Liddel & Scott OR BDAG

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Bootjack | Forum Activity | Posted: Wed, May 4 2011 8:18 AM

I've not either of these Greek Grammers, so was wondering if one could post a screen shot of both. For example, let's look a word like "glory" - will it be possible for someone to post up a screen shot of both Grammars on this word. This will be appreciated. 

Also, would you recommend either of these for one who cannot read Greek and is still trying to master the English language?!?  :-}

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Rich DeRuiter | Forum Activity | Replied: Wed, May 4 2011 8:36 AM

Bootjack:

I've not either of these Greek Grammers, so was wondering if one could post a screen shot of both. For example, let's look a word like "glory" - will it be possible for someone to post up a screen shot of both Grammars on this word. This will be appreciated. 

Also, would you recommend either of these for one who cannot read Greek and is still trying to master the English language?!?  :-}

First, these aren't grammars, these are lexicons. Second, they are not indexed by English words (e.g. "glory") but by Greek words (e.g. "δόξα").

Would I recommend them to one who cannot read Greek? No. However I might recommend them to someone who is learning Greek.

Of the two BDAG is by far the better lexicon. It's also much more expensive. Depending on the base package you have, you may do just as well (for now) using one of the lexicons you already have. Which base package do you have?

 Help links: WIKI;  Logos 6 FAQ. (Phil. 2:14, NIV)

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tom | Forum Activity | Replied: Wed, May 4 2011 9:15 AM

I agree with Richard.  

If you cannot read Greek, these two resources will not help you.

I use another program when I am studying the Greek/Hebrew text because it is a lot faster than L4. (And I had the other program before I learned about Logos) Here is a screen shot of δόξα in BDAG using the other Biblical program.  FYI... it will take several screen shots to display the entire entry for δόξα. 

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John Nerdue | Forum Activity | Replied: Wed, May 4 2011 9:29 AM

I don't have the LSJ but I do have the BDAG and the LS Abridged version. Below are two screen shots.

 

 

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John Nerdue | Forum Activity | Replied: Wed, May 4 2011 10:49 AM

Here is a side by side screen shot

http://www.logos.com/images/Screenshots/lsj-prod-01.jpg

Posts 732
Bootjack | Forum Activity | Replied: Wed, May 4 2011 1:32 PM

Thank you everyone for the helpful info. This is much appreciated. I have Scholars Silver. By the way, let's suppose I have a Gk Lexicon / Dictionary opened and linked with BDAG, would this not bring up that particular word in BDAG? Point being (or question I guess) would this particular Lexicon then not be of some help, or would you still advise against it? Again, thanks for the help(s). 

Posts 453
Mike S. | Forum Activity | Replied: Wed, May 4 2011 3:01 PM

Bootjack:
Also, would you recommend either of these for one who cannot read Greek and is still trying to master the English language?

I would recommend you stay away from both. They could actually be more misleading then helpful.

What I would suggest would be ONE of the following depending on how much time you want to spend: 

I own the former and the videos spend substantial time talking about both english grammar and why BDAG or L&S would not be the best choice for you. They also demonstrate what resources can be helpful depending on your goal and level of skill.

 

Posts 1142
Juanita | Forum Activity | Replied: Wed, May 4 2011 3:04 PM

Hi Bootjack,

Have you worked through the user created videos by Mark Barnes or Camp Logos Live by Morris P.?

I know your particular question relates to BDAG or LSJ...given one of the two, BDAG.   If you are new to Logos, then going with Camp Logos would work wonders for your overall understanding of L4 and your questions and more may be answered, then.  I have benefited greatly from them!

God Bless

 

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Bootjack | Forum Activity | Replied: Wed, May 4 2011 3:15 PM

Thank you Mike for your good advice. Before one hurls out nearly 300.00, that one therefore does go to the counselors for just that - advice. I mean, three hundred dollars does represent a lot of Tim Horton's!!!

Joan, I've gone through some of Mark Barnes videos - not Camp Logos though. I wonder how many times a normal person has to go through those to catch on to most of the material???   :-) 

Richard, you had asked what base package I have - I'll be interested to see why you asked that and what further advice you have.  

Thanks again people for your coming in on this particular thread. Help / advice is always appreciated. 

Posts 1821
Rick | Forum Activity | Replied: Wed, May 4 2011 3:47 PM

For someone who has no original languages training, such as myself, I really enjoy "The Complete Words Studies Dictionaries" by Zodhiates. They just seem to do more for me than the more complex lexicons such as BDAG and Halot. You can find them here: http://www.logos.com/products/search?q=complete+word+study+dictionary

The publisher, AMG, is having a "webinar" tonight to show their application and use during studies. The dictionaries in my opinion are the backbone of the collection. I for one am very excited about this demonstration. It is actually for a bigger, yet affordable, collection called AMG Bible Essentials.

I am sure that these are too basic for some, but as I said, I enjoy them myself. To register for and watch the webinar for free to see if you think the dictionaries would work for you visit: http://www.amgbibleessentials.com/ 

Note: AMG Bible Essentials collection was made for Libronix, if you  would decide to buy just the dictionaries from Logos everything should be just fine.

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Rich DeRuiter | Forum Activity | Replied: Wed, May 4 2011 4:00 PM

Bootjack:
Richard, you had asked what base package I have - I'll be interested to see why you asked that and what further advice you have.  

I asked because I wanted to know which Greek lexicons you already had. Scholars Silver gives you excellent tools that will take you far beyond what a beginner in Greek would need (IMHO), and make me even less inclined to recommend Liddel & Scott (you know Scholars Silver already has L&S Intermediate Greek Lexicon, right?). I'd recommend using the lexicons you already have. If you have used them and find them inadequate, somehow let us know how you find them inadequate and maybe we can help.

