Has anyone used the handout guide and what did you think of it?
Thomas...what do you think?
There ought to be an easy way to change the translation on the first page to a different one without having to back out.
In the white space at the end of the last column, there ought to be the option to add the word "Notes:" or even to add in your own information.
Handouts are a work in progress. This would be a good place to put suggestions that Logos developers can use to help them.
Some people (Thomas do I hear your Amen?) are not pleased with them at this stage. Let's not just rag on them. Think of how to improve them.
Chris
Philip... please don't get Thomas started on the handouts... it sends him into the "Cloud." I think I read somewhere that Thomas was praying that his handouts would get lost in the "Cloud." or was it that he was hoping his handouts would fall out of the clouds like manna... all the same... best to say that the Handouts are a work in progress... love the clippings file!!!!
Jim
There ought to be an easy way to change the translation on the first page to a different one without having to back out. In the white space at the end of the last column, there ought to be the option to add the word "Notes:" or even to add in your own information.
You can add your own information. Click the link "Add Blank Item" and type in what you want. You can also leave it blank and drag it in order to leave spaces where you want.
Thomas...what do you think? Philip... please don't get Thomas started on the handouts... it sends him into the "Cloud." I think I read somewhere that Thomas was praying that his handouts would get lost in the "Cloud." or was it that he was hoping his handouts would fall out of the clouds like manna... all the same... best to say that the Handouts are a work in progress... love the clippings file!!!! Jim
Thomas only cares because he sees the potential. I just couldn't resist.There are a couple things that are a work in progress but I'm glad they released now. within a couple of months these works in progress will be further along and we will have an even better product then we have now, which is the best Bible software out there by far.
Clippings are great!
This actually is a good base for something I already have in progress - a database of Bible study questions so that one can build one's own Bible Study. With it current functionality, it has limited personal use but great potential.
I've not yet tried to change the default style - the Logos selection has little aesthetic appeal.
I'd like the option to leave a wide right margin for people to enter notes. It may be currently possible - I haven't played with it that much.
Why Thank you Philp, I thought you'd never ask.
Handouts have progressed far since Beta 1. - but not far enough. I might as well state my business and then let this be a permanent link. [8-)]
Initially as the beta testers all know, one of the worst problems was all the extraneous information that was added. Thankfully this had improved on a major scale. Type in a passage in 1 Timothy and you're no longer getting Jesus' family tree by default.
Yay Tagging! [y]
However, if I type in 1 Peter 1:22-2:3 I'm still getting "Flowers blossoming" "A body preserved in ash from MT Vesuvius" Cacao beans, Samara, Rice and lots of other unrelated items. And these are what's automatically forced onto the page? Now I have to try and get rid of them in order to put what I want on there. 1. passage, and 1 crossword.
Good luck! You can't just drag it away, you have to replace it with a massive blank item full of blank returns or delete them one by one.
Fortunately speed has improved, it only takes about 7-15 seconds to delete an item now - but that's still too slow. Handouts need to be optimized.
This one has shown up periodically in the beta Forum and it remains an issue.
Bob has already commented regarding resizing content:
We aren't going to offer manual editing of thedocument. A) It's a lot of code, and there are lots of better tools.(Word, Publisher, InDesign, Illustrator, Quark, etc.) The point is tomake something quick and easy; if you want to be the graphic artist --which is fine and legitimate -- we're the wrong tool.. --Handouts driving me crazy! - Beta Forums
I do understand his answer and I even accept itas it relates to resizing content. But I keep coming up with picturesthat could use a good resizing. So I'm just putting this one in with asigh of resignation.
Originally they had a checkbox that you had to tick/untick in order to remove or add an item. The only problem is that every time you removed an item another would pop right back up in it's place. Now they've done away with the tickbox and gave us a "grabby" by which we can reorder the forced information. but until you figure out how to add a blank item and then put blank lines in it you still can't just get rid of stuff without deleting them because something else will pop up in it's place. Using a blank item full of blank lines to fix it is known as a kludge.
The single biggest key to fixing most of what's wrong with handouts is to not select anything by default.
These very related issues are the majority of what's wrong with handouts. Handouts should start with one blank page and a collection of stuff youcan add on the left. Then it should expand to as many pages asnecessary to fit the stuff.
Let me say that one more time: Handouts should start with one Blank page and a collection of stuff youcan add on the left. Then it should expand to as many pages asnecessary to fit the stuff.
