Performance Issues

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This post has 37 Replies | 1 Follower

Posts 1374
nicky crane | Forum Activity | Replied: Sat, Jul 16 2011 1:26 PM

I have 3 gigs RAM.  It's slow, but not unbearable.

Thanks for the link to the wiki pages.  I'll try to make the time to go there - when I'm waiting for Logos to start up??

Posts 2964
tom | Forum Activity | Replied: Sat, Jul 16 2011 2:33 PM

Dave Hooton:

tom collinge:
Dave, I would say that beta 8 is an improvement to sync process that affects notes, not improvement to notes

It is still a performance improvement.

Yes it is.

Posts 611
Graham Owen | Forum Activity | Replied: Sun, Jul 17 2011 7:20 AM

Mark Smith:
I believe that Logos 3 will always best Logos 4 on the same machine.

Reminds me of a situation some years ago when my then boss was trying to get our office manager to move from Word Perforect for DOS to Word Perfect for Windows. He kept getting her new (faster) systems and everytime she said that the Windows Version was too slow. Real problem was that someone kept instaling the DOS Version on her new system so the WIndows Version was never going to catch up. 

I agree that Logos 3 out perfroms Logos 4 on my current system but, from memory, perfromace of 4 on my current system is on a par with performance on my old system of Logos 3.

Biggest concern that I have is that Logos 4 performance does not scale well when dealing with large resources this includes Books, Notes and Clippings. A good example is Barth's Church Dogmatics which sends Logos into a not responding state for minutes whenever I open it. I have note and clipping files that do the same thing. 

God Bless

Graham

Pastor - NTCOG Basingstoke

Posts 24
Kenneth Grant Johnson | Forum Activity | Replied: Tue, Jul 19 2011 1:01 PM

I've been using Logos 4 now for about a month. I am running a Intel Core I5 2500K over-clocked to 4.2GHz with 8 GB ram, and a SLI GTX560Ti GFX Setup with 64bit Windows 7.

I can say this, there is noticeable lag when using logos, specific (at least for me)  to scrolling a resource/book. Having the book unlinked from other open resources does improve the speed, but still it's crazy to think that you're getting lag when you only have 1 book open and nothing else.

I think the problem might be that the Logos' process that paints the viewed text/scrolls the UI is the same thread as that loading information from disk/memory. I believe the problem (at least it feels like it) is that Logo's isn't loading its content from disk/cache for display asynchronously or in a separate thread.

Another possibility is that Logo's is simply just not caching enough resource data forward and backward from the current viewed position.

It is a really weird feeling when you only have 1 book open with no aids etc., but for some reason it doesn't scroll smoothly.

Right now I'm using 4.3 beta 12. I really hope the scrolling speed is improved and smoothed out.

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Forum MVP
Mark Smith | Forum Activity | Replied: Tue, Jul 19 2011 2:53 PM

Kenneth Grant Johnson:
It is a really weird feeling when you only have 1 book open with no aids etc., but for some reason it doesn't scroll smoothly.

My machine is different from yours but I do not have scrolling problems in the release version of Logos 4. I wonder if you have checked out the wiki articles on improving Logos speed?

http://wiki.logos.com/Speeding_up_Logos_4_responses

http://wiki.logos.com/Logos_Running_Slowly

Others who've noticed speed issues with Logos 4 have sometimes seen improvements implementing these suggestions.

You didn't mention in your post what, if anything, is open besides the resource you are scrolling through. Could you take a screen shot of your layout when this is occurring and post it here?

Pastor, North Park Baptist Church

Bridgeport, CT USA

Posts 24
Kenneth Grant Johnson | Forum Activity | Replied: Wed, Jul 20 2011 6:58 AM

I'm at work right now, but layout wise its a plain fullscreen open book with no additional resources (see screenshot). Book doesn't seem to make much of a difference, but here I was testing with "131 Christians Everyone Should Know".

I noticed on my work computer (2.2Ghz Core2 Duo Laptop 2GB Ram) that while the lag seems more severe here, there is no lag when scrolling over a big image. It seems that the lag is isolated to when scrolling over text. I was scrolling using the mouse wheel. No visual filters were on.

