Ian Paisley on my Home Page

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Graham Owen | Forum Activity | Posted: Thu, Jul 28 2011 5:26 AM

Given the recent events in Norway and Ian Paisley's long association with a form of Christianity that builds as much on hatred (especially for Catholics and Muslims) as love I was shocked to see a collection of his books promoted by Logos via my home page this week.

God Bless

Graham

Pastor - NTCOG Basingstoke

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George Somsel | Forum Activity | Replied: Thu, Jul 28 2011 6:42 AM

Graham Owen:

Given the recent events in Norway and Ian Paisley's long association with a form of Christianity that builds as much on hatred (especially for Catholics and Muslims) as love I was shocked to see a collection of his books promoted by Logos via my home page this week.

The same name doesn't always indicate the same person.  Perhaps they are different Ian Paisleys ?

george
gfsomsel

יְמֵי־שְׁנוֹתֵינוּ בָהֶם שִׁבְעִים שָׁנָה וְאִם בִּגְבוּרֹת שְׁמוֹנִים שָׁנָה וְרָהְבָּם עָמָל וָאָוֶן

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Ted Hans | Forum Activity | Replied: Thu, Jul 28 2011 6:57 AM

Graham Owen:

Given the recent events in Norway and Ian Paisley's long association with a form of Christianity that builds as much on hatred (especially for Catholics and Muslims) as love I was shocked to see a collection of his books promoted by Logos via my home page this week.

Having read most of the titles contained in the collection i did not find anything objectionable in them. That is, If you are referencing this collection here http://www.logos.com/product/7221/ian-r-k-paisley-collection

Ted

 

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Graham Owen | Forum Activity | Replied: Thu, Jul 28 2011 7:05 AM

George Somsel:
The same name doesn't always indicate the same person.  Perhaps they are different Ian Paisleys ?

Unfortunately this is not the case, as can be seen from the biography on the prepublication page which says:

About Ian R. K. Paisley

Ian R. C. Paisley, born in 1926, is a Northern Ireland theologian, politician, and the founder of the Free Presbyterian Church. A member of Parliament for over thirty years, he was a clergyman for even longer. His political activism and influence in the Free Presbyterian Church have left a lasting mark in Northern Ireland, and all five of his children are highly involved with either politics or theology.

Most in England would agree that he has "left a lasting mark in Northern Ireland" but not in a good way.

BTW - I am not suggesting that Logos should not include his material for those who want it I just think that it is insensitive to promote the materials of someone who has supported violence in the context of religious struggle so soon after the massacre in Norway.

God Bless

Graham

Pastor - NTCOG Basingstoke

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Mike Binks | Forum Activity | Replied: Thu, Jul 28 2011 7:25 AM

Graham Owen:

Given the recent events in Norway and Ian Paisley's long association with a form of Christianity that builds as much on hatred (especially for Catholics and Muslims) as love I was shocked to see a collection of his books promoted by Logos via my home page this week.

Ian Paisley was not a saint, but he was, in general a good man and a very good church leader.

I am not sure of the evidence but it was said that while he was a politician the only way that he could have been elected with such thumping majorities was because a lot of his catholic electorate were secretly voting for him. Why? Because he was a good, hard working and fair constituency MP.

Ian Paisley was not a religious pluralist, he was not ecumenical, and he had a very strong objection to some Catholic doctrine.

I haven't read any of his books but living, as I did for a while, just a few doors down from his Belfast Church I did read some of his tracts. I thought that they were both well written and challenging.

Best read (or ignore the offer) and then comment on his actual writing rather than his TV or press persona.

Posts 999
Mike Pettit | Forum Activity | Replied: Thu, Jul 28 2011 7:34 AM

This condemnation of "a form of Christianity" is completely against the forum guidelines. I may not like certain other forms for what seem to me to be excellent moral reasons but it would be inappropriate for me to campaign on this forum for works associated to this form to be withdrawn.

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Graham Owen | Forum Activity | Replied: Thu, Jul 28 2011 7:51 AM

Mike Binks:
Best read (or ignore the offer) and then comment on his actual writing rather than his TV or press persona.

Growing up I remember that Ian Paisley and his rival Gerry Adams were constantly in the news defending the latest nationalist or republican atrocity and threatening retribution. Violence was clearly the native language of both men, they never held their punches and they were not ashamed to condone the violence of their own supporters whilst condemning that of the other. The violence of the marches organised by the nationalists but which deliberately went through areas populated by republicans has left scars in Northern Ireland that remain to this day.

Mike Binks:
he was, in general a good man and a very good church leader.

