What in the world is downloading?

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Francis | Forum Activity | Posted: Tue, Nov 3 2009 6:38 PM

While I appreciate the discretion of the download tray icon, I appreciated in L3 update the ability to know what the updates were. Is there a way for us to know what L4 update is downloading? Related question: when missing features will be implemented (I assume through a download) are we supposed to stumble into it while using L4 or will we have some kind of notification?

At present, especially for those who lack resources or features, we don't know what's going on. Today another 26 MB downloaded. I have no idea what.

Any answer?

Francis

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Damian McGrath | Forum Activity | Replied: Tue, Nov 3 2009 6:42 PM

Francis:

While I appreciate the discretion of the download tray icon, I appreciated in L3 update the ability to know what the updates were. Is there a way for us to know what L4 update is downloading? Related question: when missing features will be implemented (I assume through a download) are we supposed to stumble into it while using L4 or will we have some kind of notification?

At present, especially for those who lack resources or features, we don't know what's going on. Today another 26 MB downloaded. I have no idea what.

Francis,

Currently there is no way to know what is updating other than watching the download directory. A few of us asked for more control over downloads but Bob has decided on an all or nothing approach.

There is talk of adding a release date column to the library. This should allow us to easily check in the program after the download what has been updated.

As to the program itself, Bradley is "The Man" when it comes to Release Notes -  If you ask him nicely, he may post them on the public forum. 

They detail bug fixes and changes to UI. They are very very helpful.

 

Posts 5616
Todd Phillips | Forum Activity | Replied: Tue, Nov 3 2009 6:45 PM

Damian McGrath:

As to the program itself, Bradley is "The Man" when it comes to Release Notes -  If you ask him nicely, he may post them on the public forum. 

They detail bug fixes and changes to UI. They are very very helpful.

Yes, I was surprised to see them still just in the Private Beta forum.  Supersecret, ya know.

 

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Mark Smith | Forum Activity | Replied: Tue, Nov 3 2009 6:46 PM

Today's download is probably the new service release (SR-3).

There is not a way to know what is in a download. Most service releases are in the 25 MB range. Larger downloads are usually collections of updated resources.

L4 is programmed to check once a day for new updates. Of course you have to be connected to the internet and in your Program Setting panel set Use Internet to Yes (the default) for this to work. You don't have to have L4 open 24/7 nor your computer on 24/7. It will figure out when you open it whether it is time to 'phone home'. Thus if there are new features you won't have to go looking for them. This is one of the benefits of Logos 4.

If you are unsure, you can type Update Now in the command bar and hit enter. Give it a minute or two, but if there are no notices and no icon in the system tray you have no new content to download.

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Posts 5337
Kevin Becker | Forum Activity | Replied: Tue, Nov 3 2009 6:55 PM

I appreciate the "all or nothing" approach from a tech-support point of view. Automatic updates means that theoretically everyone is on the same page when they call tech support; bug fixes can be delivered quickly, saving tech support calls and money. However, I do miss the granular control that LDLS 3 provided; if an updated book file was released for a book I didn't use it could be ignored. Also, those who do not have broadband will find themselves severely bandwidth-challenged.

Time will tell if this is an improvement or not.

Posts 3770
Francis | Forum Activity | Replied: Tue, Nov 3 2009 10:21 PM

While I trust Logos as a company, it does not feel right not to know what is downloading unto your computer.

There are all kinds of scenarios I could imagine that would be bad news if it went on without our knowledge: The inability to tell if something is going wrong with the downloader (as it has happened occasionally with L3); Someone hacking into the downloader process and using it with the user being oblivious and thinking that "updates" must be taking place. Lacking awareness of the updates that are implemented, etc.

I don't think it's asking too much in this day and age to know what's going on especially when it comes to connecting one's computer to the Internet.

Francis

Posts 2793
J.R. Miller | Forum Activity | Replied: Tue, Nov 3 2009 10:32 PM

Francis, I know others have had this same concern.  I am curious though, when windows  downloads and installs updates, do you know exactly what is in every one of them?  As I recall (and since I use Mac it has been some time) doesn't windows just download stuff and call it "Security Update" or "Service Pack 3"?  Do you have these same concerns not know everything MS is updating in these "packets"? I know lots of other programs use this same approach and rarely do I get anything except, "updates available".  Again, I am curious, how is Logos updating different than any of these other programs?