I'll check tonight at home if similar results occur on my home machine.

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Mark Smith | Forum Activity | Replied: Wed, Jul 20 2011 11:22 AM

Thanks for the additional info. Doing the same thing as you have shown I have no significant lag, but again, a very different machine. Do check out the second wiki article I linked to above and specifically look at the section "Some tweaks for Windows."

Pastor, North Park Baptist Church

Bridgeport, CT USA

Posts 24
Kenneth Grant Johnson | Forum Activity | Replied: Wed, Jul 20 2011 3:23 PM

I just finished the same test I did at work at home on my desktop and home laptop with the same results, with all the windows suggestions from the wiki applied. The results were the same with the suggestions on or off.

I have now tested on 3 different machines and have seen similar results on each (win 7 ultimate 64bit, win 7 home premium 32bit, vista business 32bit).

Scrolling across big full page static images are smooth where as scrolling across text seems to be jerky and jumpy. I noticed maxing the font size seems to make the scrolling smoother. If I were to point a finger I'd say its something to do with the way Logos figures out how to layout or paint text and the method use for scrolling/painting that blob of information. It seems the more characters and/or paragraphs it needs to deal with on the screen the more jerky the scrolling. 

I'll try see if I can get some higher frame rate video recording software to record a video to demonstrate what I'm talking about.

I guess it sounds like I'm splitting hairs, its about the difference between 10-15 frames per second scrolling across text vs. 30-60+ frames per second scrolling across a image. The program is by no means unusable, but it looks like this is a area in need of some investigation/optimization considering the hardware.

Kind Regards,
G.

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Forum MVP
Rich DeRuiter | Forum Activity | Replied: Wed, Jul 20 2011 3:55 PM

Kenneth Grant Johnson:
 If I were to point a finger I'd say its something to do with the way Logos figures out how to layout or paint text and the method use for scrolling/painting that blob of information.

You're probably right, except that this is done through WPF and so some of the blame rests with them.

I notice that I have very different results with my wheel mouse between click and hold to scroll (jerky) or just rolling the wheel (smooth). The scroll bar (which I never use, except for testing purposes) acts like the click-hold wheel. This would be an issue with how WPF handles scrolling. It's capable of scrolling smoothly, but it won't do it through the scroll bar, nor the mouse wheel scroll function. Not very pretty.

What happens if you use the PageUp/PageDown buttons (or Shift-Space/Space)? Does the page instantly move to the previous/next page of text, or do you see a lag there too?

 Help links: WIKI;  Logos 6 FAQ. (Phil. 2:14, NIV)

Posts 24
Kenneth Grant Johnson | Forum Activity | Replied: Thu, Jul 21 2011 1:07 AM

Page-ups/downs are instant (although there's the occasional disk hiccup every 200 pages or so when holding down - I'm not worried about that).

The behaviour I'm seeing can be replicated holding down the up and down keys also. The system scrolls more smoothly across image sections than text sections - which technically I find a bit bizzare, unless each character or word is being broken up into a object that interacts with its neighbours or something to that effect.

I'm testing on page 17-28 of 131 Christians everyone needs to know in the Fullscreen layout I posted in the screenshot, with the default font size at 1080p resolution.

I haven't really used other WPF much outside of Visual Studio 2010, which is claimed to be built with WPF. So I can't really comment on if its a general issue with the technology or not.

This is not inhibiting the use of the application for me and is by no means a critical issue.

G

Posts 218
Dennis Miller | Forum Activity | Replied: Tue, Jul 26 2011 4:55 AM

When you have a field of thoroughbreds running down a track and there is one lagging behind the rest it's usually not the tracks fault, that lone horse is just not up to speed with the rest of the field. That is Logos on the Mac platform and the reason why blaming the hardware is a pitiful excuse when other applications run so much faster and better.

Posts 9854
Denise | Forum Activity | Replied: Tue, Jul 26 2011 6:26 AM

Dennis, I agree with you, but as I was reading your metaphor, I thought it would take the conclusion in the direction of a tired horse (i.e. computer).

