Free upgrade .... nothing to lose??????

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Posts 361
Stephen Miller | Forum Activity | Posted: Sun, Aug 21 2011 9:13 PM

Yesterday I saw that Logos was offering me a FREE upgrade from Platinum LE to Platinum KF. I asked in General posts what was involved ... thanks for the quick responses.

Some advised I had "nothing to lose".

Before I tell you what happend, I need to tell you that I do not use Logos 4 very often. I prefer Logos 3. The Logos 4 Indexer has always seemed unstable and I went through about a year just watching the Indexer doiing whatever indexers do, every time I opened Logos 4. A complete new installation seemed to overcome that problem. However, I still had to wait up to 5 minutes for the Indexer to check that it had nothing to do every time I started Logos 4.

 

So HERE'S WHAT HAPPENED WHEN I APPLIED THE FREE UPGRADE.

1. I had Logos 4.3 installed with everything up to do. No updates needed.

2. I ran the upgrade Platinum KF program as supplied.

3. It downgraded Logos 4.3 to 4.2.

4. It then told me that the library needed merging / indexing. This started automatically.

5. It then told me there was an upgrade available .... to Logos 4.3.

6. It then told me there were 1.15G of downloads available.

7. It then told me there was no Index library and that the indexing would have to start all over again.

8. After 6 hours the log files tell me that 125 of 323 files are indexed (the Bible Index I assume). The task bar tells me the Indexer has completed 2%.

This could take a while!! And who said I had nothing to lose?

This is why I don't use Logos 4.

Stephen Miller

Sydney, Australia

5.

Posts 5621
Todd Phillips | Forum Activity | Replied: Sun, Aug 21 2011 9:24 PM

Stephen Miller:
2. I ran the upgrade Platinum KF program as supplied.

There is a problem here.  You should not have to run anything to upgrade your license.  I'm not sure what you were told, but a restart of the Logos program is all that's needed to pick up the license changes and begin downloading then new files.  No install needed.  Secondly, there is a problem if v4.2 is still available on the website.  Logos needs to fix that.

Wiki Links: Enabling Logging / Detailed Search Help - MacBook Pro (2014), ThinkPad E570

Posts 361
Stephen Miller | Forum Activity | Replied: Sun, Aug 21 2011 10:03 PM

Todd,

When I paid $0 for the upgrade (I had to give my VISA card details etc) I had to say whether I favoured a DOWNLOAD or a DVD. When I chose DOWNLOAD I was told to download logos4setup.exe (I did not have to download this if I went for the DVD upgrade).

I will report back at week's end whether I am still a Logos 3 user or Logos 4.

Stephen

Posts 15805
Forum MVP
Keep Smiling 4 Jesus :) | Forum Activity | Replied: Sun, Aug 21 2011 10:18 PM

Stephen Miller:
I will report back at week's end whether I am still a Logos 3 user or Logos 4.

Also have option to download new resources in base package KF for use in Libronix 3.0g => http://wiki.logos.com/KF_Resources_for_Logos_3

Note: once Logos 4 indexing completes, searching is much faster than Libronix 3.  Thankful for Logos 4.3 features that include free Personal Book tool.

Keep Smiling Smile

Posts 9947
George Somsel | Forum Activity | Replied: Sun, Aug 21 2011 10:55 PM

Stephen Miller:

8. After 6 hours the log files tell me that 125 of 323 files are indexed (the Bible Index I assume). The task bar tells me the Indexer has completed 2%.

This could take a while!! And who said I had nothing to lose?

This is why I don't use Logos 4.

Stephen Miller

Something is obviously very dodgey. My indexing is done surprisingly fast.  What are the specs on your machine?

george
gfsomsel

יְמֵי־שְׁנוֹתֵינוּ בָהֶם שִׁבְעִים שָׁנָה וְאִם בִּגְבוּרֹת שְׁמוֹנִים שָׁנָה וְרָהְבָּם עָמָל וָאָוֶן

Posts 361
Stephen Miller | Forum Activity | Replied: Tue, Aug 23 2011 11:00 PM

Here is an update. I am having the same problems as before.

1. The Indexer took 11 hours to finish the Bible Index.

2. After 36 hours Indexing the rest of the library it gradually went up to 45%.

3. It has started Indexing from the start .... 0%.

 

Stephen Miller

Posts 9947
George Somsel | Forum Activity | Replied: Tue, Aug 23 2011 11:12 PM

Stephen Miller:

Here is an update. I am having the same problems as before.

