Just to let folks know, Logos is offering another version of the Talmud in community pricing http://www.logos.com/product/10356/the-babylonian-talmud-original-text-edited-corrected-formulated-and-translated-into-english
Just to let folks know, Logos is offering another version of the Talmud in community pricing
I need help from somebody! George!? If this keeps up, I will not just be Swimming in the Sea of Talmud, I will be drowning in it!If one has the Babylonian and Jerusalem Talmud Collection (50 vols.) by Jacob Neusner does he need this one? Tell me yes! [:D]
I'm in.
Just to let folks know, Logos is offering another version of the Talmud in community pricing I need help from somebody! George!? If this keeps up, I will not just be Swimming in the Sea of Talmud, I will be drowning in it!If one has the Babylonian and Jerusalem Talmud Collection (50 vols.) by Jacob Neusner does he need this one? Tell me yes!
I need help from somebody! George!? If this keeps up, I will not just be Swimming in the Sea of Talmud, I will be drowning in it!If one has the Babylonian and Jerusalem Talmud Collection (50 vols.) by Jacob Neusner does he need this one? Tell me yes!
If a doctor recommended removing your head, would you seek a second opinion? [:D] Here's the second opinion.
BTW: Note that this is only the Babylonian Talmud -- and not even all of it at that.
If a doctor recommended removing your head, would you seek a second opinion? Here's the second opinion.
I'd get a third & fourth opinion. So Logos, how about a couple more Talmuds?? Even a Reverse-Interlinear would be nice.
Then we can have a Talmud-wrestling match. [:O]
Looking at the tractate intros, I signed up.
I also notice Perseus now has an end of the month ship date. Timing's great, with the Civil War heating up.
I'm in!
So Logos, how about a couple more Talmuds?? Even a Reverse-Interlinear would be nice.
I wouldn't favor a reverse interlinear, but I would tolerate a regular interlinear if it would get us the original text (I could hide the other lines). This doesn't indicate any softening on my part toward interlinears but only a desire to have the original text (in its proper order).
How is this different from the Talmud that is already available in Logos?
Couldn't resist it. I'm in.
The Talmud already available in Logos includes the Babylonian & Jerusalem Talmud. Whilst the community pricing Talmud is just the Babylonian Talmud, though incomplete & it is a different translation of the same material.
George, your secret is safe with me on the Interlinear front [;)][:P]
I'm definitely in.
It's really good to see more Jewish/Hebraic resources for Logos. This is the primary reason I use Logos. It's really nice to start getting more options.
Some apparent concerns about deliberate omissions and censorship by Rodkinson in his Talmud translation:
http://www.come-and-hear.com/editor/censorship_1.html
Eric, sorry to embarrass you, but you should probably have scrutinized that page a bit better before you linked to it. I got suspicious and started to check it out. Not only is the author a major conspiracy theorist who runs a "Waco Holocaust Electronic Museum" and is convinced the 9/11 planes were, in fact, remotely controlled by NORAD in conspiracy with Israel, the whole site is a disguised hate-campaign against Jews, Judaism and everything Jewish.
She pretends to promote "tolerance" and "understanding", and she pretends her campaign to get Christians to read the Talmud is to increase such "understanding", but if you look a bit closer, it's all about promoting a completely different kind of "understanding". She wants Christians to "understand" what Judaism is "truly" about: world dominion and murdering Christians (besides a number of other nasty things). She links to quote after quote which is supposed to prove that Judaism teaches that every Christian must be killed. And she's convinced American Jews are on a mission to make the US a land governed by talmudic law. New website, old story, in other words...
Furthermore, according to others, those long alleged Soncino quotes are a) not taken directly from the Soncino Talmud, but from another deeply anti-Semitic book, b) used without permission (by both authors), and c) not necessarily trustworthy.
So while it is, of course, entirely possible that this Rodkinson did leave out distasteful or anti-Christian passages (it's not like there aren't any, and it's not like Jews haven't done it before, to at least lessen the risk for persecution and book burnings), I for one would want a more reliable source before I believe it.
It's too late for you to edit the post, but if I were you I'd ask Logos to remove the link. I don't want anti-Semitism promoted on these pages any more than I want anti-Catholicism to be.
And as for the rest of you: if you haven't clicked on the link before, please don't do so now out of curiosity. Don't give her the satisfaction of many new visitors, and don't give me the grief of having caused it.
Eric, sorry to embarrass you, but you should probably have scrutinized that page a bit better before you linked to it.
I found Eric's post to be informative and relevant. Eric did not say he espoused the same views. Scholars would do well to be aware of divergent statements no matter how ridiculous or inflammatory they are.
