Performance Issues

I have been a Logos user for many, many years and use it all the time.

My biggest issue with Logos at this time is performance (or lack thereof). I have a pretty high end machine (quad core, 7200 RPM HDDs, 4 GB memory, etc), but Logos is the worst performing application on my machine (by far). For example, it takes 10 to 20 seconds just to startup Logos and get to the home page. Opening a saved layout takes another 5-10 seconds. It seems that almost everything is in slow motion.

And when I use Logos on my laptop it is even worse.

Does anyone know what the status of improving performance is at this point?

Find more posts tagged with

Comments

Dennis Miller

Welcome to the new Logos!!! Enjoy!!

JT (alabama24)

GeoPappas -

Quad Core is nice, but 4GB of Ram can hardly be considered "high end." I doubled my standard 4GB to 8GB and did notice a speed improvement in some areas (such as scrolling with interlinears), however much work needs to be done.

John Nerdue

My biggest issue with Logos at this time is performance (or lack thereof).

That's why I use Logos 3. [:)]

Paul N

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/268801#Comment_268801

While I too have 8 GB RAM on my desktop, I bought so much with the experience being this has always been the first bottleneck issue in my past computers... so I doubled what was originally offered. I think 4 GB of RAM would easily take care of most computing and even gaming software demands today where as most programs would not even benefit from 8 GB. However Logos does, and we're seeing many Logos users confused as to why their average to low end computers aren't supporting what the program desires.

While I appreciate Logos for being future minded in their development of the program, and I also believe as the userbase's hardware is updated these slowdowns will diminish, I can't help but wonder the many users who have either quit using Logos or tried another route because of the slowness or perceived inadequacy of the program.

To tell users its them (and their machines) and not the program could be perceived wrongly even if it is them.

Dave Hooton

Does anyone know what the status of improving performance is at this point?

It is ongoing, though I suspect hampered by the need to improve the Feature set to match L3. Improvement for Notes is currently being tested.

JT (alabama24)

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/268821#Comment_268821

To tell users its them (and their machines) and not the program could be perceived wrongly even if it is them.

Paul -

I hope you don't think I was telling GeoPappas that it was his (or his computers) fault! I agree that users should not be told it's their systems fault when they meet or exceed the recommended system requirements!

http://www.logos.com/support/techfaq

Mark Smith

Does anyone know what the status of improving performance is at this point?

Code optimization is slowing happening. If you've been with Logos 4 since the beginning you know this has happened and in some areas there has been substantial improvement, so I am hopeful this will continue.

Will L4 ever be as quick in some ways as L3? I doubt it. Different architecture.

DMB

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/268830#Comment_268830

Everything is relative to your perspective.

Out here in the Arizona canyons, you just don't get 'flat space'. And so the Eurovan has ample horses under the hood but abolutely insists on keeping the revs under 3000.

And so a line forms behind .... heh guys, it was designed that way!

tom

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/268829#Comment_268829

Improvement for Notes is currently being tested.

Dave, I would say that beta 8 is an improvement to sync process that affects notes, not improvement to notes (both needs work IMHO)

Rich DeRuiter

My biggest issue with Logos at this time is performance (or lack thereof). I have a pretty high end machine (quad core, 7200 RPM HDDs, 4 GB memory, etc), but Logos is the worst performing application on my machine (by far). For example, it takes 10 to 20 seconds just to startup Logos and get to the home page. Opening a saved layout takes another 5-10 seconds. It seems that almost everything is in slow motion.

10-20 seconds to start and 5-10 to load a saved layout is not that bad for a program of this type. IMHO. I remember Logos3 taking 90 to 120 seconds to start on my previous machine. I would literally start the program and go out to get a cup of coffee and return to watch it finish opening.

But that's not why I'm responding.

The wiki gives some tips on speeding up Logos performance.

Logos running slowly:
http://wiki.logos.com/Logos_Running_Slowly

Speeding up Logos4 responses:
http://wiki.logos.com/Speeding_up_Logos_4_responses

BTW, you can turn off starting with the home page, if you want: On the lower left of the home page (on the status bar) is a "Customize" menu; left-click and unselect "Show home page at startup." (the bottom of that customization list). You can open/close the home page at any time by clicking the house icon at the top left of the Logos4 window.

Paul N

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/268830#Comment_268830

To tell users its them (and their machines) and not the program could be perceived wrongly even if it is them.