I think an improved metaphor might be a track where only really strong horses can run; normal horses have trouble. In the image here, Logos4 would be the equivalent of building a track on the side of a steep hill.

Forum answer to pony running at the Hillside Track:

'Gee, when I run the Hillside Track, my pony has NO problem at all. Maybe you should try one of the wiki's on pony-running (hint, hint ... your horse needs more 'power').

'Huh? ... my pony runs well on all the other tracks. I don't understand why they put the track on a steep hill.'

'Well, son ... this track's meant for the 'big dogs' (ehhr ... big ponies). You shouldn't be on this track with that little pony of yours. You need a REAL pony like mine.'

Later after many discussions about pony-size, proper horseshoes, bridles, saddles, and rider-weight, versus the Hillside Track:

'Well, one thing you have to always remember. It's really not the track-people's fault that ponies have trouble here. It was built on a steep hill. It was the steep-hill people's fault.'

--

Now,  I'd agree, this doesn't quite fit either!


Posts 881
Brother Mark | Forum Activity | Replied: Tue, Jul 26 2011 6:44 AM

GeoPappas:

My biggest issue with Logos at this time is performance (or lack thereof).  I have a pretty high end machine..., but Logos is the worst performing application on my machine (by far).  For example, it takes 10 to 20 seconds just to startup Logos and get to the home page.  Opening a saved layout takes another 5-10 seconds.  It seems that almost everything is in slow motion.

 

Geo, Think back for a minute to the time when you had to go to your shelves (or the library!), select an armful of books, settle back in at the desk, open the books, find your place, etc, etc... the 20secs to get to the homepage (which, btw, you can turn off), then 10 secs to get to a layout.... well, there simply isn't a good comparison.  We all agree that faster is better, and I personally agree that Logos is my slowest performing application, however,  none of my other applications are sifting through every word of a thousand resources when I do a search (yes, yes, that doesn't speak to your stated issue: startup); but it sure is awesome when I'm comparing study methodologies instead of applications.  Left Hug

 

"I read dead people..."

Posts 218
Dennis Miller | Forum Activity | Replied: Tue, Jul 26 2011 8:46 AM

I don't think any Champion horse breeder would take a thoroughbred (Mac) and Crossbreed (Mono) with a plow horse (Windows) and expect to win any races let alone place. Just doesn't make for good horse sense. Big Smile

Posts 62
Mike T | Forum Activity | Replied: Thu, Aug 11 2011 9:52 AM

GeoPappas:

Does anyone know what the status of improving performance is at this point?

Here is another tip to improve performance...  I have a fairly high-end PC (Dell XPS 9000, i7-920, 9 gb RAM, ATI Radeon 5870, 1 Tb HD), but Logos 4 was taking almost a minute and a half to load.  (Incredible!)  Switching between the passage guide and home page took another 20-30 seconds.  I have the Logos icon in a Dell application call Dell Dock, and had noticed that the shortcut was not replaced the past few upgrades.  I deleted the shortcut, and replaced it with a fresh version.  Now Logos loads in only 9 seconds!  I don't know why this would make such a dramatic difference, but it did...

Mike

Posts 24345
Forum MVP
Dave Hooton | Forum Activity | Replied: Thu, Aug 11 2011 8:20 PM

The proper shortcut should use \Logos4\Logos4.exe; not the file in the \Logos4\System folder. Which are you using?

Dave
===

Windows & Android

Posts 62
Mike T | Forum Activity | Replied: Thu, Aug 11 2011 8:33 PM

Dave Hooton:

The proper shortcut should use \Logos4\Logos4.exe; not the file in the \Logos4\System folder. Which are you using?

The proper one...

Posts 24345
Forum MVP
Dave Hooton | Forum Activity | Replied: Thu, Aug 11 2011 9:29 PM

Michael:
The proper one...

Might be a shortcoming of the Dell Dock, then. I've not noticed any difference renewing my W7 shortcut.

Dave
===

Windows & Android

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