What about the graphical query?

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This post has 68 Replies | 5 Followers

Posts 418
davidphillips | Forum Activity | Replied: Fri, Nov 20 2009 6:48 PM

Bob,

That is great news! I'm looking forward to it Smile

Posts 26699
Forum MVP
Dave Hooton | Forum Activity | Replied: Fri, Nov 20 2009 9:37 PM

Bob Pritchett:

At ETS we got to talk to a graphical query user in person, who made a compelling case for some improvements in our non-syntax morph searching. We'll work on improving this soon, though I can't yet say if it'll be the old graphical query or something newer (and better!).

This will be most welcome!

Thanks, Bob.

Dave
===

Windows 10 & Android 8

Posts 709
Russ Quinn | Forum Activity | Replied: Sat, Nov 21 2009 8:08 AM

Bob Pritchett:

 

We'll work on improving this soon, though I can't yet say if it'll be the old graphical query or something newer (and better!).

 

If the implementation of the new datasheet view of morphological results in the 4a beta is an indication of things to come, I am greatly encouraged.

I love the drag and drop reordering. Very, very nice!

Posts 5337
Kevin Becker | Forum Activity | Replied: Sat, Nov 21 2009 1:31 PM

Bob Pritchett:

 

At ETS we got to talk to a graphical query user in person, who made a compelling case for some improvements in our non-syntax morph searching. We'll work on improving this soon, though I can't yet say if it'll be the old graphical query or something newer (and better!).

Thanks for the feedback on this!

Excellent! Thanks for update. As always it's encouraging to hear what's coming down the pike.

Posts 1956
Donovan R. Palmer | Forum Activity | Replied: Sat, Nov 21 2009 11:29 PM

Bob Pritchett:
At ETS we got to talk to a graphical query user in person, who made a compelling case for some improvements in our non-syntax morph searching. We'll work on improving this soon, though I can't yet say if it'll be the old graphical query or something newer (and better!).

Yes

Posts 33
Peter Gurry | Forum Activity | Replied: Fri, Jan 1 2010 10:07 PM

Excellent news! I too would love to see a graphical morph search engine reinstated.

I haven't used the v3.0 graphical search engine myself, but I have worked with your competitor's and I found it very easy to use.

Posts 314
Steven L. Spencer | Forum Activity | Replied: Fri, Jan 8 2010 5:37 PM

I'm believing that within a year, Logos4 will be the undisputed King of Bible-software.  Guess I just believe in Logos and truly think Bob's vision is to accomplish just that--Produce the very best Bible-software program in the world!  As I said in another post, I am liking L4 more and more! Blessings to Bob and all the folks at LOGOS !

Posts 6
Harold A. Kime | Forum Activity | Replied: Sun, Feb 14 2010 4:04 PM

I too rely on the graphical query editor for Greek classes.  One common searching strategy I use is to search for morph examples that use the vocabulary from Mounce.  I use the word list option in the graphical query editor to cut and paste in the vocab I want.  Then I use a Ref Morph to set the morph criteria and then I link them as the same.  In a matter of seconds I have the list of verses to go over in class.

I also can't seem to figure out syntax queries to accomplish what I can describe easily with a graphical morph query.  For instance, I wanted to find all instances of predicate adjectives that precede the subject nominative and have no verb.  It took a few seconds using the GQE and was visually easy to follow.  My only false positives related to constructs like πας.  I decided to try to perform the same using an OpenText syntax search.  I began by opening in OpenText Clause Analyzer one of the verses returned from GQE search.  I mimicked the query after that verse layout.  It took about 10 tries, mainly because I don't really understand the "Immediate child" concept yet.  When I finally turned them all off, I got a list of 12 verse, as opposed to the 30+ true hits using GQE.  Some were the same, some were different.  On top of that, I really cannot even explain what it did, why it found a few GQE did not and why it missed so many.

 

Posts 352
Mike & Rachel Aubrey | Forum Activity | Replied: Sun, Feb 14 2010 5:10 PM

HaroldAKime:
For instance, I wanted to find all instances of predicate adjectives that precede the subject nominative and have no verb.

Try this in Cascadia. If you want to see εἰμί & γίνομαι clauses in there just remove the "Verbal Complement" tag from the last "Not Present" Clause Function.

EDITED TO CHANGE PICTURE.

Also, Harold, if you could post the exact Opentext.org search that you performed, we might be able to work through why you received the results that you did. The search above gave me 133 hits.

Posts 6
Harold A. Kime | Forum Activity | Replied: Tue, Feb 16 2010 5:06 AM

I replicated your search and it looks very good!  Thanks,

Concerning my OpenText search, I created it in Logos 3.0 but did not save it.  So, I tried to recreate it in Logos 4.0 (below).  It returns 66 items but they are not correct.  It seems that I need to have both components coming off of Clause1 but I cannot get the second component to link with Clause1. 

Also, can do the following with Morph or Syntax searches I as I did in the GQE?

  • quickly paste a list of Lemma for a search
  • share my searches (not just picture of them) with my students

Thanks for the help! 

Posts 5337
Kevin Becker | Forum Activity | Replied: Tue, Feb 16 2010 5:20 AM

Click (and hold) clause component 1 and drop it on Clause component 2, that should attach it to Clause one.

Posts 352
Mike & Rachel Aubrey | Forum Activity | Replied: Tue, Feb 16 2010 4:24 PM

HaroldAKime:
Concerning my OpenText search, I created it in Logos 3.0 but did not save it.  So, I tried to recreate it in Logos 4.0 (below).  It returns 66 items but they are not correct.  It seems that I need to have both components coming off of Clause1 but I cannot get the second component to link with Clause1. 