The contents of that website are no more objectionable than:
Some of the accusations above have a great measure of truth behind them, while others are preposterous, to say the least. Without have open access to read,and judge for ourselves, some of the truths will never be known and some of the lies will be believed because they are suppressed.
Unfortunately I found one quote on the linked website that I agree with:"Censorship damages inter-religious and inter-cultural understanding — no matter who does it."
Eric, sorry to embarrass you, but you should probably have scrutinized that page a bit better before you linked to it. I got suspicious and started to check it out. Not only is the author a major conspiracy theorist who runs a "Waco Holocaust Electronic Museum" and is convinced the 9/11 planes were, in fact, remotely controlled by NORAD in conspiracy with Israel, the whole site is a disguised hate-campaign against Jews, Judaism and everything Jewish. She pretends to promote "tolerance" and "understanding", and she pretends her campaign to get Christians to read the Talmud is to increase such "understanding", but if you look a bit closer, it's all about promoting a completely different kind of "understanding". She wants Christians to "understand" what Judaism is "truly" about: world dominion and murdering Christians (besides a number of other nasty things). She links to quote after quote which is supposed to prove that Judaism teaches that every Christian must be killed. And she's convinced American Jews are on a mission to make the US a land governed by talmudic law. New website, old story, in other words... Furthermore, according to others, those long alleged Soncino quotes are a) not taken directly from the Soncino Talmud, but from another deeply anti-Semitic book, b) used without permission (by both authors), and c) not necessarily trustworthy. So while it is, of course, entirely possible that this Rodkinson did leave out distasteful or anti-Christian passages (it's not like there aren't any, and it's not like Jews haven't done it before, to at least lessen the risk for persecution and book burnings), I for one would want a more reliable source before I believe it. It's too late for you to edit the post, but if I were you I'd ask Logos to remove the link. I don't want anti-Semitism promoted on these pages any more than I want anti-Catholicism to be. And as for the rest of you: if you haven't clicked on the link before, please don't do so now out of curiosity. Don't give her the satisfaction of many new visitors, and don't give me the grief of having caused it.
Oh, I saw the tone of the Webpage and felt that the author might be a bit "out there," but I first checked her comments against the online version of Rodkinson's Talmud and compared some sections of his Talmud with Neusner's that I have in Logos, and felt that the comments the author was making about Rodkinson's Talmud were confirmed both by Rodkinson himself in his notes and by Neusner's edition of the Babylonian Talmud, which is why I posted a link to it even though it might be a biased source.
So I wouldn't tell people to ignore the link. There are some truthful criticisms of Rodkinson there.
FWIW, I'm Jewish. If the author is anti-Semitic, I didn't find her Rodkinson Talmud criticisms to be invalid with respect to the parts I checked.
More serious, though, is that I don't think Rodkinson uses standard Talmud referencing, so it may not link to Logos resources that cite Talmud tracts by their full nomenclature except to bring up entire chapters and not the specific citations.
Reminds me of the old joke:
A man goes to a psychiatrist. The psychiatrist tells him: You're crazy!
Patient: I want a second opinion.
Psychiatrist: OK, you're ugly too.
If a doctor recommended removing your head, would you seek a second opinion? Here's the second opinion. Reminds me of the old joke: A man goes to a psychiatrist. The psychiatrist tells him: You're crazy! Patient: I want a second opinion. Psychiatrist: OK, you're ugly too.
Which reminds me of a Winston Churchill story:
Bessie Braddock (to a drunken Churchill): “Sir, you are drunk.”
Churchill: “Madam, you are ugly. In the morning, I shall be sober.”
[:P]
I just noticed that this is already approaching the 100% line!
So, let me be sure I understand this: If I have the previous Logos offerings of the Talmud (which include both the Babylonian and Jerusalem Talmuds), this one would not be needed?
Also, it was mentioned that it was a different translation of the same material. How much of a difference is it?
Basically I have the previous offereings, and really don't have $50 to just spend on something that I already have, unless it is so different. So, if anyone can, please explain the necessity of this one.
Thanks!
It's probably not absolutely necessary, but I'll bet you have more than one bible.
So, let me be sure I understand this: If I have the previous Logos offerings of the Talmud (which include both the Babylonian and Jerusalem Talmuds), this one would not be needed? Also, it was mentioned that it was a different translation of the same material. How much of a difference is it? Basically I have the previous offereings, and really don't have $50 to just spend on something that I already have, unless it is so different. So, if anyone can, please explain the necessity of this one. Thanks!
Rodkinson's Talmud is readable online:
http://www.sacred-texts.com/jud/talmud.htm
The volume numbering and total number of volumes is different from the Logos edition, but the order of tractates is the same and they both have the same total content.
