Suggestion: Allowing husband and wives to share one Logos 4 license

DonaldGFisher said:

Sounds like it is time to take ownership of her computer.  Seems to be the easiest solution to me. 

Let me know how that works!

don

[;)]

 

DonaldGFisher said:

Sounds like it is time to take ownership of her computer.  Seems to be the easiest solution to me. 

Correct, sometimes the easiest way to get what you want is to be dishonest.

Last July Bob Pritchett posted the following:

Bob Pritchett Replied: Thu, Jul 16 2009 12:14 PM

Arrgghhh! I hate this topic. :-)

We have lots of heated discussions about this internally. Every other week we get the desperate-to-be-legal-and-ethical user who calls to confirm that they can install the software on their desktop and notebook computer. The other weeks we hear about the every-loophole-finding user who wants to parse our latest statement on the EULA to let them install the software on every machine they see, and to charge people for the service.

I am not going to answer all your questions. Ever. I don't want to. I don't want a clean-cut policy, because it just annoys the honest user who has a legitimate situation while doing nothing to stop the person who justifies-to-themselves whatever behavior they want.

So what follow is still not "the final answer." It's a guide, similar to what I tell our CS people. (Who all wish I wouldn't give them discretion, but would instead make an easy-to-refer-to policy. :-) )

We license the software to one user.

If you are one user with 10 computers, because you run a Mac, Windows, notebook, netbook, desktop, church, home, and three flavors of Linux, I don't care. You're just one user, albeit with too many computers.

(People call up and say "how many computers can I put it on?" We don't care, if they're all YOUR computers. When we say "3", as we used to, for convenience, we'd get people who called with lengthy and unnecessary explanations for why they owned four computers. We'd also get people who would install it on the Pastor, Youth Pastor, and Sunday School Teacher's computers. And we'd say that was wrong, and they'd say "You said three computers for one owner, and the church is the owner, so it's legal to put it on three computers used by people who work at the church." I say, that's abusing the license.)

What about my spouse? What about my child?

Well, now it depends. Are you and your spouse "one user"? I know lots of people who have a single email address like JoeAndMary@somemail.com. They have one computer, one email address, one copy of Windows, (one car? one cell phone?) etc. To me, they're "one user." Same thing when little Joey uses the family computer.

But if we extend the license to "officially" allow family use, we get (actual) scenarios like: Joe and Mary are both ordained ministers who attend and preach at different churches on Sunday morning. Each has an office, their own computer, their own salary and budget, and even their own church secretary. This, to me, doesn't feel like "one user". This feels like two users.

We also get Pastor Joe who has a 22 year old son Joe, Jr. in seminary, or a 35 year old son who is a pastor across the country. We've had people tell us they don't need multiple licenses, because they're family members. But Pastor Joe and grown-up Joe, Jr. seem like two users to me.

What if the user is a church, not a person?

It's great if the church wants to buy the software so the pastor doesn't have to buy it with their own funds. But that doesn't mean everyone who works at or attends the church is a legal user of the software (as some have tried to argue). It's still for "one person user"; thay can be Pastor Joe, and if Pastor Joe leaves, you can have him uninstall it and let new Pastor Mark use it instead. But we don't do site or organization licenses -- we license to a (human) user, even if an institution is the purchaser.

In the future, our software will use more web resources. You will be able to log into these resources -- and your own content -- at Logos.com using an email address and password. Our interaction will be with this "one user" who logs in, and who has one username, one email address, one mailing address, one name, one credit card, and one password. One set of note files, prayer lists, and reading plans. "One user."

I hope this helps. For the record, this email is not a replacement of the EULA or a new policy. It's just how I think about it, and how I encourage our staff to think about it.

-- Bob

I may not answer all your questions, but it may help.

Yours because His,

Floyd

Really, this isn't a good time to re-hash the EULA thing.
BobP said he just hates talking about it and things must be really jumping around Logos HQ this week. I am sure the move towards cloud computing will get the EULA addressed in the future. For now,look up what has already been said about it in the forum.

Joe Miller said:

DonaldGFisher said:

Sounds like it is time to take ownership of her computer.  Seems to be the easiest solution to me. 