Paul -

I hope you don't think I was telling GeoPappas that it was his (or his computers) fault! I agree that users should not be told it's their systems fault when they meet or exceed the recommended system requirements!

http://www.logos.com/support/techfaq

nah, I actually think Logos inadvertently tells their customers with lower end machines this by creating a program that does not adequately encompass their computer's capabilities. (Honestly I'm probably just tired of reading about it in the forums... [:P])

...we can tell other users this all we want and its ok! [Y]

tom

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/268845#Comment_268845

(Honestly I'm probably just tired of reading about it in the forums... )

Anytime a topic gets repeated by different individuals, there is a good reason why the topic continues to be raised. And the topic will continue to be raised until it has been addressed to the sanctification of the people who are raising the topic.

Paul N

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/268878#Comment_268878

and certainly to the sanctification of those reading as well!

GeoPappas

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/268801#Comment_268801

Quad Core is nice, but 4GB of Ram can hardly be considered "high end."

Sorry to disagree, but when it comes to Logos, my computer is "high end". It surpasses the required and recommended hardware requirements for Logos by a long shot. Logos 4 was released over a year and a half ago. Ever since then, they have been promising to increase performance. But it simply hasn't happened. There simply isn't a good reason why Logos is as slow as it is. Logos needs to step up to the plate and put some resources on this issue. If someone with a machine like mine is complaining about it being slow, using Logos on an "average" computer must be a lesson in patience.

And in regards to memory, I just ran a test: I started the Windows Task Manager and it showed that the computer was using 2.07 GB of memory (w/o Logos running). I then started Logos and it showed that 2.21 GB of memory was being used. I then opened a layout that I had saved (which opens 9 tabs) and memory increased to 2.29 GB. So, in total, Logos used about .22 GB (or 220 MB) of memory. That is a drop in the bucket compared to the total that is on my machine. So the 4 GB of memory that I have is way more than enough (when it comes to Logos).

GeoPappas

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/268834#Comment_268834

Will L4 ever be as quick in some ways as L3? I doubt it. Different architecture.

I sure hope that isn't what Logos is telling everyone. There is no reason why L4 should be slower than L3 (even with a different architecture). The performance of computers doubles every few years. When I had L3, my computer was about 3-4x slower than the one that I have now. L3 was running on a dual core CPU, with far less memory, on slower drives. So there really isn't a reason why L4 shouldn't be as fast as L3.

DMB

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/268917#Comment_268917

As I understand it, Job was running Logos4 on a netbook.

It was quite 'adversarial'.

mab

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/268925#Comment_268925

I strongly recommend turning off the home page on startup because it's pulling from the web and that can slow you down. I'm using just a 2G dual core pentium machine with XP and 512M video card and it's pretty decent. Logos is improving it and we're near getting another update soon which should make it better still.

More RAM doesn't hurt and it's cheap for what it enables.

There are visual bells and whistles on the operating systems. If you don't need them and turn them off, you'll find Logos can run better with what you have and the price is right!

Dave Hooton

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/268840#Comment_268840

Dave, I would say that beta 8 is an improvement to sync process that affects notes, not improvement to notes

It is still a performance improvement.

Mark Smith

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/268921#Comment_268921

So there really isn't a reason why L4 shouldn't be as fast as L3.

That was meant as a comparison of both programs on the same machine. I believe that Logos 3 will always best Logos 4 on the same machine. But since we really aren't comparing the same program at all, it is actually meaningless to make this comparison.

nicky crane

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/269139#Comment_269139

I have 3 gigs RAM. It's slow, but not unbearable.

Thanks for the link to the wiki pages. I'll try to make the time to go there - when I'm waiting for Logos to start up??

tom

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/268988#Comment_268988

Dave, I would say that beta 8 is an improvement to sync process that affects notes, not improvement to notes

It is still a performance improvement.

Yes it is.

Graham Owen

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/269139#Comment_269139

I believe that Logos 3 will always best Logos 4 on the same machine.

Reminds me of a situation some years ago when my then boss was trying to get our office manager to move from Word Perforect for DOS to Word Perfect for Windows. He kept getting her new (faster) systems and everytime she said that the Windows Version was too slow. Real problem was that someone kept instaling the DOS Version on her new system so the WIndows Version was never going to catch up.

I agree that Logos 3 out perfroms Logos 4 on my current system but, from memory, perfromace of 4 on my current system is on a par with performance on my old system of Logos 3.