Whilst this may be true it stands at odds with much of what he has said and done and when we are prepared to accept Christian leaders who promote the level of violence that he has, even if it is in his role as a politician, we should not be surprised to see violence like that in Norway last week performed in the name of Christianity.

From the 1970's to today I have seen the consequences, albeit from a safe distance, of the words and actions of this man in the violence and division of Northern Ireland in this context I was simply surprised to see his resources promoted on my Home Page this week.

God Bless

Graham

Pastor - NTCOG Basingstoke

Posts 611
Graham Owen | Forum Activity | Replied: Thu, Jul 28 2011 8:00 AM

Mike Pettit:
This condemnation of "a form of Christianity" is completely against the forum guidelines. I may not like certain other forms for what seem to me to be excellent moral reasons but it would be inappropriate for me to campaign on this forum for works associated to this form to be withdrawn.

I am not seeking to have the books withdrawn and for those who want to read them that is fine. My point is around the lack of sensitivity displayed by those responsible for pushing advertising content to the home page given what happened in Norway last week. I was genuinely shocked to see the works of Ian Paisley, a man whose words and actions over the years have advocated violence, promoted on my Home Page so soon after what happened.

Forum guidelines may stop me from complaining about a form of Christianity but they should not stop me from questioning the appropriateness of a specific piece of Logos marketing.

God Bless

Graham

Pastor - NTCOG Basingstoke

Posts 611
Graham Owen | Forum Activity | Replied: Thu, Jul 28 2011 8:04 AM

Ted Hans:
Having read most of the titles contained in the collection i did not find anything objectionable in them

The issue is not the books my concern is the timing of the marketing activity associated with them considering the events in Norway and the views of the author regarding violence and the protection of the Christian faith.

God Bless

Graham

Pastor - NTCOG Basingstoke

Posts 44
Bob Fuller | Forum Activity | Replied: Thu, Jul 28 2011 9:08 AM

I believe that Mike Pettit's 7:34 a.m. reply is really the only significant one. This forum is not up for the criticism of the form of Christianity. If the resource is useful - fine. If not, then ignore it.

Also, I have seen no direct or even indirect link between Norway and Dr. Paisley.

Posts 611
Graham Owen | Forum Activity | Replied: Thu, Jul 28 2011 10:04 AM

Bob Fuller:
I have seen no direct or even indirect link between Norway and Dr. Paisley.

The Police across Europe are looking for possible links between the perpetrator in Norway and right wing "Christian" political groups this will almost certainly include the Democratic Unionist Party.

 

Bob Fuller:
I believe that Mike Pettit's 7:34 a.m. reply is really the only significant one. This forum is not up for the criticism of the form of Christianity.

As I have already said, this is not about the views it is about a marketing strategy that promotes the author of those views within days of a major tragedy that links Christianity with violence and murder.

God Bless

Graham

Pastor - NTCOG Basingstoke

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MJ. Smith | Forum Activity | Replied: Thu, Jul 28 2011 12:25 PM

While I can understand your concern, I believe the timing of the ad for Paisley to be connected to release dates not current events. I also believe that the root cause of the Irish fiasco has little in common with the events in Norway. I also believe that it would be inappropriate to act as if there were a direct connection between Paisley and the perpetrator in Norway. Police looking for links is very different that police having found direct links.

I would much rather we spend our time offering prayers for the victims, their families, and the country of Norway than worrying about Paisley. But then, in my family, my Mother is the designated worrier in all matters.

I also agree with Mike Pettit & Bob Fuller that while your concern is genuinely founded on the timing, there is an implication of criticism that is not in the spirit of the forums. Having been the target of such criticism, I do have some accidental expertise in that area.

Orthodox Bishop Hilarion Alfeyev: "To be a theologian means to have experience of a personal encounter with God through prayer and worship."

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George Somsel | Forum Activity | Replied: Thu, Jul 28 2011 12:44 PM

MJ. Smith:
I would much rather we spend our time offering prayers for the victims, their families, and the country of Norway than worrying about Paisley. But then, in my family, my Mother is the designated worrier in all matters.

 

  What, Me Worry?

george
gfsomsel

יְמֵי־שְׁנוֹתֵינוּ בָהֶם שִׁבְעִים שָׁנָה וְאִם בִּגְבוּרֹת שְׁמוֹנִים שָׁנָה וְרָהְבָּם עָמָל וָאָוֶן

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MJ. Smith | Forum Activity | Replied: Thu, Jul 28 2011 12:51 PM

Thanks George ... he and Bill the Cat are my secular heroes.

Orthodox Bishop Hilarion Alfeyev: "To be a theologian means to have experience of a personal encounter with God through prayer and worship."

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