I feel that it is fundamentally a mistake to make me take information away by default.
They do not appropriately anticipate what I want on there. Every handout I've created I've had to remove everything (Except the scripture passage) and then add what I wanted. I just flat out don't believe these should be pre-filled. Sadly this isn't likely to change, because the Philosophy behind it according to Bob was that it would "always be ready to print."
I contend that being full of the wrong information and requiring a kludge to fix it is NOT ready to print. Always ready to print is NOT the same as full. Flip it around, justbecause a page is full of information doesn't mean it's the rightinformation. Less is more. A single word find and the passage shouldbe enough but I have to create a blank section and add about a dozenlines to "make it ready to print." Why not let blank be ready toprint? Then at least I can add what needs added.
Fix handouts:
I might as well state my business and then let this be a permanent link.
Wow. Are you thinking of submitting that for your dissertation?
Doctorate in whine-ology?
Thomas,
I have spent the past couple of days trying to make a useful handout to no avail, this feature is not baked in my opinion.
If this is the final design, I will not be using this feature.
God bless you and keep you,Ken
Note: From my perspective (I have been a SW Engineer for 30 years) - Logos 4 is not bad; though, it needs some work.
Technical SW ratings: not ready, not bad, works as intended, good, great, changes the world
Ken I appreciate that feedback, it echo's everything I've been saying from the start.
Ken I appreciate that feedback, it echo's everything I've been saying from the start. I agree, do you have specific suggestions how this might be accomplished, maybe a mockup? I know Logos listens, and with 30 years of experience you have some background for a good suggestion here.
I agree, do you have specific suggestions how this might be accomplished, maybe a mockup? I know Logos listens, and with 30 years of experience you have some background for a good suggestion here.
I need to play with it some more and learn more about what is available in Logos 4 as a whole; I am also trying to take into consideration the vision of the developers (as described on the forums). So far, I don't have an exact recommendation; though, the wheels are turning (the little mouse in my head)
I have been playing with handouts for the better part of the day as I was thinking of having an additional "more detailed" handout for those interested for my sermon on Sunday. I too have a couple of suggestions:
1) I agree with Thomas' dissertation - don't auto fill; but, DO have suggestions of related information.
2) Allow for the formatting of the layout, to move things around on the handout. I have the Scripture in one column and am trying to get the Sermon Notes fill-in in the other. However, because they are automatically sized (even though I'm using a picture) I cannot get the columns to work. So, I'm going to end up cutting and pasting if I ever put this together through another program.
3) Allow the import of other pictures/diagrams for the handout. So if I have a jpeg on my computer I can copy it in (for example: our churches logo art).
God Bless!
John
John,
I really like your suggestion for #3. I don't at all mind the Logos icon on the bottom of the handouts, but it would sure be nice if the top left corner had our church's logo.
I also agree with the melding of Thomas' post and John's #3 point...
I have enjoyed reading the comments and observations in this thread concerning the Handouts I especially liked the comments on unwanted content when creating a handout as well as adding and deleting content in the handout. My problem is somewhat different.For some reason, whenever I try to create a new Handout, the only content added is the Scripture passage and the Wordfind puzzle. Noyhinf else. Clicking add to add content shows none available. Any ideas?
Michael
When you click add to add the content you can then search by keyword or bible reference to find out what else is available.
Also, have you finished indexing? until you finish indexing not everything will show up.
I must be doing something wrong. For instance, I just tried again to create a handout, this time on Mark 11:12-19. The handout initually created contains only the scripture and a wordsearch puzzle. I clicked add to add new content and there was none shown initually. I typed Bethany in search box and got nothing in return. I typed the scripture reference again and it returned only the scripture text and the wordsearch again. I tried a search on "fig: and "fig tree" to no avail. What am I doing wrong. I have tried this to no avail on both of my systems.
Can you give me a walk-through on creating a handout for Romans 1:1-7 which is another one I tried to no avail? I would really appreciate it.
I'm not sure you need a walkthrough. As I read your description it sounds like you're doing everything you should. But it also sounds like you're missing some common resources like Biblical people, Infographics for example.
What library do you have? Is it an L3 library and you just did the minimal crossgrade? If that's the case that would explain the lack of extra "stuff".
Let's settle this before I build a walkthrough. I want to, but I don't want to waste your time.
