Logos 4 - Drinking from a firehose

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This post has 18 Replies | 2 Followers

Posts 29
jmcbade | Forum Activity | Posted: Thu, Jul 28 2011 4:56 PM

I suppose I will get a lot of disagreement from some users of Logos 4, but I am going to put this out there anyway.  My goal is not to create contention, but is in hopes of some practical suggestions.

Sometimes, less is more:

My background is about 25 years working in the software industry as a field engineer, trainer and developer.  I feel that experience might make my opinion have at least some credibility here.

I know L4MAC is supposed to be faster, more intuitive and all super cool, but I find it cluttered and overkill for simple study.  I preferred the Libronix for MAC product for the majority of my study, using L4MAC when I need to dig deeper.  All the bells and whistles seem to just muddy the essence of what I am looking for and the updating of all these features in real time for their respective windows, just slows down the functionality / performance.

What I wish this product had, was something like a workspace mode that would give me the look, feel and functionality scaled back, simplified like the old product, that could then be switched to give all the stuff it gives now when wanted and needed.

Unfortunately now, with updates to Safari and eventually if I want to go to Lion, both these factors have made Libronix for MAC unusable.  Very sad!

L4MAC lovers, please don't hate on me, but if you have tips and tricks you can suggest, I am most grateful.

L4MAC developers, I hope you are listening and considering this as positive feedback.

Blessings,

-John

Posts 502
Randall Hartman | Forum Activity | Replied: Thu, Jul 28 2011 5:01 PM

I agree, you will get a lot of disagreement.  My tip is for you to switch to Olive Tree or if that is too complex download the Bible on a Kindle where you can do simple word searches.

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JT (alabama24) | Forum Activity | Replied: Thu, Jul 28 2011 5:04 PM

John - 

First, welcome to the forums!

I have not used the old Logos for Mac, so I can't compare the two. When you say "scaled back," can you describe what you mean? Is it possible for you to create a custom layout that gives you what you want? As for the performance - I agree with you and am hoping that Logos is able to make significant strives in this area. 

By the way, Logos is looking for new Mac developers. I don't know where you live or what your situation in life is like, but Washington is Wonderful! Smile

OSX & iOS | Logs |  Install

Posts 29
jmcbade | Forum Activity | Replied: Thu, Jul 28 2011 5:09 PM

I actually have those; Olive Tree on my IOS device and the Bible on Kindle.  They are too terse for the study I am doing.

What I would like to see is something that approximates the look and fee of the Libronix for MAC product.

Thanks,

-John

Posts 29
jmcbade | Forum Activity | Replied: Thu, Jul 28 2011 5:11 PM

I left the corporate world with a desire to serve in the ministry full time.  It has been my wife's and my desire for a very long time.

I am a full time missionary now, serving in Japan :)  It will be six years now in September.

Thanks,

 

-John

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Jack Caviness | Forum Activity | Replied: Thu, Jul 28 2011 5:34 PM

jmcbade:
I suppose I will get a lot of disagreement from some users of Logos 4

I am one of those who disagrees with you. For me, Libronix for Mac was a huge disappointment.  L4 Mac 1.2.1 was barely usable for serious Bible study. What you say you want can be found in many free applications.

jmcbade:
L4MAC developers, I hope you are listening and considering this as positive feedback.

Personally, I hope they do not waste time duplicating what can be had free elsewhere.

Not meaning to he harsh. Just stating one reason for my disagreement.

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JT (alabama24) | Forum Activity | Replied: Thu, Jul 28 2011 5:35 PM

Konichiwa! (that's about all I remember from 9 months of an exchange student living with us as a kid). 

Is your primary concern speed or layout simplicity? How long have you been using L4? I am sure someone with experience in the old version will chime in soon enough. 

OSX & iOS | Logs |  Install

Posts 10177
Denise | Forum Activity | Replied: Thu, Jul 28 2011 6:40 PM

Well, jmcbade, I kind of view Logos like a 2-car garage.

Now, you have your Nissan March that's good for work, groceries and any ole thing.