1. The Indexer took 11 hours to finish the Bible Index.

2. After 36 hours Indexing the rest of the library it gradually went up to 45%.

3. It has started Indexing from the start .... 0%.

 

Stephen Miller

Again, I repeat "Something is obviously very dodgey. My indexing is done surprisingly fast. What are the specs on your machine?"

george
gfsomsel

יְמֵי־שְׁנוֹתֵינוּ בָהֶם שִׁבְעִים שָׁנָה וְאִם בִּגְבוּרֹת שְׁמוֹנִים שָׁנָה וְרָהְבָּם עָמָל וָאָוֶן

Posts 361
Stephen Miller | Forum Activity | Replied: Wed, Aug 24 2011 12:33 AM

George,

FYI Intel celeron 2.8G, 1G memory, Win7 Home

 

Stephen

 

 

Posts 26813
Forum MVP
Dave Hooton | Forum Activity | Replied: Wed, Aug 24 2011 12:49 AM

Stephen,

I'm sorry that you are once more reporting indexing problems and something was amiss if you were "downgraded" to 4.2. We need to see some logs to further assist you - read http://wiki.logos.com/Diagnostic_Logging

Stephen Miller:
FYI Intel celeron 2.8G, 1G memory, Win7 Home

The Celeron processor is the reason things are happening slowly and  you really need at least 2 GB memory.

Dave
===

Windows 10 & Android 8

Posts 361
Stephen Miller | Forum Activity | Replied: Wed, Aug 24 2011 1:55 AM

Less haste, more speed.

I used Glary Utilties to see what was on the motherboard.

It gave the wrong memory .... I have 2G.

Can't do much about the CPU at the moment.

Stephen

Posts 3163
Dominick Sela | Forum Activity | Replied: Wed, Aug 24 2011 3:31 AM

Stephen, the Celeron processor is meant for basic computing tasks -according to Intel's site, like email, Internet browsing, and creating documents.  I am afraid you are going to see problematic performance with a high-powered application like Logos, it's just not capable of that. The Celeron processor technology is also 13 years old, an eternity in the computer business. The reality is that software applications are built to take advantage of the computing power available from more recent computers. If Logos was built to run well on a 13 year old technology, their competitors would have much more highly functional software that a large percentage of the market would prefer since their computers would be more capable than the Celeron.

Note especially the bolded parts:

Celeron is a brand name given by Intel Corp. to a number of different x86 computer microprocessor models targeted at budget personal computers.

Celeron processors can run all IA-32 computer programs, but their performance is often significantly lower when compared to similar CPUs with higher-priced Intel CPU brands. For example, the Celeron brand will often have less cache memory, or have advanced features purposely disabled. These missing features can have a variable impact on performance, but is often very substantial. While a few of the Celeron designs have achieved surprising performance, most of the Celeron line has exhibited noticeably degraded performance. This has been the primary justification for the higher cost of other Intel CPU brands versus the Celeron range.

Introduced in April 1998, the first Celeron branded CPU was based on the Pentium II branded core.

Posts 291
Bob Schlessman | Forum Activity | Replied: Wed, Aug 24 2011 6:50 AM

Dominick Sela:

Celeron is a brand name given by Intel Corp. to a number of different x86 computer microprocessor models targeted at budget personal computers.

Celeron processors can run all IA-32 computer programs, but their performance is often significantly lower when compared to similar CPUs with higher-priced Intel CPU brands. For example, the Celeron brand will often have less cache memory, or have advanced features purposely disabled. These missing features can have a variable impact on performance, but is often very substantial. While a few of the Celeron designs have achieved surprising performance, most of the Celeron line has exhibited noticeably degraded performance. This has been the primary justification for the higher cost of other Intel CPU brands versus the Celeron range.

Good info Dominick. For these very reasons I have never built a Celeron based system. In budget builds the equivalently priced AMD CPUs have always been much faster than any Celeron. Any friends and acquaintances who have bought Celeron based systems have always had complaints about performance.

But as Stephen pointed out, in this case he doesn't have much choice unless his system is upgradeable and he wants to shell out the bucks.

