Aramaic Bible Series - Liturgical Press - Collegeville MN

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Posts 10765
Denise | Forum Activity | Posted: Sat, Sep 3 2011 7:15 AM

Does anyone have an opinion on this series or experience with it?

I don't see it available for any of the software publishers. Here's a listing from ChristianBook:

http://www.christianbook.com/Christian/Books/easy_find/1253761229?action=Search&Ntk=multiple.series&Nso=1&Ns=product.published_date&Ntt=Aramaic%20Bible

The whole area of 'Aramaic Bibles' is a tremendous morass of opinions and unsupported statements. Trying to find something that is reasonably dependable (translation/notes) is slow-going.

I notice the authors of this series are generally well-regarded, and also show up in the current Logos pre-pub: http://www.logos.com/product/10397/eerdmans-old-testament-history-collection

Any knowledge would be appreciated, before I plunk down about $500.

"I didn't know God made honky tonk angels."

Posts 9947
George Somsel | Forum Activity | Replied: Sat, Sep 3 2011 7:38 AM

Denise Barnhart:

Does anyone have an opinion on this series or experience with it?

I don't see it available for any of the software publishers. Here's a listing from ChristianBook:

http://www.christianbook.com/Christian/Books/easy_find/1253761229?action=Search&Ntk=multiple.series&Nso=1&Ns=product.published_date&Ntt=Aramaic%20Bible

The whole area of 'Aramaic Bibles' is a tremendous morass of opinions and unsupported statements. Trying to find something that is reasonably dependable (translation/notes) is slow-going.

I notice the authors of this series are generally well-regarded, and also show up in the current Logos pre-pub: http://www.logos.com/product/10397/eerdmans-old-testament-history-collection

Any knowledge would be appreciated, before I plunk down about $500.

I'm trying to figure out what it is that your question is about.  From your link it appears that you are talking about the targumim, but they don't cost $500.00.  Besides which, they couldn't be considered to be a "morass of opinions …" since they're original texts.  I did run across a tremendous deal in the process.

http://www.logos.com/product/4654/hebrew-bible-bundle

Unfortunately (or perhaps fortunately), I have everything in the collection.  If you have an interest in OT and don't have this, get it.

george
gfsomsel

יְמֵי־שְׁנוֹתֵינוּ בָהֶם שִׁבְעִים שָׁנָה וְאִם בִּגְבוּרֹת שְׁמוֹנִים שָׁנָה וְרָהְבָּם עָמָל וָאָוֶן

Posts 10765
Denise | Forum Activity | Replied: Sat, Sep 3 2011 7:53 AM

George ... are we on the same page? (I may be mistaken.) I'm talking about english translations of the targumim; not the CAL etc. which of course I have.

Accordance has what appears to be their own in-house translation, but I'm primarily interested in detailed translation notes which I think the Aramaic Bible series has (but I'm not sure since I can't see any page examples).

My reference to the 'morass' is the frequent application on the internet claiming  'aramaic' for the syriac peshitta, effectively clouding the distinctions.

 

"I didn't know God made honky tonk angels."

Posts 9947
George Somsel | Forum Activity | Replied: Sat, Sep 3 2011 8:42 AM

Denise Barnhart:

George ... are we on the same page? (I may be mistaken.) I'm talking about english translations of the targumim; not the CAL etc. which of course I have.

Accordance has what appears to be their own in-house translation, but I'm primarily interested in detailed translation notes which I think the Aramaic Bible series has (but I'm not sure since I can't see any page examples).

My reference to the 'morass' is the frequent application on the internet claiming  'aramaic' for the syriac peshitta, effectively clouding the distinctions.

 

Does Logos have English translations of the targumim?  I wasn't aware of that (at least I don't think I was -- perhaps very early onset Alzheimer's).  Syriac is actually Aramaic -- a modern version.  It's much like modern English compared to Chaucer.  Of course, the script is different, but Hebrew changed from the paleo-Hebrew to the Aramaic square script so the change of script doesn't change the language.  Time and usage, however, have changed from older Aramaic to Syriac. 

george
gfsomsel

יְמֵי־שְׁנוֹתֵינוּ בָהֶם שִׁבְעִים שָׁנָה וְאִם בִּגְבוּרֹת שְׁמוֹנִים שָׁנָה וְרָהְבָּם עָמָל וָאָוֶן

Posts 28707
Forum MVP
MJ. Smith | Forum Activity | Replied: Sat, Sep 3 2011 1:16 PM

I've looked through a couple of volumes and seriously considered getting it on a subscription bases - but I couldn't justify the cost. It is a very reputable series by a very reputable company. I, too, was puzzled by your comment on morass and nearly bypassed the thread thinking you were talking Peshitta not Targumim.

Orthodox Bishop Hilarion Alfeyev: "To be a theologian means to have experience of a personal encounter with God through prayer and worship."

Posts 10765
Denise | Forum Activity | Replied: Sat, Sep 3 2011 2:00 PM

Thank you, MJ and George (sorry for the confusion).  LitPress.org had Pseudo-Jonathan/Genesis and two Ruth's both at 75% off for whatever reason. But ordered to see what they look like.

"I didn't know God made honky tonk angels."