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Posts 2793
J.R. Miller | Forum Activity | Replied: Tue, Nov 3 2009 10:34 PM

KevinBecker:
owever, I do miss the granular control that LDLS 3 provided
This "granular control" cost Logos about 1 Million Dollars a year in customer support.  So the question Bob posed to us in Beta was this, would you prefer that 1 Million go into development of better software or to helping people figure out their "granular" controls that you love, but few people could figure out?

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Frank Sauer | Forum Activity | Replied: Tue, Nov 3 2009 10:36 PM

Joe in Windows Updating you can choose auto or manual as you can in L4. However if you want to know MS does have the ability to see what is being downloaded, select or unselect via check box and also have and explanation of what each update involves, fixes or installs, etc...

As already noted many times, I am 100% in the camp of having the ability to see what is and whether or not I want it downloading onto my system.

I do not want to waste the bandwidth or the indexing time for resources I never use and I want to know what is getting installed and why if necessary...

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Rich DeRuiter | Forum Activity | Replied: Tue, Nov 3 2009 11:24 PM

Frank Sauer:

Joe in Windows Updating you can choose auto or manual as you can in L4. However if you want to know MS does have the ability to see what is being downloaded, select or unselect via check box and also have and explanation of what each update involves, fixes or installs, etc...

As already noted many times, I am 100% in the camp of having the ability to see what is and whether or not I want it downloading onto my system.

I do not want to waste the bandwidth or the indexing time for resources I never use and I want to know what is getting installed and why if necessary...

I agree that it would be nice to know what is updating. I'd love to know when that NIV rev int. is on it's way, e.g. I'd also love to see a notice (on the home page) telling me what I've just bought, or updated. Maybe it's just comfort knowledge, but I like comfort.

But, as Bob explained it to us in the Beta, resources and the program are more tightly related in L4 than in L3. That means that an update to the program may break something in a resource. By refusing that/those resource(s), you may break the program and end up calling tech support to get the problem solved. Also, if an updated resource were to be downloaded to an 'old' version of L4, that could also be problematic. Again, tech support gets a call. Instead, what we have is an all or nothing system.

Here's why this is a good idea: Logos has spent hours and thousands (or was it millions) of dollars in tech support. Most tech support is required because of user initiated problems. By taking more away from us end-users, there should be less tech support costs for the Logos company. The more Logos controls the install and upgrade process the fewer problems they'll have to deal with at tech support. This means they can give more money and attention to developing the program and more of those ground-breaking resources they've been putting out the last few years.

Oh yeah, if you don't want to download resources because you never use them, hide them. Then they will not be downloaded, until you unhide them.

 Help links: WIKI;  Logos 6 FAQ. (Phil. 2:14, NIV)

Posts 2793
J.R. Miller | Forum Activity | Replied: Tue, Nov 3 2009 11:52 PM

Fair enough Frank, I see what you are saying.  However, Richard's answer is important.  If Logos gives every user the ability to "pick and chose" what to install, this will not allow Logos to build a tightly integrated program that squeezes the most from our books.   

You have to think of L4 differently than L3.  L3 was a random mix of good tools thrown together as Logos came up with some good ideas.  The tools did not necessarily play nicely together.  It is one of the reasons I used hardly any of the tools in L3.  They just did not work well as a whole.

Over the past 7 weeks in Beta testing L4,most of us have come to recognize the real power of L4 is that Logos has taken these L3 tools and built them to work as one integrated tool.  So users having the ability to say "I don't want to update Biblical People" would break the functionality of the tools you do use in L4.  

However, as a separate issues, is the question, "how can users know what Logos is doing?"

When I click on the little blue Logos icon, I would like to see a list of "what has changed" or "what is being downloaded".  Would that satisfy your needs Frank?

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Bob Pritchett | Forum Activity | Replied: Tue, Nov 3 2009 11:53 PM

I love having the beta testers answering all the questions in the forums. Thanks!

