Local Backup and Restore

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This post has 34 Replies | 1 Follower

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Mark Smith | Forum Activity | Posted: Sat, Jul 9 2011 4:41 PM

Once again the lack of local backup and restore may have done someone in big time. (http://community.logos.com/forums/t/35566.aspx ).

There is a UserVoice suggestion to allow for local backup and restore of user generated files like the Notes file here: http://logos.uservoice.com/forums/42823-logos-bible-software-4/suggestions/1852009-create-an-offline-backup-and-restore-capability-f?ref=title

This has basically gathered no votes, but needs some visibility for Logos to take a more serious look at this problem. If you have some UserVoice votes left, please give a few to this request. If you have never visited UserVoice, take a look, log in with your Logos email address and name and you'll get a total of ten votes to use on all UserVoice proposals. You can also add your own proposal.

Pastor, North Park Baptist Church

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Kenny Larsen | Forum Activity | Replied: Sat, Jul 9 2011 5:06 PM

Out of interest would a complete HD clone allow you to recover your notes?

 

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Fred Chapman | Forum Activity | Replied: Sat, Jul 9 2011 5:52 PM

I backup my entire L4 directory about twice a month (sometimes more) to an external hd. Using this http://wiki.logos.com/Quick_Installation_onto_multiple_computers I have been able to load the entire program from this backup.

What additional back-up options do we need?

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Mark Smith | Forum Activity | Replied: Sat, Jul 9 2011 6:16 PM

Fred Chapman:
What additional back-up options do we need?

You have a star under your picture. You and I are not average users.

My answer to your question? Something in Logos itself. Most users have no idea where their Logos folders are and may believe the cloud is taking care of them. They also have never heard of the wiki article you are referring to.

Logos also has no documentation anywhere I can find on how to ensure our personal documents are safe.

Logos needs to go the extra mile here because of the way they save (and seemingly try to hide from the average user) their individual files. If I get a corrupted Word document that isn't nice, but at least all my other Word files are OK. One corrupted Note file can cause me to loose all of them. I really see that as unacceptable without offering an easy to use backup option (then it would be my bad if I didn't use it).

Pastor, North Park Baptist Church

Bridgeport, CT USA

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Todd Phillips | Forum Activity | Replied: Sat, Jul 9 2011 6:29 PM

Fred Chapman:
What additional back-up options do we need?

I'd like a way to batch export/import documents and collections.  As it is right now, restoring a backed-up Logos directory isn't always a solution because the cloud is in control, and it will sync problems back down onto your restored system.  I.e., if you've deleted a bunch of notes from a note file, the note file is saved to the cloud with the deletions, and restoring the local copy won't prevent the newer version on the Logos servers from overwriting it.

Also, a cloud-based sync is not a backup.  It's just a mirror image of the current state.  But if a previous state is needed, then Logos' current scheme provides no protection.  I personally like the cloud, but it's not sufficient.

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Dave Hooton | Forum Activity | Replied: Sat, Jul 9 2011 10:56 PM

Todd Phillips:
I personally like the cloud, but it's not sufficient.

Various issues have shown that it is not sufficient so I agree that a user-friendly backup/restore is required. Note that it will put the onus on the user to recognise that these are my documents as they will replace whatever the Cloud thinks is current.

Dave
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MJ. Smith | Forum Activity | Replied: Sat, Jul 9 2011 11:09 PM

Dave Hooton:
Various issues have shown that it is not sufficient so I agree that a user-friendly backup/restore is required.

My first choice would be to be able to do a roll-back in the cloud. It would permit one to minimize the lost data without requiring very frequent backups.

Orthodox Bishop Hilarion Alfeyev: "To be a theologian means to have experience of a personal encounter with God through prayer and worship."

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Kenny Larsen | Forum Activity | Replied: Sun, Jul 10 2011 3:29 AM

I agree with MJ, if we're going cloud then automatic nightly snapshots (maybe holding a months worth of changes) in the cloud that can be restored would be the way forward. Assuming Logos has the same redundancy, or similar, to amazons AWS storage space could be saved by just backing up the changes and only doing a repeat full backup every week or so.

This is similar to the way the university I'm at does things and it seems to work quite well.

Kenny

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Jack Caviness | Forum Activity | Replied: Sun, Jul 10 2011 3:42 AM

Mark Smith:
Once again the lack of local backup and restore may have done someone in big time. (http://community.logos.com/forums/t/35566.aspx ).

George's problem coupled with Bradley's responses is very troublesome. It should give every Logos user cause for concern.

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Denise | Forum Activity | Replied: Sun, Jul 10 2011 6:51 AM

I agree with MJ on a cloud-rollback. Most users are probably not that involved with the details of the software, and only need assist when an unexpected disaster occurs. Personally, it wouldn't surprise me if rollback data already exists since the data is fairly small.

For myself, I agree with Mark that local backup would be good. I really feel for both George and Mark. Notes are the life of the program.

"I didn't know God made honky tonk angels."

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Levi D. | Forum Activity | Replied: Sun, Jul 10 2011 7:39 AM

The lack of a backup option is why I haven't started putting notes in Logos -- it's just too scary for me.

Coming from the Mac side of things, we have Time Machine with it's hourly backups -- for that reason I would love a local backup option. 

The cloud rollback option would also be good. I can see it working similar to Dropbox's document backup system.

