Sermon File Addin?

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This post has 78 Replies | 8 Followers

Posts 4
Dr. Derrick Reaves | Forum Activity | Posted: Fri, Aug 5 2011 5:20 AM

What is the status of the Sermon file addin to be released the second quarter 2011?

 

 

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JT (alabama24) | Forum Activity | Replied: Fri, Aug 5 2011 6:44 AM

Dr. Reaves - 

On the "missing features" page, it says that the Sermon File will be "re-designed; partially replaced by the forthcoming Personal Book Builder, supplemented by a to-be-released web site." The PBB is currently in Beta, and should be released very soon! I apologize, I do not know about the current plans for the "to-be-released website."

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Posts 26
James Paton | Forum Activity | Replied: Thu, Aug 11 2011 8:43 AM

Now that PBB is here how does one add sermons to the previously built sermon file?

Posts 908
Brother Mark | Forum Activity | Replied: Thu, Aug 11 2011 8:58 AM

James Paton:

Now that PBB is here how does one add sermons to the previously built sermon file?

For such a simple question, the answer is surprisingly multi-faceted.  Apologies in advance.

  1. If the "previously built sermon file" is in .docx (MS Word) format, then you need to decide whether you are going to build a single book of sermons, or a new book for each sermon.  I highly recommend a single book, properly tagged and with milestones so that it is searchable within L4, Vs. the one-PBB-Book-Per-Sermon approach.  So! You'd simply markup the sermon within Word, then within L4 click Tools --> Personal Books --> Add Books (I recommend reading the "How-To" first before clicking on "Add Books")
  2. If the sermon file you refer to is in L3 format, then hopefully you still have the source Word file, and you can follow the sketched procedure above.

No matter what, you have some roll-up-your-sleeves-work ahead of you.  Both the forums and the wiki have a ton of posts about how to do it from scratch.  Specifically, I think you'll find this article helpful: http://wiki.logos.com/compare.aspx?id=911a9d13-acb5-4d46-81f7-d4450fea1ab4&before=51&after=52

 

"I read dead people..."

Posts 5337
Kevin Becker | Forum Activity | Replied: Thu, Aug 11 2011 10:08 AM

James Paton:

Now that PBB is here how does one add sermons to the previously built sermon file?

In addition to Brother Mark's helpful comments you can add multiple .docx files to a PBB, so you can either add individual sermon Word files to a book or you could keep expanding a master sermon docx. I'll probably do the latter because after a while the list of sermons files used by the book would grow unwieldy.

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Brother Mark | Forum Activity | Replied: Thu, Aug 11 2011 10:58 AM

Kevin Becker:

James Paton:

Now that PBB is here how does one add sermons to the previously built sermon file?

In addition to Brother Mark's helpful comments you can add multiple .docx files to a PBB, so you can either add individual sermon Word files to a book or you could keep expanding a master sermon docx. I'll probably do the latter because after a while the list of sermons files used by the book would grow unwieldy.

Yes

"I read dead people..."

Posts 33
Stephen Coles | Forum Activity | Replied: Wed, Aug 17 2011 11:40 AM

As far as I understand it, the sermon file (the compiled version) and the separate source files (with all the tags added) are in a Logos format, not .docx (my previous individual sermons were prepared in a .doc file but, having converted them to the Logos sermon file for compiling, I didn't bother keeping them - Logos had sold me a tool to manage them in a better way.

Now I know I can keep Logos 3 running just to maintain my sermon file but, surely, Logos can develop a utility that will be able to continue working with their own format of files.

Luckily, I still have the Access database I built to keep track of my sermons, talks - where used, when, etc.  I've kept that going but hoping Logos 4 would be powerful enough to replace it.  From the feedback on this forum, it looks like Access is going to be the way to go if I don't want to go back and do a lot of reworking of files.  Software upgrades are supposed to add facilities, not take them away.

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MJ. Smith | Forum Activity | Replied: Wed, Aug 17 2011 8:52 PM

You know that your L3 sermon file will transfer into L4 as a resource/ Just checking.