From the Scholars Silver package I would highly recommend the lexicons by Liddel & Scott (Intermediate), Louw-Nida, and Swanson. Going beyond what these very good lexicons provide would only benefit you if you want to move deeper into the subtler aspects of Greek studies.

 Help links: WIKI;  Logos 6 FAQ. (Phil. 2:14, NIV)

Posts 732
Bootjack | Forum Activity | Replied: Wed, May 4 2011 5:11 PM

Thank you Rick for this. I notice I have in the Silver's Pak, the Zodhiates Complete Word Study Bible but not the Dictionaries. Would there be much overlap between the Word Study Bible & the Dictionaries or no? 

Richard, I'm aware of the Intermediate Greek Lexicons. Reading what you've had to say and others, I'm adequate with what I've got up to this point, although the Zodhiates Dictionaries might interest me. If you've got advice regarding these, please fire away. Thanks again for your good help!!!  

Posts 1821
Rick | Forum Activity | Replied: Wed, May 4 2011 5:37 PM

Bootjack:
I notice I have in the Silver's Pak, the Zodhiates Complete Word Study Bible but not the Dictionaries.

From my experience, in Logos 4 it is best to prioritize the dictionaries very high (I have them as the highest) and use them with a version of the Bible that is in interlinear format. Right click the word to do a word study and then choose Lemma. This will either bring up the The Complete Word Study Dictionary Old or New Testament, whichever one is applicable.

In the Libronix version the Bible included in line numbers (not sure if they were Strong's numbers or not) but in Logos 4 those numbers do not appear, meaning that since The Complete Word Study Bible is not an interlinear, it does not work well with prioritization. When you right click in the Complete Word Study Bible you do not get the Lemma option.

The only advantage that the Complete Word Study Bible has is its notes. Other than that, in Logos 4 it really is not much more than a KJV study Bible. It gives you notes, word type (noun, verb etc), but that is about it.

For more info on the removing of the numbers  and a possible work around see this thread: http://community.logos.com/forums/t/11620.aspx

Edit: They are Strong's numbers that no longer appear. You can right click on a word, select "Strong's" and you will see a few of you highest prioritized dictionaries that support Strong's numbers. Once again, in my case they are The Complete Word Study Bible Dictionaries.

Posts 732
Bootjack | Forum Activity | Replied: Wed, May 4 2011 6:28 PM

Thanks Rick - I do not have the Zodhiates Dictionaries OT/NT - just the Study Bible. These Dictionaries are something that I could consider. If someone else has suggestions regarding these, I'll appreciate the feedback. Thanks!!! 

Posts 242
Lankford Oxendine | Forum Activity | Replied: Thu, May 5 2011 11:28 PM

Mike,

I'm confused by your statement. I just purchased the Learn to use Greek and Hebrew DVDs and read somewhere that the BDAG and CHALOT were strongly suggested for this series.  Are you saying the series discourages the use of these resources?  I have the Silver package and purchased BDAG for use with the DVDs.  Should I get a refund?  Thanks!

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Keep Smiling 4 Jesus :) | Forum Activity | Replied: Fri, May 6 2011 12:41 AM

Lankford Oxendine:

I'm confused by your statement. I just purchased the Learn to use Greek and Hebrew DVDs and read somewhere that the BDAG and CHALOT were strongly suggested for this series.  Are you saying the series discourages the use of these resources?  I have the Silver package and purchased BDAG for use with the DVDs.  Should I get a refund?  Thanks!

The 3rd Hebrew video (word study) provides insight about CHALOT along with other Hebrew lexicons and dictionaries (including when to use or avoid).

Refund option: discuss base package upgrade since Scholar's Platinum includes BDAG plus Robertson's "Grammar of the Greek New Testament in the Light of Historical Research"  Also Scholar's Gold includes The United Bible Societies' Old Testament Handbook Series (29 vols.) and The United Bible Societies' New Testament Handbook Series (20 vols.), which discuss what is important in a passage for translation (along with cross cultural insights).

Forums Announcing New Logos Video Tools: Learn Biblical Greek and Hebrew with Logos and Learn Greek and Hebrew DVD mention BDAG with videos.

Blog discusses recent lexicon update => Revised Edition of the Lexham Analytical Lexicon to the Greek New Testament , which is now my # 1 Greek lexicon, can hover on Louw-Nida numbers for contextual glosses (with all verse references).  My top 5 Greek Lexicons include BDAG for extensive range of meaning (right click option choice).

Thankful for Bible Word Study (BWS) guide that can show translations across many Bible versions.

Keep Smiling Smile

Posts 249
Giovanni Baggio | Forum Activity | Replied: Sat, May 7 2011 11:26 AM

Lankford Oxendine:

Mike,

I'm confused by your statement. I just purchased the Learn to use Greek and Hebrew DVDs and read somewhere that the BDAG and CHALOT were strongly suggested for this series.  Are you saying the series discourages the use of these resources?  I have the Silver package and purchased BDAG for use with the DVDs.  Should I get a refund?  Thanks!

Yes, Mike's statement is confusing -- so here's me trying to figure out his statement: 1) He either meant to say "stay away from those two (BDAG and L&S) because you don't know any greek or 2) He wasn't paying attention, because those videos actually encourage both BDAG and Halot; in fact, those are the main ones used as reference in the videos and if you know how to use those 2 you will certainly know how to use L&S.  So I will give Mike the benefit of a doubt by saying he meant the former and not the latter.

 

GB

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