I added my 3 votes to the UserVoice suggestion that Mark mentioned in the first post: http://logos.uservoice.com/forums/42823-logos-bible-software-4/suggestions/1852009-create-an-offline-backup-and-restore-capability-f?ref=title


I spent most of my time in thinking of divine things, year after year; often walking alone in the woods and solitary places for meditation, soliloquy and prayer - Jonathan Edwards

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Dave Hooton | Forum Activity | Replied: Sun, Jul 10 2011 7:51 AM

Jack Caviness:
George's problem coupled with Bradley's responses is very troublesome

In fairness, George's original problem with Word Find could have been fixed as Bradley explained without removing the document Info + index files that caused the loss of his Notes. However, the issue does expose the fragility of the Cloud's backup of our documents.

Dave
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tom | Forum Activity | Replied: Sun, Jul 10 2011 7:59 AM

Mark Smith:

Once again the lack of local backup and restore may have done someone in big time. (http://community.logos.com/forums/t/35566.aspx ).

There is a UserVoice suggestion to allow for local backup and restore of user generated files like the Notes file here: http://logos.uservoice.com/forums/42823-logos-bible-software-4/suggestions/1852009-create-an-offline-backup-and-restore-capability-f?ref=title

This has basically gathered no votes, but needs some visibility for Logos to take a more serious look at this problem. If you have some UserVoice votes left, please give a few to this request. If you have never visited UserVoice, take a look, log in with your Logos email address and name and you'll get a total of ten votes to use on all UserVoice proposals. You can also add your own proposal.

This one of several reasons why I still use L3 for my notes.  I simply do not trust Logos (and every other company out there) with my data.  I personally back up my data to three different hard drives at home.

IMHO, Logos should allow us to back up and restore our data just like I can with every other program.

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toughski | Forum Activity | Replied: Sun, Jul 17 2011 5:32 AM

DMB:

Notes are the life of the program.

I couldn't agree more. We can restore everything (licenses, resources, even the program itself) EXCEPT user created files that are unique and very precious. I feel that LOGOS is really underestimating the value of user content.

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BriM | Forum Activity | Replied: Sun, Jul 17 2011 5:58 AM

The UserVoice thing is interesting - I hadn't seen that before (I'm pretty new to Logos).

It seems that I've ten votes available but I can only find one thing to vote on. Anyone care to tell me where I can find the full list of options I might want to vote for?

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Juanita | Forum Activity | Replied: Sun, Jul 17 2011 6:25 AM

tom collinge:
I simply do not trust Logos (and every other company out there) with my data

My data is more important to me than any company out there values it.  So, I play it safe and go two and sometimes, three deep with my personal files, doc's, pdf's and all the fruit of my studies over the years.

tom collinge:
IMHO, Logos should allow us to back up and restore our data just like I can with every other program

It would be nice but I don't think this will happen.  However, something needs to be done to satisfy the user community since this is a serious issue as expressed by others in this thread.

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Dave Hooton | Forum Activity | Replied: Sun, Jul 17 2011 6:38 AM

BriM:
Anyone care to tell me where I can find the full list of options I might want to vote for?

First sign-in with your Logos Email address and then you should see some tabs like Top ideas, hot, new. Scroll down to select other pages in that tab.

Dave
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Graham Owen | Forum Activity | Replied: Sun, Jul 17 2011 8:03 AM

Mark Smith:
Most users have no idea where their Logos folders are and may believe the cloud is taking care of them

And this is fine as long as everything is working as planned, I think we all agree that what the 'cloud' does it does very well the big issue is that it is not a backup and when things go wrong it is difficult to know what is happening.

I think that there are a few things that could be done that would improve things significanlty. I would like to think that these would be easy to implement but a lot will depend on how the current system is designed.

  1. Allow users to define a number of recovery points (I think that 4 would be enough), create a simple interface so that we can reset our documents to one of our recovery points and give us two options:
    1. Scheduled - we define a schedule and Logos automatically generates the recovery point. 
    2. Manual - a menu option or command that we can enter to create a recovery point.
  2. When we login and there are no files stored locally, rather than simply starting the sync process let the user know what is happening, When I had a failure during one of the Betas all of my files disappeared, I started to panic but as it was late I left my PC on and went to bed. In the morning everything was back as it should be. The issue was not the process but the lack of communication during the process all I needed was a message that said something like "local files missing cloud sync activated" or possibly one that gave me the option not to restore.
  3. For those who are backing up the files that are being synched it would be nice to have a sync suspend/resume/refresh command so that these files can be restored and the sync process would know to use the current local data as the master.

One thing fore sure is that this area needs to be given some serious thought to make sure that the user data management tools are appropriate for a high end Bible research tool.

God Bless

Graham

Pastor - NTCOG Basingstoke

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tom | Forum Activity | Replied: Sun, Jul 17 2011 9:08 AM

Vladimir Lukyanov:
I feel that LOGOS is really underestimating the value of user content.

When L4 came out, I said Logos gave their users the middle finger when it comes to user's data.  I lost soooo much data going from L3 to L4 that it is not funny.

Logos has continually and solely focus on resources because this is where they get their income.  This being said, if Logos continues to forget the most important data that a user has is the data the user enters into her/his software, users will ...

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MJ. Smith | Forum Activity | Replied: Sun, Jul 17 2011 3:13 PM

Graham Owen:
I think that there are a few things that could be done that would improve things significanlty. I would like to think that these would be easy to implement but a lot will depend on how the current system is designed.

Excellent plan, Graham.

Orthodox Bishop Hilarion Alfeyev: "To be a theologian means to have experience of a personal encounter with God through prayer and worship."

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