I know it's getting old...but here it is anyways. Point of view from a new user. Warning...kinda long.

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This post has 11 Replies | 2 Followers

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Fred H. | Forum Activity | Posted: Wed, Jul 20 2011 7:57 AM

I have decided this post is not appropriate and apologize for having posted it in the first place.

Grace, peace, love and joy to you all,

Fred Haberland

In His Peace, Fred

 “We love because he first loved us.” (1 John 4:19, ESV)

CBCWallace.org

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spitzerpl | Forum Activity | Replied: Wed, Jul 20 2011 8:30 AM

I think the tone of your post was genuine and mirrored a heart seeking Christ. Thank you.

I'm sure a big factor in Logos' decision making is making money. They have to do that to continue offering innovation and stay in business. I have absolutely no problem with this. I do not buy resources from Logos to keep them in business. I buy resources from Logos because the value I receive from their product is at the very least worth the price I pay.....OK. I also buy Logos resources so I can watch my library count rise....However there are many products I do not buy, and probably will never buy, because the value I receive from the product is less then the price I would have to pay.

I would only encourage you to consider this. If someone has a job and gets paid well for it is it fair to say their motives for working there must be primarily finance driven? I would argue that finances can still be secondary in such a case while serving the Lord and blessing others is primary. I would not rule this out for Bob, either. From what I have seen of Bob's heart, and the other employees at Logos, their heart is to bless people by providing tools that allow them to dig deeper into the word of God and they know they will not be able to do that if they do not turn a profit. I also believe they want to turn that profit with integrity, honesty, and honorably before God. That is why you can buy their product and get your money back in 30 days, regardless of the reason.

As far as calling Logos a Christian organization...I'm not sure how I feel about that. The Bible only speaks about one organization of Christians, the Church. I believe Logos is an organization composed primarily of Christians that target the larger Christian community, but their may be some wisdom in not calling it a "christian organization." I wouldn't fault someone who does. I suppose in the end I'm just glad there is a company named Logos that blesses me by helping me grow closer to my Lord. Whatever it should be called beyond that may be debatable, but the conclusion of the debate won't change that fact.

Posts 28
Fred H. | Forum Activity | Replied: Wed, Jul 20 2011 8:57 AM

Halo,

There is nothing wrong with making money.  And indeed I believe the ultimate purpose of Logos is for the betterment of Bible Study.  I just have to work things out in my mind.  I was a slave to sin for 30 years of my life and my only sense of church was as the world would see it and now I proceed as scripture lays it out.  So when I see "Christian" organizations I have to stop and remind myself of exactly what you are saying. And the reality of making more money allows for better software and resources is true and I have no doupt that is the noble goal of the founders.  Logos has helped me and would more so if I would learn how to use it.

In His Peace, Fred

 

In His Peace, Fred

 “We love because he first loved us.” (1 John 4:19, ESV)

CBCWallace.org

Posts 5573
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Rich DeRuiter | Forum Activity | Replied: Wed, Jul 20 2011 9:26 AM

Fred,

Let me say first that I'm not here to defend Logos. They can do that themselves, if they choose.

Praise God for His hand on your life in bringing you to Him! What a wonderful testimony of God's grace and mercy! Thanks for sharing it! It's always a joy to see how God works in people's lives and how we, by His grace and Spirit respond to Him.

As for the church being full of imperfect people, I share your frustration. As a pastor I see this, and have seen in for the nearly 25 years of my ministry. They can be selfish, rude, carnal, worldly, self-righteous, and all the rest. And sometimes it gets very frustrating. Of course, there's that pesky mirror that keeps reminding me that I'm not perfect either. And though I don't have the sin habits that some do, I have my own, and it's pretty humbling at times.

There are two things I think about, when I start to get a bit frustrated with the sheep. First, I remind myself that they're Jesus' sheep and He died for them too -- warts and all (as we say). He's at work sanctifying them, and that's a process. If he can be patient with them, I need to be too.

The second thing I think about is the early church. Things looked very ideal in Acts chapter 2, but it doesn't take long for the imperfections, in-fighting and power-struggles to show up. Reading through the epistles, we see more problems. Very few of the problems in the church today don't have echoes in the church of the New Testament. So I guess we're in pretty good (or at least normal company).