Correct, sometimes the easiest way to get what you want is to be dishonest.

Joe,  My smiley face winking [;)]   is in relation to prying her fingers of the laptop. Not a pretense of "transfering" ownership. Some wives might tighten their grip on their laptops.

Matthew C Jones said:

Joe,  My smiley face winking    is in relation to prying her fingers of the laptop. Not a pretense of "transfering" ownership. Some wives might tighten their grip on their laptops.

ah, that does make me feel better.  When we were going through the beta process, I learned how there are actually folks out there "selling" their one licensed copy of Scholars Gold and installing it on many many many computers. There are cracks out there that let people unlock books for free.  It made me sad to think that this happens with Bible software.  It also means that for every dime not rightly paid to Logos, there is less money for development of new tools for me and you.  

Anyway, thanks for making your smiley face clear brother :-)

Matthew 19:5-6 (ESV)


5 and said, ‘Therefore a man shall leave his father and his mother and hold fast to his wife, and the two shall become one flesh’? 6 So they are no longer two but one flesh. What therefore God has joined together, let not man separate.”

 

Joe Miller said:

When we were going through the beta process, I learned how there are actually folks out there "selling" their one licensed copy of Scholars Gold and installing it on many many many computers. There are cracks out there that let people unlock books for free.  It made me sad to think that this happens with Bible software.  It also means that for every dime not rightly paid to Logos, there is less money for development of new tools for me and you.

Yes, it must be heartbreaking to God since He sees every one of them. And lest anyone be tempted by those illegal software sources, if you swim with the sharks they will eat you alive. It is an ugly world under the surface. There are a lot of malicious "cracks" and torrents. I have had to clean many a hard drive for users that violated God's standards and opened the door for evil.

Software functionality is sacrificed when overly stringent security measures are imposed like dongles, or CD insertion. Can you imagine having to scan your thumbprint to access Logos 5? And voice recognition for Logos 6?

 

Lynden Williams said:

Sounds like you have the inside scoop Matthew. If software piracy keeps up, Logos may have to resort to such measures. Actually they may not have a choice. The publishers may demand it.

I really hope not. In the 90's my computers could not fit on the desktop because of the many dongles attached to the back. Piracy has killed a lot of good companies and deterred many developers from producing new material. Why go to all the work and expense just to give it away?

I think Bible software has one unseen protection other software doesn't benefit from. Most users probably proclaim their faith in God. If a user is truly a child of God, their quickened conscience and the ever present Holy Spirit won't let them be at peace while they have sin hidden in their heart.  That works better than anything the Software Publishers Association can do to combat piracy.  Of course there are those unsaved who for whatever reason want the software.

Another thing: Government sponsored software piracy is a real danger too. The Russian Fedreation and communiust China have factories that produce glitzy packaging and bootleg software. It even has the Microsoft holograms and all.  It is easy to unwittingly purchase what looks like the real thing.

RichardStimson said:

I do not know the answer.  People steal software and do not think of it as stealing (yes even Christians).  Yet I do think I should be able to share my electronic books with my wife just as I do with my paper books.  But yes, we are two users.

Richard,

Have you read Floyd's re-post of Bob Pritchett's comments on this? It is the 7th post in this thread. (Bob is the CEO of Logos, in case you don't know that.)

It seems fairly clear it is acceptable for her to read your electronic book. If she however installs the whole Logos program and resource library and is using it professionally to teach, preach, or whatever. They say she should have her own license. It is also clear they don't want a network of computers set up in the church library for 15 people to be using one license.  You and your wife should know where you fall in this picture.

I have seen some users who have one license on 2 desktops (church office & home computers.) There are those who use one laptop and one desktop. I have even heard of a preacher that uses one church office computer, one home desktop and one netbook for on the road. Logos has been kind enough to maintain flexibility for their user base.  It would be easy to say "let your conscience be your guide" but some users have a much duller conscience than others.

I can't tell you where to draw the line. Sharing with your non-professional wife using the same hardware is probably no problem. I do think if you are sharing in a wider circlle, maybe it is beyond the scope of one license. Even a second license would not allow a whole group to access your library.....