I want a walkthrough. This I've gotta see.
Me too, please Thomas...
In a handout I would like to be able to insert my marked up text, including highlights and underlinings and notes.
I gave up on the handouts two weeks ago. (beta or no beta, I have a life).
When I want a Word search puzzle I fire up L3 and copy and paste into Word.
Its still not perfect but at least it works.
I can live without all the fancy styles/backgrounds and I can usually make something in under three minutes..
And I know it will print properly.
This feature should have waited in line behind Sermon Files, PBB's and a few other things like "optimization."
It's not fair to the developers, Logos' reputation, or the blood pressure readings of the beta-testers..
my "two cents"
Steve
I want a walkthrough. This I've gotta see. Me too, please Thomas...
Heh you guys are turning into trollbait. I'll try to put one together after my sermons for Sunday are done.
I'm not sure you need a walkthrough. As I read your description it sounds like you're doing everything you should. But it also sounds like you're missing some common resources like Biblical people, Infographics for example. What library do you have? Is it an L3 library and you just did the minimal crossgrade? If that's the case that would explain the lack of extra "stuff". Let's settle this before I build a walkthrough. I want to, but I don't want to waste your time.
In L3 I have the Pastor's Library and the basic Scolars Library (not Silver or Gold). Yes, I appear to be missing Biblical People, Places and Things as well as Lectionaries. Will upgrading to the Scholars version in L4 (probrably a pipe dream as I have been in the hospital 5 times this year and all my financial resources are dedicated to keeping the wolf from the door) give me what I need? Do you have any idea what other tools of resources I might gain by upgtading?
Even though my problem appears to be due to using the free download of the L4 engine instead of the one that comes with the upgrade, I still would appeciate a walkthrough to get an idea what I might eventually be able to do with handouts.
Thanks,
In L3 I have the Pastor's Library and the basic Scolars Library (not Silver or Gold).
ill upgrading to the Scholars version in L4 (probrably a pipe dream as I have been in the hospital 5 times this year and all my financial resources are dedicated to keeping the wolf from the door) give me what I need? Do you have any idea what other tools of resources I might gain by upgtading?
Check out http://www.logos.com/upgrade to see what your personal upgrade price will be, as well as to consult a chart on package differences. Note especially on that chart the "NEW" flags under Scholars which will tell you what resources are new to that particular level collection . In other words the "NEW" tags under scholars will inform you what you'll get new in exchange for your upgrade price.
I'll work on a handout walkthrough for you. (and for Philip, Robert and Damian's raw amusement.)
Would you like to see a particular passage?
I would like to see you do a genealogy.
In L3 I have the Pastor's Library and the basic Scolars Library (not Silver or Gold). Um... Did you buy them both, or upgrade from PL to Scholars? At any rate if you have an L3 collection that will explain the diffrences you're seeing. ill upgrading to the Scholars version in L4 (probrably a pipe dream as I have been in the hospital 5 times this year and all my financial resources are dedicated to keeping the wolf from the door) give me what I need? Do you have any idea what other tools of resources I might gain by upgtading?Well it depends on what you need. If you need what's in infographics and in the diffrences then yes. Check out http://www.logos.com/upgrade to see what your personal upgrade price will be, as well as to consult a chart on package differences. Note especially on that chart the "NEW" flags under Scholars which will tell you what resources are new to that particular level collection . In other words the "NEW" tags under scholars will inform you what you'll get new in exchange for your upgrade price. I'll work on a handout walkthrough for you. (and for Philip, Robert and Damian's raw amusement.) Would you like to see a particular passage?
I'll work on a handout walkthrough foryou. (and for Philip, Robert and Damian's raw amusement.)
This simple handout took me at least 15 minutes, I edited most of that out. Optimize, optimize, optimize.
8081.Logos4 -Handouts.swf
Thomas,I bought bith L3 collections at different times, retail nor upgtads.I would like to see the walkthrough on something like Rom. 1:1-7 which ahppens ro be what i'm studying at present.Thanks,Michael
Let me know if you have any questions though.
Oh, Sorry Michael. I did the Luke one before I noticed your post. Let me know if you have any questions though.
Oh, Sorry Michael. I did the Luke one before I noticed your post.
Wow. A genealogy handout didn't even get consideration....I feel so sad....
You didn't watch the video, you got an honorable mention.