Posts 903
Brother Mark | Forum Activity | Replied: Wed, Aug 24 2011 7:17 AM

Stephen,  Although no one has suggested it yet, its entirely possible that removing logos and reinstalling it from scratch.  I'm the impatient sort and have done this on two occasions in the past when tech support was slammed and anticipated a delayed response.  Yes, yes, with your library, it is going to take a very long time if you have to download everything all over again, but there are alternatives to that on the wiki.

In any case, the celeron will definitely affect your indexing, but I really really doubt the results you're seeing are solely caused by the crippled CPU.

 

"I read dead people..."

Posts 24
Marcus Baird | Forum Activity | Replied: Wed, Aug 24 2011 7:21 AM

I'm surprised that the Celeron doesn't have problems running Windows 7!

Posts 3163
Dominick Sela | Forum Activity | Replied: Wed, Aug 24 2011 7:29 AM

Marcus Baird:

I'm surprised that the Celeron doesn't have problems running Windows 7!

 

In some benchmarks Windows 7 runs better than XP, albeit with much richer functionality.  Vista was a bloaty hog, Windows 7 is much leaner; they did an excellent job with it as time has proven.

Posts 9947
George Somsel | Forum Activity | Replied: Wed, Aug 24 2011 7:31 AM

Bob Schlessman:
But as Stephen pointed out, in this case he doesn't have much choice unless his system is upgradeable and he wants to shell out the bucks.

There is always a choice.  In Stephen's case, I wouldn't recommend attempting to upgrade his machine which would require a new motherboard.  That is beyond the capabilities (or the desire to expend the effort necessary) of most users.  I would recommend that he rather consider buying a new computer.  I was in a situation somewhat similar to Stephen's when L4 first came out (even during beta testing) with an AMD based computer and only 750 M of memory.  Considering the fact that the Celeron has been in production for some time and that the capabilities inherent in the CPUs bearing that name have changed, he may not be in quite so bad shape as some consider (not good in any event).  He most likely doesn't have one of the earlier versions or he probably would not have (he now states) 2 G of memory.  When I was still using the old AMD computer, the indexing did take forever.  There is a factor which has probably changed that somewhat, namely, they have changed the indexing procedure.  Even so, his indexing woes remind me of the bad old days of L4.  I wonder how large his hard drive might be and how much free space remains.  If there is little or insufficient space to perform the necessary shuffling in indexing, it would severely impact it.  He might be able to solve some of his problem by installing a new, larger HD if such is the case.  The fact that large HDs have become quite reasonably priced might make this feasible.

george
gfsomsel

יְמֵי־שְׁנוֹתֵינוּ בָהֶם שִׁבְעִים שָׁנָה וְאִם בִּגְבוּרֹת שְׁמוֹנִים שָׁנָה וְרָהְבָּם עָמָל וָאָוֶן

Posts 291
Bob Schlessman | Forum Activity | Replied: Wed, Aug 24 2011 8:53 AM

George Somsel:
There is always a choice. 

I think that is what I said but in different words. Smile

George Somsel:
In Stephen's case, I wouldn't recommend attempting to upgrade his machine which would require a new motherboard.

Not necessarily. Depends on which version Celeron he has in his system, therefore which socket / chipset his motherboards has. For example, the Socket 775 motherboard on my desktop will support from 4th generation Celeron all of the way up to Core2 Quad CPUs (which is what I run now - Q8400). But there are even Socket 1156 and 1366 Celeron based CPUs. When I upgraded from an E7200 Core2 Duo CPU to a Q8400 Core2 Quad the performance boost was quite significant. It was simply a CPU swap and the investment was $100. It has turned out to be money well spent.

George Somsel:
When I was still using the old AMD computer, the indexing did take forever. 
.

That said, it isn't for certain that his motherboard will allow an upgrade but a little research should tell him if it will. Of course if it is a newer laptop he may be out of luck.

George Somsel:
When I was still using the old AMD computer, the indexing did take forever. 

Makes sense but most AMD CPUs will still outperform an equvalently priced Celeron of the comparable generation.

George Somsel:
He might be able to solve some of his problem by installing a new, larger HD if such is the case.  The fact that large HDs have become quite reasonably priced might make this feasible.

That would help if the hard drive is crowded as you suggest. But if it has plenty of space he would still benefit the most from a CPU upgrade if it is doable.

Blessings,

Bob

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