Today's downloads were resources accidentally left out of the download for different collections -- books you should have gotten yesterday, for example, but didn't -- and SR-3, which fixes some critical bugs some users were seeing.

As has been pointed out, we need to keep machines "in synch" as much as possible. Even books you don't use. Now that we have an integrated index of your whole library, for example, an old book with an out of date data type format or some other problem could cause the indexer (which touches all the books) to crash if you avoided updating it for a long time.

If you really don't want the book, hide it using the Program Settings.

I do understand that everybody wants to know what's happening, though, and I hope we can improve on communicating that in the future. (We can use the Home Page, alerts, etc. to describe impending downloads and new feature releases, etc.) Right now we're just scrambling to stay on top of things during the roll-out...

Posts 2212
Damian McGrath | Forum Activity | Replied: Wed, Nov 4 2009 12:04 AM

Bob Pritchett:

I love having the beta testers answering all the questions in the forums. Thanks!

Bob,

it's a sign of how much we feel privileged to have been part of the Beta.

 

Bob Pritchett:

I do understand that everybody wants to know what's happening, though, and I hope we can improve on communicating that in the future. (We can use the Home Page, alerts, etc. to describe impending downloads and new feature releases, etc.) Right now we're just scrambling to stay on top of things during the roll-out...

Why not use the forums....? It seems like everyone's found them now.... Maybe the help menu should include a link to here as well.

I would just like a simple list of which resources are being updated. During Beta, naturally we were faced with "Large Update Coming" messages - ti may have been impossible to list all the contents. But, now that we're getting over that hump, a simple list of what's updated would suffice...

Posts 2793
J.R. Miller | Forum Activity | Replied: Wed, Nov 4 2009 12:13 AM

Maybe we can put together an OFFICIAL FAQ page so that as we answer some of the same exact questions over and over, we can post a link to the FAQ and save time.

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Damian McGrath | Forum Activity | Replied: Wed, Nov 4 2009 12:17 AM

Joe Miller:

Maybe we can put together an OFFICIAL FAQ page so that as we answer some of the same exact questions over and over, we can post a link to the FAQ and save time.

Please (say I on bended knee)!

Posts 2793
J.R. Miller | Forum Activity | Replied: Wed, Nov 4 2009 12:19 AM

PS Bob, if you have job opening hire me.  I am a hungry church planter down here in Tacoma :-)

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Joe Miller:

PS Bob, if you have job opening hire me.  I am a hungry church planter down here in Tacoma :-)

Joe, we can't hire you! You're the guy that calls people out for counterproductive posts. As a Logos employee, there'd be so much you'd want to say but shouldn't (unless you're Bob)...

Posts 8660
TCBlack | Forum Activity | Replied: Thu, Nov 5 2009 12:41 PM

Bob Pritchett:
Right now we're just scrambling to stay on top of things during the roll-out...
Isn't this just as you imagined it? 

Damian McGrath:
Why not use the forums....? It seems like everyone's found them now.... Maybe the help menu should include a link to here as well.
It's there:

Hmm Sarcasm is my love language. Obviously I love you. 

Posts 2753
DominicM | Forum Activity | Replied: Thu, Nov 5 2009 1:06 PM

Jacob Carpenter:

Joe Miller:

PS Bob, if you have job opening hire me.  I am a hungry church planter down here in Tacoma :-)

Joe, we can't hire you! You're the guy that calls people out for counterproductive posts. As a Logos employee, there'd be so much you'd want to say but shouldn't (unless you're Bob)...

LOL but the Boss is always right isn't he?

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Posts 2793
J.R. Miller | Forum Activity | Replied: Thu, Nov 5 2009 1:44 PM

Jacob Carpenter:

Joe Miller:

PS Bob, if you have job opening hire me.  I am a hungry church planter down here in Tacoma :-)

Joe, we can't hire you! You're the guy that calls people out for counterproductive posts. As a Logos employee, there'd be so much you'd want to say but shouldn't (unless you're Bob)...

True, then I would have to be diplomatic.  For the right price, I can do it LOL

 

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