As for your struggle with Logos' marketing techniques, you seem to be keying in on deception as the problem. If you have not yet done so, why not take this issue up with Logos directly? They're always fairly open to hearing from their customers.

 Help links: WIKI;  Logos 6 FAQ. (Phil. 2:14, NIV)

Posts 3810
spitzerpl | Forum Activity | Replied: Wed, Jul 20 2011 9:43 AM

Fred H.:
I was a slave to sin for 30 years of my life

I was saved when I was 8 or 9. At 13 I made the decision that I would serve the Lord with my life, whatever that meant. I have recently been more and more burdened with how little of a distinction exists between the world and the Church. In many cases the distinction is in word only. We need to return to seeing the ugliness of sin and the beauty of Christ.

I suppose I'm venturing toward theology there but I just wanted to say PRAISE THE LORD for His wonderful deliverance, Abundant mercy, and overflowing grace. May we take full advantage of it...and move towards Christ.

I'm glad the Holy Spirit is at work in us to bring about such change. And I'm glad He has chosen to use Logos as a tool in the journey! Glad your on board, brother!

Posts 28
Fred H. | Forum Activity | Replied: Wed, Jul 20 2011 9:46 AM

Well said Richard.

 

Thanks for all your wise and truthful comments regarding the Church.  These are truths I’ve grown in and press forward with.

 

I have edited my post and ask you all please forgive me for my insinuation.  I should never have posted in the first place. 

 

In His Peace,

Fred

 

In His Peace, Fred

 “We love because he first loved us.” (1 John 4:19, ESV)

CBCWallace.org

Posts 5573
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Rich DeRuiter | Forum Activity | Replied: Wed, Jul 20 2011 10:35 AM

Fred H.:

 . . .

I have edited my post and ask you all please forgive me for my insinuation.  I should never have posted in the first place.

Very gracious of you.

I wasn't implying your post was inappropriate, though I do think it's not the best place to deal with the issue.

Fred H.:
Thanks for all your wise and truthful comments regarding the Church.  These are truths I’ve grown in and press forward with.

You're welcome, and keep pressing forward. BTW, sometimes we get to wondering which way "forward" is; forward is always closer to Jesus (Who is the Truth in a more significant sense than true things are 'true').

Life in Him just keeps getting better, doesn't it.

 Help links: WIKI;  Logos 6 FAQ. (Phil. 2:14, NIV)

Posts 493
Michael Anda | Forum Activity | Replied: Wed, Jul 20 2011 5:16 PM

Halo Hound:

I suppose I'm venturing toward theology there but I just wanted to say PRAISE THE LORD for His wonderful deliverance, Abundant mercy, and overflowing grace. May we take full advantage of it...and move towards Christ.

YesGeeked

 

 

 

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Bohuslav Wojnar | Forum Activity | Replied: Wed, Jul 20 2011 9:52 PM

Richard DeRuiter:
sometimes we get to wondering which way "forward" is; forward is always closer to Jesus (Who is the Truth in a more significant sense than true things are 'true').

Amen Yes

Bohuslav

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Jack Caviness | Forum Activity | Replied: Sat, Jul 23 2011 5:49 PM

Halo Hound:

Fred H.:
I was a slave to sin for 30 years of my life

I was saved when I was 8 or 9.

Praise the Lord that He spared you from the turmoil some of us endured prior to coming to our senses and trusting Christ.

Fred, I was 34, a drunk, a blasphemer, and a professed atheist—but God is gracious who delivered me from all that and allowed me to shepherd some of His flocks.

But God… Now, wouldn't that make an excellent sermon topic?

Posts 493
Michael Anda | Forum Activity | Replied: Sat, Jul 23 2011 5:59 PM

Jack Caviness:
But God… Now, wouldn't that make an excellent sermon topic?

AMEN :)

 

 

 

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Rich DeRuiter | Forum Activity | Replied: Sat, Jul 23 2011 6:16 PM

Jack Caviness:
But God… Now, wouldn't that make an excellent sermon topic?

There are times when that word "But" can be my favorite word in the Bible!

 Help links: WIKI;  Logos 6 FAQ. (Phil. 2:14, NIV)

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