Biggest concern that I have is that Logos 4 performance does not scale well when dealing with large resources this includes Books, Notes and Clippings. A good example is Barth's Church Dogmatics which sends Logos into a not responding state for minutes whenever I open it. I have note and clipping files that do the same thing.

vionectro@gmail.com

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/269265#Comment_269265

I've been using Logos 4 now for about a month. I am running a Intel Core I5 2500K over-clocked to 4.2GHz with 8 GB ram, and a SLI GTX560Ti GFX Setup with 64bit Windows 7.

I can say this, there is noticeable lag when using logos, specific (at least for me) to scrolling a resource/book. Having the book unlinked from other open resources does improve the speed, but still it's crazy to think that you're getting lag when you only have 1 book open and nothing else.

I think the problem might be that the Logos' process that paints the viewed text/scrolls the UI is the same thread as that loading information from disk/memory. I believe the problem (at least it feels like it) is that Logo's isn't loading its content from disk/cache for display asynchronously or in a separate thread.

Another possibility is that Logo's is simply just not caching enough resource data forward and backward from the current viewed position.

It is a really weird feeling when you only have 1 book open with no aids etc., but for some reason it doesn't scroll smoothly.

Right now I'm using 4.3 beta 12. I really hope the scrolling speed is improved and smoothed out.

Mark Smith

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/269726#Comment_269726

It is a really weird feeling when you only have 1 book open with no aids etc., but for some reason it doesn't scroll smoothly.

My machine is different from yours but I do not have scrolling problems in the release version of Logos 4. I wonder if you have checked out the wiki articles on improving Logos speed?

http://wiki.logos.com/Speeding_up_Logos_4_responses

http://wiki.logos.com/Logos_Running_Slowly

Others who've noticed speed issues with Logos 4 have sometimes seen improvements implementing these suggestions.

You didn't mention in your post what, if anything, is open besides the resource you are scrolling through. Could you take a screen shot of your layout when this is occurring and post it here?

vionectro@gmail.com

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/269763#Comment_269763

I'm at work right now, but layout wise its a plain fullscreen open book with no additional resources (see screenshot). Book doesn't seem to make much of a difference, but here I was testing with "131 Christians Everyone Should Know".

I noticed on my work computer (2.2Ghz Core2 Duo Laptop 2GB Ram) that while the lag seems more severe here, there is no lag when scrolling over a big image. It seems that the lag is isolated to when scrolling over text. I was scrolling using the mouse wheel. No visual filters were on.

I'll check tonight at home if similar results occur on my home machine.

Mark Smith

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/269879#Comment_269879

Thanks for the additional info. Doing the same thing as you have shown I have no significant lag, but again, a very different machine. Do check out the second wiki article I linked to above and specifically look at the section "Some tweaks for Windows."

vionectro@gmail.com

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/269989#Comment_269989

I just finished the same test I did at work at home on my desktop and home laptop with the same results, with all the windows suggestions from the wiki applied. The results were the same with the suggestions on or off.

I have now tested on 3 different machines and have seen similar results on each (win 7 ultimate 64bit, win 7 home premium 32bit, vista business 32bit).

Scrolling across big full page static images are smooth where as scrolling across text seems to be jerky and jumpy. I noticed maxing the font size seems to make the scrolling smoother. If I were to point a finger I'd say its something to do with the way Logos figures out how to layout or paint text and the method use for scrolling/painting that blob of information. It seems the more characters and/or paragraphs it needs to deal with on the screen the more jerky the scrolling.

I'll try see if I can get some higher frame rate video recording software to record a video to demonstrate what I'm talking about.

I guess it sounds like I'm splitting hairs, its about the difference between 10-15 frames per second scrolling across text vs. 30-60+ frames per second scrolling across a image. The program is by no means unusable, but it looks like this is a area in need of some investigation/optimization considering the hardware.

Kind Regards,
G.

Rich DeRuiter

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/270048#Comment_270048

If I were to point a finger I'd say its something to do with the way Logos figures out how to layout or paint text and the method use for scrolling/painting that blob of information.

You're probably right, except that this is done through WPF and so some of the blame rests with them.

I notice that I have very different results with my wheel mouse between click and hold to scroll (jerky) or just rolling the wheel (smooth). The scroll bar (which I never use, except for testing purposes) acts like the click-hold wheel. This would be an issue with how WPF handles scrolling. It's capable of scrolling smoothly, but it won't do it through the scroll bar, nor the mouse wheel scroll function. Not very pretty.

What happens if you use the PageUp/PageDown buttons (or Shift-Space/Space)? Does the page instantly move to the previous/next page of text, or do you see a lag there too?

vionectro@gmail.com

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/270061#Comment_270061

Page-ups/downs are instant (although there's the occasional disk hiccup every 200 pages or so when holding down - I'm not worried about that).