(Just my 2 cents worth (and in today's economy that is only 1.4 cents)

 

Or Logos could do what Apple does with some of their software. Offer a "Family Pack" that allows the user to purchase two or three licenses in a bundle at a discount of what it'd cost to purchase two copies of the same software. Not sure how this would work for individual unlocks, but for base collections (especially the pricier ones), it might help.

Sometimes it is as clear as mud?!?!?

I think the following statement came from Bob P:

But if we extend the license to "officially" allow family use, we
get (actual) scenarios like: Joe and Mary are both ordained ministers
who attend and preach at different churches on Sunday morning. Each has
an office, their own computer, their own salary and budget, and even
their own church secretary. This, to me, doesn't feel like "one user".
This feels like two users.

Well my wife and I came off our honeymoon and started the ministry we now serve in.  I work out of our home and do have an office.  My wife is a teacher.  We have one computer at home and one in the office.  But she is also on staff with the ministry.  28 years ago she would use my Vines and Strongs today she uses my Logos.  Not thinking I am hard hearted, but open to correction.  Also, she may have (28 yrs ago) at times use some of my books at a ladies Bible study.  At that moment that book was not available to me.  I guess it is one of the downsides of electronic books.  The upside makes up for it, but it is a downside.  A downside that has come from people misusing their electronic books, not by Logos.

 

 

Floyd Johnson said:

Our interaction will be with this "one user" who logs in, and who has one username, one email address, one mailing address, one name, one credit card, and one password. One set of note files, prayer lists, and reading plans. "One user."

Bob must have been meditating on Eph 4:5 [:)]

Floyd Johnson said:

We also get Pastor Joe who has a 22 year old son Joe, Jr. in seminary, or a 35 year old son who is a pastor across the country...  But Pastor Joe and grown-up Joe, Jr. seem like two users to me.

Joe Miller - was Bob prophesying about you...? [:)]

The problem is we are talking about duplication, not transference.  It's just as illegal for one to make a physical copy of a book as it is for one to make a digital copy.

That's understandable. It's hard sometimes to distinguish between "books" and "software", especially when your dealing with the intertwining of the both.

LOGOS 4's interfunctionality with different media options opens a whole new set of problems.

RQuanstrom said:

LOGOS 4's interfunctionality with different media options opens a whole new set of problems

 

In my mind....it's clear. Like the bible's admonition on those "grey areas" that aren't spelled out...

You KNOW if what you're doing is either the right thing to do...or the wrong thing to do....

 

Bob has said....if you just want your wife to be able to use the software...then have at it...but if your aim is to scam a free copy for your "pastor of another church" wife...then you ALREADY know the answer...right?

 

It doesn't seem that hard to me.

In the end it will always come down to "What's worth more to you, your money or your soul?"  The flexibility of your conscience will be directly related to your value system.  If you value your soul you will be willing to part with mere money to protect it. If you value money you will sell your soul cheaply.

 

As pastors it is our duty to lead by example. As churches we will forfeit most of the only currency we have that is of worth- our moral authority - if we sponsor or even condone theft (IT IS NOT PIRACY, that involves ships at sea) or dishonesty.  If you feel compelled to steal a bible or bible software why not find a more worldly position and forget religion altogether.

 

 

Matthew C Jones said:

So a polygamist can let all his wives use one license?

 

Hey...that Pharisee hat you've got on is a little crooked...

Matthew C Jones said:

So a polygamist can let all his wives use one license?

Absolutely.  I do it all the time. [6] [6] [6]

Just remember that you are buying these books at a 90% reduction over print prices!  

It would be nice if Logos would consider a half price subscription for spouses.  That would end the conversation!

Folks,

The Logos rep at this weekend's Family & Marriage Seminar by Jimmy & Karen Evans at Trinity Fellowship Church in Amarillo, said it was okay for husbands and wives to share the software. He said, "Since a husband and wife are in a covenant and are one under God it is one piece of software for one." Enjoy this fine piece of product...

Patrick J. King Ph.D.