Parked next to it is your right-hand-steering Jaguar, that almost never runs good but it does look cool and don't forget those 12 cylinders under the hood. Turning heads it what it's all about. Of course you NEED it because, who knows, you might really NEED to speed on the Tomei (if you get it past 60 kliks anyway).

L3 starts right up, delivers a nice comfortable ride, no fuss, no muss. L4 on other hand just growls POWER! Kind of like on Tim the Toolman.


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Keep Smiling 4 Jesus :) | Forum Activity | Replied: Thu, Jul 28 2011 9:00 PM

jmcbade:
Unfortunately now, with updates to Safari and eventually if I want to go to Lion, both these factors have made Libronix for MAC unusable.  Very sad!

Apologies: can open Libronix 1.2.2 while running Safari 5.1 on Snow Leopard 10.6.8 (with supplemental update 1):

Note: did need to reenter Logos Customer Id and Confirmation Code for an existing user.

Libronix 1.2.2 is an universal application (Get Info has check box for "Open with Rosetta"):

Personally not have Rosetta installed (preparation for OS X Lion upgrade later this year).

Trying Libronix 1.2.2 examples then "Go" found Bible Word Study no longer works:

Also learned Passage Guide, Exegetical Guide, Compare Bible Versions, Parallel Bible Versions, Passage in All Versions, and Information Window no longer work.  Appears Libronix 1.2.2 has essentially become an e-Book reader with some search capabilities.

jmcbade:
L4MAC lovers, please don't hate on me, but if you have tips and tricks you can suggest, I am most grateful.

Wiki Getting Started with Logos page has many useful tips and links.  Workspaces in Libronix 1.2.2 became Layouts in Logos 4.

Logos 4 Home Page "Go" combined and replaced three "Go" options in older Libronix (study Passage, Word, or Topic): 

Logos 4 search capabilities are much faster than Libronix 1.2.2 along with finding more information.  However, Libronix 1.2.2 is quicker to install and add resources (Logos 4 needs to locally index resources, which can take hours).

Keep Smiling Smile

Posts 453
Mike S. | Forum Activity | Replied: Thu, Jul 28 2011 9:23 PM

I must say, I prefer the Libronix for Mac "floating window" orientation with Expose/Mission Control to trying to manage everything in one central control window. 

The closest I've found to that is to move away from using the main window for much of anything and instead promiscuous use of "Open in a Floating Window"... then I manage via expose application windows hot key. Many of my Layouts have the following as floating windows:

1. Library with the collection window tabbed behind it

2. Comparison text floating window -- a floating window with a number of bible texts to compare versions in a parallel format

I also have shortcuts on the toolbar for the following:

  • Layout "1 Tile"
  • Layout "2 Tiles"
  • "Close All"

Reading view is another KEY to clear the distractions: SHIFT+CMD+F

I hope this helps and I feel your pain!

Posts 8967
RIP
Matthew C Jones | Forum Activity | Replied: Thu, Jul 28 2011 10:14 PM

Keep Smiling 4 Jesus :):

1):

That is oh so pretty. How come windows doesn't look that good? Sad

 

Logos 7 Collectors Edition

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Keep Smiling 4 Jesus :) | Forum Activity | Replied: Thu, Jul 28 2011 10:20 PM

Super Tramp:

That is oh so pretty. How come windows doesn't look that good? Sad

Seem to remember Logos outsourcing development of Libronix version 1 for Mac (and waiting many months); then bringing Mac development within company for Logos 4.

Keep Smiling Smile

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Mike Binks | Forum Activity | Replied: Fri, Jul 29 2011 2:17 AM

Mike S.:
I must say, I prefer the Libronix for Mac "floating window" orientation with Expose/Mission Control to trying to manage everything in one central control window. 

Mike - I love you! I thought I was a lone voice crying out against the awful 'Logos Box' and default panelling algorithm.

