: AprendaLogos

Posts 112
Philip E. Sumpter | Forum Activity | Replied: Wed, May 4 2011 9:40 AM

Nielsen, 

I've just looked at the ones from Ps 3-26 and couldn't find any. I was writing from memory of looking at the superscriptions in general. I'm guessing I made a mistake or I've confused the problem with something else ... sorry for writing without double checking! 

Dean Forbes,

I'm glad to hear to book is still scheduled to come out, I've been waiting for it for quite some time now! This database is the reason I bought logos.

Posts 242
Nielsen Tomazini | Forum Activity | Replied: Wed, May 4 2011 11:44 AM

Philip E. Sumpter:

Nielsen, 

I've just looked at the ones from Ps 3-26 and couldn't find any. I was writing from memory of looking at the superscriptions in general. I'm guessing I made a mistake or I've confused the problem with something else ... sorry for writing without double checking! 

That's fine Philip, thank for checking it out.

Blessings,

 

www.aprendalogos.com 
Youtube: AprendaLogos

Posts 12
Dean Forbes | Forum Activity | Replied: Thu, May 5 2011 6:40 AM

The sort of formation of a compound predicator that you refer to is an instance of what I call "Free Convention" inconsistency in my paper on consistency issues.The human over-reader (Professor Andersen) resorted to it 168 times (119x as a continuous join, 49x as a discontinuous join).   It will certainly be cleaned up as we move into discourse-level analysis. I have put it on my list of interim irritants that we might set right sooner.

Five kinds of inconsistency are discussed, with examples, in:

Forbes, A. D., "The Challenge of Consistency." In Luis Vegas Montaner et al. (eds.), Computer Assisted Research in the 21st Century, (Piscataway, NJ: Gorgias, 2010), 111-126.

This paper also provides statistical estimates of the incidence of inconsistency in AF v0.9 (overall about 0.1%) based on my concept of surrogate texts.

Dean

P.S.: We read this forum when it touches on our work. We may not respond to comments very often, but they do affect our scheduling of tasks. We would ask that contributors make sure that their comments are based on our latest release and that they do their best to insure that their assertions are valid. We want to be responsive to user needs, but can ill afford to waste our time dealing with false alarms.

Posts 28010
Forum MVP
Dave Hooton | Forum Activity | Replied: Tue, Aug 14 2012 10:22 PM

Nielsen Tomazini:
In the Hebrew Bible: Andersen-Forbes Analyzed Text, in Gen 3:14-19, it is God speaking to the serpent, Eve and Adam. See that God's words to the serpent and to Adam are tagged as "Divine Blessing," while for Eve the words are tagged as "Divine Judgment." Why is that? 

These anomalies appear to be resolved in the recent update of the Andersen-Forbes resources.

Dave
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