Orthodox Bishop Hilarion Alfeyev: "To be a theologian means to have experience of a personal encounter with God through prayer and worship."

Posts 33
Stephen Coles | Forum Activity | Replied: Fri, Aug 19 2011 2:47 AM

Yes, my current file is indexed and added to Logos 4 but I'd like to be able to continue adding sermons to it without having to go back into Logos 3.  It would be like having to keep MS Office XP on my PC alongside MS Office 2010 in order to work on older documents.

And that's another issue - I have many of my sermons in Word on archive disks but, having tried the new book builder, it won't read them because they're .doc files (it only reads .docx).  So I can't even build a new file without a lot of document converting.

Sorry Logos, a very dissatisfied customer.  I used to regularly recommend Logos to colleagues but this latest version is, in my view, a step too far (not just this sermon file matter but numerous issues where it promises much but then delivers less).  I've more or less given up on the iOS version and use Laridian's tools; I'm tempted to ditch Logos 4 and stick with Logos 3 - it means writing off a fair bit of investment but I think my time is worth more.

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JT (alabama24) | Forum Activity | Replied: Fri, Aug 19 2011 5:29 AM

Stephen Coles:
And that's another issue - I have many of my sermons in Word on archive disks but, having tried the new book builder, it won't read them because they're .doc files (it only reads .docx).  So I can't even build a new file without a lot of document converting.

Stephen - 

.doc files are easy to convert to .docx in Word. Just open the document and do a "file:save as." Have you tried to do this and see what PBB does with the files?

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Posts 33
Stephen Coles | Forum Activity | Replied: Fri, Aug 19 2011 5:38 AM

I know how to convert but why can Logos not have built a program that could read .doc as well as .docx?  To me it's a sign of shoddy development - I feel like I've paid to be a beta tester.

At the moment, I'm not investing any more in Logos - I'll use Logos 3 and manage with it.

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TCBlack | Forum Activity | Replied: Fri, Aug 19 2011 5:50 AM

Stephen Coles:
why can Logos not have built a program that could read .doc as well as .docx? 

Doc uses a binary file format that must be opened and parsed using secret information that Microsoft doesn't release.  It is a closed file format.  Other companies can (and have) attempt to reverse engineer the format, but it's never quite perfect and your output data has some risk of not being precisely what you put in since you're trying to pull it out of a closed box.  

docx is an "open" XML format which basically means your text is wrapped in <tags /> which define what it should look like along with supporting descriptive documents which are all zipped together into a neat package with a *.docx extension.  You can test this by opening any docx file in a file compression program.  Plus the XML format is humanly readable and computer parseable.  A "simple" XSLT sheet can convert your docx file into almost any other format which you have the specs for - including PB.  

I may be an occasional opponent of the docx format's failings and inconsistencies but I'll readily concede it is vastly more user friendly than the (thankfully) deprecated doc format.

Hmm Sarcasm is my love language. Obviously I love you. 

Posts 3163
Dominick Sela | Forum Activity | Replied: Fri, Aug 19 2011 6:35 AM

If someone has tons of .DOC files to be converted, there are file converters on the internet, some free, some with nominal cost. Just Google "Word .DOC to .DOCX converter" or something similar and you'll see lots of them.

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TCBlack | Forum Activity | Replied: Fri, Aug 19 2011 6:39 AM

Dominick Sela:

If someone has tons of .DOC files to be converted, there are file converters on the internet, some free, some with nominal cost. Just Google "Word .DOC to .DOCX converter" or something similar and you'll see lots of them.

Interestingly enough I have a massive number of odt files I'm wanting to upconvert - but... why doesn't word have that feature?  Hmm...  Couldn't that be done with a macro?

Hmm Sarcasm is my love language. Obviously I love you. 

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JT (alabama24) | Forum Activity | Replied: Fri, Aug 19 2011 7:24 AM

Stephen Coles:

I know how to convert but why can Logos not have built a program that could read .doc as well as .docx?  To me it's a sign of shoddy development - I feel like I've paid to be a beta tester.