Pick some tractates in Rodkinson and compare them side-by-side with Neusner and you'll have your answer re: whether you want both translations or not. That's what I did, and figured that Neusner was enough for me, as I'm not a Talmud scholar. Also, one day maybe Logos will have Steinsaltz's Talmud and/or the Soncino Talmud, both of which are probably better and more complete than Rodkinson.
YMMV
but the order of tractates is the same and they both have the same total content.
The order is quite different, and they do not have the same total content. If you just count the tractates, Neusner's edition has 37 while Rodkinson has 25.
But there are some more surprises:
Rodkinson includes Shekalim and Edduyot in his 25, which aren't found in the Babylonian Talmud at all - he's just using the Mishnah text and adding notes for those two tractates.
But Rodkinson does have material not found in Neusner's edition. In particular, he includes four of the so-called 'Minor Tractates' that aren't part of many editions of the Babylonian Talmud (including Neusner's edition):
Derekh Eretz Rabbbah
Evel Rabbati (also called Semahoth)
Derekh Eretz Zuta
Aboth of Rabbi Nathan
So you do get some material in the Rodkinson edition that isn't in Neusner's (four minor tractates and information on two tractates not found in Bavli), but if all you had was Rodkinson, you'd be missing 18 tractates of the Babylonian Talmud proper.
In addition, the translation as a whole is entirely prose, so it reads very differently from Neusner's highly structured sense-units.
I do not have the means to get the Neusner edition, so for anyone like me living in the poor hut, this may be a great deal. Let's have more people sign up.
Those Logos people are obviously working all night long. This resource 'went over the top' at 11:39pm.
And with the added information from our Logos expert, the price will hopefully float down a bit.
With one week left before it closes, it is very possible this can drop to $30.
Peace, Matthew!
*smile*
You wrote: "With one week left before it closes, it is very possible this can drop to $30."
I think maybe even to $25.00 (American Dollars)!
Perhaps, but I think $30 is more likely. Cyril of Alexandria is on the cusp of meeting production costs. http://www.logos.com/product/9623/works-of-st-cyril-of-alexandria
After reading 'the Jesus Wars', Cyril is no longer welcome here in Red Rock country. In fact, anything from Alexandria should be closely examined.
What an interesting story. At first, I thought they were surely exaggerating. Time apparently didn't favor Cyril.
If you're not familiar with this volume, it concentrates on the late-300s and 400s and the arguments over Jesus' nature in the councils.
After reading 'the Jesus Wars', Cyril is no longer welcome here in Red Rock country. In fact, anything from Alexandria should be closely examined. What an interesting story. At first, I thought they were surely exaggerating. Time apparently didn't favor Cyril. If you're not familiar with this volume, it concentrates on the late-300s and 400s and the arguments over Jesus' nature in the councils.
I don't understand your animosity. I've even ordered the Arminius collection (now I need to sterilize my keyboard).
After reading 'the Jesus Wars', Cyril is no longer welcome here in Red Rock country.
Goody - I get to protect Nestorians. If only I could get the Chinese in the (English) translations of Nestorian sutras to show correctly in my PB's.[:D]
PS. I enjoyed Jenkin's The History of Lost Christianity and recommend it. However, I find him writing for popular consumption at the cost of accuracy - or perhaps more accurately, when he gives the broad overview he levels out the details.
The order is quite different, and they do not have the same total content. If you just count the tractates, Neusner's edition has 37 while Rodkinson has 25. But there are some more surprises: Rodkinson includes Shekalim and Edduyot in his 25, which aren't found in the Babylonian Talmud at all - he's just using the Mishnah text and adding notes for those two tractates. But Rodkinson does have material not found in Neusner's edition. In particular, he includes four of the so-called 'Minor Tractates' that aren't part of many editions of the Babylonian Talmud (including Neusner's edition): Derekh Eretz Rabbbah Evel Rabbati (also called Semahoth) Derekh Eretz Zuta Aboth of Rabbi Nathan So you do get some material in the Rodkinson edition that isn't in Neusner's (four minor tractates and information on two tractates not found in Bavli), but if all you had was Rodkinson, you'd be missing 18 tractates of the Babylonian Talmud proper. In addition, the translation as a whole is entirely prose, so it reads very differently from Neusner's highly structured sense-units.
Thanks, Vincent. This was the information that I needed. I'm in!
MJ ... you're right on Jenkins. But surprisingly some of my friends who are put to sleep with today's sermons are just fascinated with the drive that surrounded Christianity long ago. So, maybe it's a seed.
are just fascinated with the drive that surrounded Christianity long ago. So, maybe it's a seed.
Now just $20!!! [:O]
[:-*] Get your bid in before 12 noon PST or you'll miss out.
We can push it down to $15! All together now! [:P]
I still think it is funny!