[:D]
I started watching it but got bored with the first "be patient"
And by the way.....
Phil the sniper
I had the screen set up to refresh every 15 sec while I studied and I occasionally looked up. as soon as I hit the capture on snag it it froze it. The REALLY sad part is my wife called right when you turned from 65 to 66.....and I still got it....actually, the sad part is that I even tried.
Philip. You need a life.
To be honest, I've had a hard time concentrating ever since Dezarae (our foster baby for 4 months) left. Today we got the last check from the state for her.
Well then I'm glad to provide a little distraction. [;)]
Since this seems to be the place with the most discussion on handouts [:)]... Has anyone found a way to generate a handout with Greek, Hebrew, or any other non-English Biblical text WITHOUT having a Bible in that language selected as your primary Bible?
While this would not normally be seen to be a problem or issue, there is a case where handouts are created automatically when you open an entry in your reading plan. If the plan was generated off the BHS, for example, the text in the handout is from your primary bible and not the BHS. As another aside, if you open a reading plan for the Peshitta (or another Syriac Bible) and you do not have the Peshitta (or another Syriac Bible) as your primary Bible you will not get Syriac words listed under important words.
After thinking about the last issue, perhaps this whole question is rather a bug in how the reading plan generates reports.
Since this seems to be the place with the most discussion on handouts ... Has anyone found a way to generate a handout with Greek, Hebrew, or any other non-English Biblical text WITHOUT having a Bible in that language selected as your primary Bible?
Since this seems to be the place with the most discussion on handouts ... Has anyone found a way to generate a handout with Greek, Hebrew, or any other non-English Biblical text WITHOUT having a Bible in that language selected as your primary Bible?Sorry James, no. To my knowledge there is no way to do this at the moment. Pity.
Great restraint Thomas!
I like and see where the handouts tool is going. I teach children's church and used a logos handout yesterday for my class. The kids loved the added information and thought the word puzzle was "real cool!". I can agree that there are better formatting/ publishing tools out there... and that may be the crux of the situation. If there were a real easy way to copy/ paste the information that the handout report generates (text and graphics), then we could use the tools that we are already familar with. http://www.serif.com/pageplus/
Does anyone know how to add your own content that actually goes the whole way across the page? I just want to put a handout together with blanks that people can fill in and it keeps trying to put it into a two column format no matter what I do.
P.S. I am glad I am not the only one struggling with these handouts.
Sorry Geoffrey, This isn't currently possible. What I've done however is to craft questions on one side, and then to craft blank lines on the other. It wasn't visually appealing so I finally went back to creating a question and leaving room underneath. Still two columns but it is what is possible right now.
Thanks for the info. I hope that is something that they will try to fix. I was so excited when I saw the handout feature in the demo, for me it was a selling point to upgrade but ever since I have been terribly disappointed with the handout. It just does not work right. If they fix these problems I think it has great potential but until then, not so much. Apart from that I am learning to like L4 and am glad I upgraded.
I like the simplicity and the idea behind the Handout tool. It's definitely "workable." I cannot get my Canon md830 printer to print the booklet form so that page 2 appears after page one after folding.
I made the mistake of calling tech support yesterday and was told the problem is in the printer configuration (which it probably is) and that i shouldn't be calling for something like that.
So here it is, I can't use the simple tool as it's intended because page two prints upside down on the page (duplex style) and all other configurations of the printer (including Booklet) shrink the text or flip it in other ways. The solution is somewhere in configuring the printer but all permutations of the available options do not correct the problem.
I cannot get my Canon md830 printer to print the booklet form so that page 2 appears after page one after folding.
It's not your printer config, it's the handouts. There is a duplex printing bug I reported somewhere but which IS I believe fixed as of beta3 and now Beta4.
I tried to use it for an upcoming youth lesson. Logos 4 crashed three times while going through the editing process to get relevant material into the handout. I finally just gave up and used word.
It seems to be an issue with the constant need of the application to update the view of what is in the handout and what can be browsed toward the left in the editing window. By the third or fourth time that I would add content to the browsing area it would crash while trying to refresh the handout or update the view of the new content.
I guessed that it could be a memory issue so I tried it again but this time I delete non-relevant content from the browser area as much as possible but it eventually crashed just the same.
Here is the log file if anyone is interested. (I have already posted this in another section of the forum but thought more of it.)
1524.Logos4_0210_2010.log