Stephen - 

I know that you are upset, and there is nothing I can do about that. However, to say that "it's a sign of shoddy development" is unfair. I am thrilled to have PBB. I own, but have never used the Sermon File Addin (I'm a Mac). Even if Logos intends to build a conversion tool, should I and others have to wait for them to develop that before I get to use PBB? Users have been clamoring for PBB, and generally people are happy. 

Software technology is in a rapidly changing environment. It is not unusual at all for software companies to release a new product that is not fully backward compatible. Generally they do this because they believe the new product is better overall. This is the case with Logos. Of course, there will still be some users whose needs were better met with the old product. I hope that Logos is able to accommodate the SFA users (sooner, rather than later), but please don't denigrate the developers. 

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Keep Smiling 4 Jesus :) | Forum Activity | Replied: Fri, Aug 19 2011 7:34 AM

Thomas Black:
Hmm...  Couldn't that be done with a macro?

Found a web page with Word macro tutorial for converting all doc files in one folder to docx

http://www.maxhire.net/robo/Projects/MaxHire%20Knowledge%20Base/Files_and_Documents/docx-doc.htm

Macro can be modified to include sub folders:

http://forums.techguy.org/business-applications/975642-word-macros-convert-files-docx.html

Keep Smiling Smile

Posts 908
Brother Mark | Forum Activity | Replied: Fri, Aug 19 2011 8:23 AM

alabama24:

Software technology is in a rapidly changing environment. It is not unusual at at for software companies to release a new product that is not fully backward compatible. Generally they do this because they believe the new product is better overall. This is the case with Logos. Of course, there will still be some users whose needs were better met with the old product. I hope that Logos is able to accommodate the SFA users (sooner, rather than later), but please don't denigrate the developers. 

Although by most standards I'm a relative newbie to Logos (2004'ish), I've run software development projects since the 80's (so much for trotting out the obligatory credentials).  Although it isn't an unusual practice to release a new product that isn't fully backward compatible, data should never be orphaned by a version upgrade (yeah, stated as a fact when its my own personal opinion. Apologies.)  There is an entire segment of the industry devoted to data conversion, but the real sweet spot for any software company is to give away the conversion tool (or build in an interface for) that brings legacy data into the new system.

Like you, I'm really happy with PBB, and L4 is without a doubt a quantum leap from L3 (wow, yet another opinion!).... however, lots of us also agree that converting old personal books and sermon files into the new format would be worth a lot.

 

"I read dead people..."

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TCBlack | Forum Activity | Replied: Fri, Aug 19 2011 8:47 AM

Keep Smiling 4 Jesus :):
Found a web page with Word macro tutorial for converting all doc files in one folder to docx

SWEEEEEET!  Yes

Hmm Sarcasm is my love language. Obviously I love you. 

Posts 611
Graham Owen | Forum Activity | Replied: Fri, Aug 19 2011 9:11 AM

Brother Mark:
Although it isn't an unusual practice to release a new product that isn't fully backward compatible, data should never be orphaned by a version upgrade (yeah, stated as a fact when its my own personal opinion. Apologies.)

I think that most of us with an IT background would agree that losing access to data when moving from one version of a program to the next is a practice that should be avoided.Personally I have managed to get from 3 to 4 with most of my data intact the notable issue being a few time lines. Whilst I had the sermon addin in Logos 3 I never really committed to it as my approach to sermon preparation means that I have material in Logos Notes, Mind Maps, Word, PowerPoint, Post Cards, Bible Margin, etc. Once things have settled down I will look at the new PBB and see if the benefits warrant a change to my eclectic approach to sermon preparation.

God Bless

Graham

Pastor - NTCOG Basingstoke

Posts 33
Stephen Coles | Forum Activity | Replied: Fri, Aug 19 2011 10:48 AM

And if there are macros or free apps to do the conversion, why could Logos not build them in?

Perhaps this is coming and the current PPB is to keep the hounds at bay but, if I remember correctly, the sermon addin was promised a year ago.  As I said in my last posting, I'm shelving Logos 4 for the moment and go back to using Logos 3.  I'll re-evaluate the position when I replace my PC (probably next year) and need to install software.

Thanks to all who have responded...

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