Yes, bot components need to be coming off Clause 1. As for other problems with false hits, you're also going to need to add:

Clause Component
Clause Category = Predicator -- NOT PRESENT

if you want to specify to the database that you want verbless clauses.

With those adjustments, I get 69 hits -- they all look okay. I'd be curious about the difference between the two search results...

Here's what I did:

Clause --> Clause Component

Clause Category = Verb NOT PRESENT

    --> Clause Component --> Word Group --> Head Term --> Word (Adjective, Nominative)

Clause Category = Complement

    --> Clause Component -->Word Group --> Head Term --> Word (Noun, Nominative)

Clause Category = Subject

HaroldAKime:

Also, can do the following with Morph or Syntax searches I as I did in the GQE?

  • quickly paste a list of Lemma for a search
  • share my searches (not just picture of them) with my students

I'm not sure. It's not something I've tried to do. I don't think there's a way to quickly paste a list of Lemma, but in the most recent Beta version, we're testing a feature that very nicely will sort by Lemma (or just about anything else you can think of). It's incredibly handy and I am really excited about it.

As for sharing searches, I don't know. My guess is "No" because of the new system for managing files is less transparent, but I haven't fiddled with it at all, so I really can't say for sure.

Posts 9
Paul Gibbs | Forum Activity | Replied: Sat, Mar 20 2010 11:34 AM

Really need a better search interface than the text-entry search window. Something similar to the Syntax Search tool, but for straight NA27 morphology/construction searches.

I'm boggled that more people aren't speaking up on this. I guess I'll just keep using BW 6.0 until this is done.

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Forum MVP
Dave Hooton | Forum Activity | Replied: Sat, Mar 20 2010 4:38 PM

Paul Gibbs:

Really need a better search interface than the text-entry search window. Something similar to the Syntax Search tool, but for straight NA27 morphology/construction searches.

I'm boggled that more people aren't speaking up on this. I guess I'll just keep using BW 6.0 until this is done.

There definitely are concerns and you could search the forum to see those threads. I suspect many are still using L3 for morphological searches.

Dave
===

Windows 10 & Android 8

Posts 673
Jim | Forum Activity | Replied: Tue, Apr 27 2010 10:23 AM

David B Phillips:
If you have a specific question about how to search for something, post it here!

I'm not very experienced at the morph  & graphical queries, but want to learn more so I want to take you up on your offer of help regarding a recent topic I was researching.

I want to search the entire NA27 for "the faith", that is an article followed by the noun where they agree in case and number ( I think all possibilities are singular) while the set can be any case. The article should be say within 2 or 3 words of the noun. (Question: when you say WITHIN 3 words, is that count inclusive of the two words being specified, thus allowing only one intervening word or does that allow 2 intervening words?)

Thanks.

Have a great day,
jmac

Posts 4508
Robert Pavich | Forum Activity | Replied: Tue, Apr 27 2010 11:14 AM

Jim:

I want to search the entire NA27 for "the faith", that is an article followed by the noun where they agree in case and number ( I think all possibilities are singular) while the set can be any case. The article should be say within 2 or 3 words of the noun. (Question: when you say WITHIN 3 words, is that count inclusive of the two words being specified, thus allowing only one intervening word or does that allow 2 intervening words?)

Jim,

This did it for me:

 

lemma:ὁ@D?S BEFORE  2 words lemma:πίστις@N?S

 

Morph search in NA27; articles that are singular before two words "pistis" that is also a singular noun.

If you have beta you can sort them in analysis view by case....

what you don't get from this is the "case agreement thing"

You could also do it like this:

lemma:ὁ@DNS BEFORE  2 words lemma:πίστις@NNS (For nominative)

And do it for all of the cases and have a separate passage list for each or put them into a spread sheet...

Robert Pavich

For help go to the Wiki: http://wiki.logos.com/Table_of_Contents__

Posts 5337
Kevin Becker | Forum Activity | Replied: Tue, Apr 27 2010 11:38 AM

Jim:
(Question: when you say WITHIN 3 words, is that count inclusive of the two words being specified, thus allowing only one intervening word or does that allow 2 intervening words?)

WITHIN 3 Words allows 2 intervening words to exist.

I checked this by running this search with WITHIN 2 and WITHIN 3 and created passage lists for both. I then subtracted the WITHIN 2 results from the WITHIN 3 results and got these results

Hope this helps.

EDIT: I can't remember if you're running the Beta. Passage lists are from the 4.0c Beta if you didn't know that already.

Posts 418
davidphillips | Forum Activity | Replied: Tue, Apr 27 2010 2:10 PM

Jim:
that is an article followed by the noun where they agree in case and number

In order to specify that there is agreement with case and number, a syntax search can be used:

 

Word 1 is set to agree with word 2 in both case and number

I get 101 results with this search. The benefit of a syntax search over a simple morphological search in this case is that you can make sure the article is actually governing the noun.

Posts 673
Jim | Forum Activity | Replied: Tue, Apr 27 2010 3:04 PM

David B Phillips:
In order to specify that there is agreement with case and number, a syntax search can be used:

Thank you for your diagram. I tried to duplicate it but could only create Clause 1 after that , I couldn't make anything that matches yours so I'm lost.

Have a great day,
jmac

Posts 3578
steve clark | Forum Activity | Replied: Tue, Apr 27 2010 3:11 PM

Jim:
Thank you for your diagram. I tried to duplicate it but could only create Clause 1 after that , I couldn't make anything that matches yours so I'm lost.

tried to duplicate it too .

Found i needed Opentext.org (as Anderson Forbes is the default)

with default Anderson Forbes (No Clause Component avail.)

 

with OpenText.org

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