The behaviour I'm seeing can be replicated holding down the up and down keys also. The system scrolls more smoothly across image sections than text sections - which technically I find a bit bizzare, unless each character or word is being broken up into a object that interacts with its neighbours or something to that effect.

I'm testing on page 17-28 of 131 Christians everyone needs to know in the Fullscreen layout I posted in the screenshot, with the default font size at 1080p resolution.

I haven't really used other WPF much outside of Visual Studio 2010, which is claimed to be built with WPF. So I can't really comment on if its a general issue with the technology or not.

This is not inhibiting the use of the application for me and is by no means a critical issue.

Dennis Miller

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/270144#Comment_270144

When you have a field of thoroughbreds running down a track and there is one lagging behind the rest it's usually not the tracks fault, that lone horse is just not up to speed with the rest of the field. That is Logos on the Mac platform and the reason why blaming the hardware is a pitiful excuse when other applications run so much faster and better.

DMB

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/271273#Comment_271273

Dennis, I agree with you, but as I was reading your metaphor, I thought it would take the conclusion in the direction of a tired horse (i.e. computer).

I think an improved metaphor might be a track where only really strong horses can run; normal horses have trouble. In the image here, Logos4 would be the equivalent of building a track on the side of a steep hill.

Forum answer to pony running at the Hillside Track:

'Gee, when I run the Hillside Track, my pony has NO problem at all. Maybe you should try one of the wiki's on pony-running (hint, hint ... your horse needs more 'power').

'Huh? ... my pony runs well on all the other tracks. I don't understand why they put the track on a steep hill.'

'Well, son ... this track's meant for the 'big dogs' (ehhr ... big ponies). You shouldn't be on this track with that little pony of yours. You need a REAL pony like mine.'

Later after many discussions about pony-size, proper horseshoes, bridles, saddles, and rider-weight, versus the Hillside Track:

'Well, one thing you have to always remember. It's really not the track-people's fault that ponies have trouble here. It was built on a steep hill. It was the steep-hill people's fault.'

Now, I'd agree, this doesn't quite fit either!

Brother Mark

My biggest issue with Logos at this time is performance (or lack thereof). I have a pretty high end machine..., but Logos is the worst performing application on my machine (by far). For example, it takes 10 to 20 seconds just to startup Logos and get to the home page. Opening a saved layout takes another 5-10 seconds. It seems that almost everything is in slow motion.

Geo, Think back for a minute to the time when you had to go to your shelves (or the library!), select an armful of books, settle back in at the desk, open the books, find your place, etc, etc... the 20secs to get to the homepage (which, btw, you can turn off), then 10 secs to get to a layout.... well, there simply isn't a good comparison. We all agree that faster is better, and I personally agree that Logos is my slowest performing application, however, none of my other applications are sifting through every word of a thousand resources when I do a search (yes, yes, that doesn't speak to your stated issue: startup); but it sure is awesome when I'm comparing study methodologies instead of applications. [{]

Dennis Miller

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/271285#Comment_271285

I don't think any Champion horse breeder would take a thoroughbred (Mac) and Crossbreed (Mono) with a plow horse (Windows) and expect to win any races let alone place. Just doesn't make for good horse sense. [:D]

Mike T

Does anyone know what the status of improving performance is at this point?

Here is another tip to improve performance... I have a fairly high-end PC (Dell XPS 9000, i7-920, 9 gb RAM, ATI Radeon 5870, 1 Tb HD), but Logos 4 was taking almost a minute and a half to load. (Incredible!) Switching between the passage guide and home page took another 20-30 seconds. I have the Logos icon in a Dell application call Dell Dock, and had noticed that the shortcut was not replaced the past few upgrades. I deleted the shortcut, and replaced it with a fresh version. Now Logos loads in only 9 seconds! I don't know why this would make such a dramatic difference, but it did...

Mike

Dave Hooton

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/275483#Comment_275483

The proper shortcut should use \Logos4\Logos4.exe; not the file in the \Logos4\System folder. Which are you using?

Mike T

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/275709#Comment_275709

The proper shortcut should use \Logos4\Logos4.exe; not the file in the \Logos4\System folder. Which are you using?

The proper one...

Dave Hooton

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/275716#Comment_275716

The proper one...

Might be a shortcoming of the Dell Dock, then. I've not noticed any difference renewing my W7 shortcut.