Mike S.:
The closest I've found to that is to move away from using the main window for much of anything and instead promiscuous use of "Open in a Floating Window"... then I manage via expose application windows hot key. Many of my Layouts have the following as floating windows:

Works for me and layouts seem to hold over duel monitors if not over separate spaces.

USERS OF THE WORLD UNITE AND CAST OFF YOUR CHAINS

Posts 82
Andrew Hanson | Forum Activity | Replied: Fri, Jul 29 2011 11:15 AM

Honestly, I wonder how much simpler things could get.

It seems to me that your needs can be met by simply using the Passage Guide and the Exegetical Guide. If those are too complex, then you can always make your own guide that has everything in it that you want to look at. Logos 4 is as simple as you want to make it. 

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Jack Caviness | Forum Activity | Replied: Fri, Jul 29 2011 7:55 PM

Super Tramp:
How come windows doesn't look that good? Sad

Could it be that Windows doesn't look that good simply because it is Windows? Big Smile

Posts 9946
George Somsel | Forum Activity | Replied: Fri, Jul 29 2011 9:11 PM

Jack Caviness:

Super Tramp:
How come windows doesn't look that good? Sad

Could it be that Windows doesn't look that good simply because it is Windows? Big Smile

Actually, I think the Windows version looks better, but then (to parody the ad for Blue Bonnet Margarine) "Everythings better with Windows on it."  Big Smile

george
gfsomsel

יְמֵי־שְׁנוֹתֵינוּ בָהֶם שִׁבְעִים שָׁנָה וְאִם בִּגְבוּרֹת שְׁמוֹנִים שָׁנָה וְרָהְבָּם עָמָל וָאָוֶן

Posts 10
Mike Boorman | Forum Activity | Replied: Wed, Sep 7 2011 6:51 AM

"Logos 4 search capabilities are much faster than Libronix 1.2.2 along with finding more information.  However, Libronix 1.2.2 is quicker to install and add resources (Logos 4 needs to locally index resources, which can take hours)."

 

I ran some tests on my MacBook Pro (13", mid-2010, Core 2 Duo 2.4GHz, 8GB RAM) before upgrading to my new one.  I'm still looking for the text file I put the results in but Libronix 1.2.2 beat Logos 4 Mac in startup time and search result time by a wide margin.  This is really my biggest thing.  I simply love the layout and abilities of Logos 4 but so far it simply doesn't compare to Libronix 1.2.2 when it comes to interface and search speed.  This could simply be the give-and-take that comes with having so many more features in Logos 4 and if that's the case I'll just have to learn to live with it.

In short, I'm adding a -1 to the statement that Logos 4 is faster than Libronix 1.2.2.  So far, I haven't seen that to be the case at all.

Posts 310
Michael Hite | Forum Activity | Replied: Fri, Sep 9 2011 10:29 AM

One thing that may help is learn to build layouts (they were called workspaces in previous versions) and strip it down to just what you need when you need it. I have a number of layouts set up that range from simply Bible reading to advanced exegetical studies. Try creating simple layouts with just what you want available.

2015 13" MacBook Pro - 2 Ghz Intel i7 - 16 GB RAM - 500GB SSD - 2018 iMac Pro - 3.2GHz 8-core Xeon - both systems running OS 10.14.3 (Mojave)

 

Posts 5
Trey Boden | Forum Activity | Replied: Mon, Sep 12 2011 5:52 AM

Michael Hite:
One thing that may help is learn to build layouts

Michael - I was about to post a reply similar to yours!  John - I have the opportunity to serve as the Logos guru for our teaching staff (11 pastors across three campuses).  The most consistent frustration is the complexity and 'slowness' of the system.  I can't tell you how important layouts are for performance and usefulness.  I would suggest a workspace such as this:

 

  1. Two Bibles one formal and one formative (Linked Together)
  2. Create a 'Commentaries Only' guide
  3. Open up the highlighting pane
  4. Open a new note for each day or the passage you are studying.

 

Save this as a layout and then use it as a 'go to' for intermediate bible study.  I hope this helps!  In my experience this small tweak goes a long way!

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