Posts 9947
George Somsel | Forum Activity | Replied: Sat, Sep 3 2011 3:44 PM

The Liturgical Press has 2 of the targumim on sale for $16.25.  You might want to check it out.

http://www.litpress.org/Search.aspx?q=targums

george
gfsomsel

יְמֵי־שְׁנוֹתֵינוּ בָהֶם שִׁבְעִים שָׁנָה וְאִם בִּגְבוּרֹת שְׁמוֹנִים שָׁנָה וְרָהְבָּם עָמָל וָאָוֶן

Posts 2212
Damian McGrath | Forum Activity | Replied: Sun, Sep 4 2011 10:31 PM

Denise,

I have a couple of volumes (though, currently, I can only seem to lay my hands on Targum Pseudo-Jonathon:Genesis). 

It's a while since I referenced them (around 5 years ago) but I remember their utility for translation and interpretation. 

I could scan in a page or so if that would be helpful.

 

Posts 10765
Denise | Forum Activity | Replied: Mon, Sep 5 2011 8:00 AM

Thank you, Damian ... I went ahead and ordered the two on sale to see what they look like, so a scan won't be needed. But I appreciate your offer.

"I didn't know God made honky tonk angels."

Posts 8893
fgh | Forum Activity | Replied: Sun, Mar 31 2013 6:44 PM

For those of you who haven't yet found out, there is now a Jewish suggestion at Logos' new Uservoice site for prepubs: Add more Jewish works. Please go add your votes. And then add the remainder of your votes to other suggestions -- preferably mine.Big Smile

(There is also a new Uservoice site for CP's, with another ten new votes for you to spend: http://communitypricing.uservoice.com/forums/183260-general/filters/top. That too has a Jewish suggestion: Add more Jewish works to CP.)       

"The Christian way of life isn't so much an assignment to be performed, as a gift to be received."  Wilfrid Stinissen

Mac Pro OS 10.9.

Posts 98
LogosEmployee
Doug Mangum | Forum Activity | Replied: Mon, Apr 1 2013 10:02 AM

This series is the academic standard for English translations of the Targumim. All the contributors are top Targum experts like Martin McNamara and Philip Alexander. They also have extensive notes/commentary on the text and volume introductions that are quite helpful. I've used a number of volumes in the series. There's really nothing else like it out there in terms of the level of scholarship on the Targumim.

We don't have this series in Logos yet but last I heard we were talking to Liturgical about the possibility of getting it. I don't know anything more definite though.

EDIT: I see now this is a resurrected very old thread, but I suppose users might be interested to know it's on our radar for things we'd like to get in our format.

Posts 10765
Denise | Forum Activity | Replied: Mon, Apr 1 2013 11:27 AM

Thanks, Doug!  It's always hard to determine what's the academic standard, versus what is a group over on the side (McNamara gets pot-shotted quite a bit).

Following the thread entries above, I ended up getting maybe 15 of the volumes. Two are absolutely critical: Isaiah and Psalms.

I think of all my physical books and Logos books, two are my favorites. LitPress's Aramaic Bible, and my recent PB on Dorothy Day.  I can sit hours just reading these.  Sounds crazy, but both reflect a 'flailing' concerning the message God gives and applied in an everyday world of everyday people.

"I didn't know God made honky tonk angels."

Posts 452
Is Mebin | Forum Activity | Replied: Mon, Apr 1 2013 1:11 PM

I would buy this instantly!!!

Posts 8893
fgh | Forum Activity | Replied: Mon, Apr 1 2013 5:26 PM

Thanks, Doug. We always appreciate updates from Logos, regardless of how old the threads are. I hope you and Is both voted for my suggestion above.Big Smile

Denise, if you finished that Dorothy Day PB, can you share it in the Files forum? (When did you decide to become Denise again?)

"The Christian way of life isn't so much an assignment to be performed, as a gift to be received."  Wilfrid Stinissen

Mac Pro OS 10.9.

Posts 10765
Denise | Forum Activity | Replied: Mon, Apr 1 2013 7:28 PM

Would love to share Dorothy Day but she exceeded the upload limit. The question's been posed exactly 'what' is the upload limit from 2009 but no one seems to know. So that's where she stands.  I still owe Tom a copy.

I have this really good quote. She's holed up in the rural mountains , full of poverty during the depression, and it's freezing cold. Her daughter is due, and she writes page after page about women's lives. Then out of the blue:

'"When I consider how we Christians exhibit our Christianity --making it appear that there's not a ha'porth of difference between Christians and anyone else--neither in our daily life and behaviour nor in our political and economic theory--when I consider this, I say, I don't see how we can expect to convert the world. Perhaps we don't expect to; we are quite comfortable with our manners and customs....'

"I didn't know God made honky tonk angels."

Posts 8893
fgh | Forum Activity | Replied: Mon, Apr 1 2013 7:37 PM

Denise:
Would love to share Dorothy Day but she exceeded the upload limit.

Sad

I presume you've tried zipping? What about Google docs?

"The Christian way of life isn't so much an assignment to be performed, as a gift to be received."  Wilfrid Stinissen

Mac Pro OS 10.9.

Posts 10765
Denise | Forum Activity | Replied: Mon, Apr 1 2013 8:14 PM

Oddly the zip (MS Explorer) is larger than the docx/cover or very nearly the same. I zipped anyway for convenience.

"I didn't know God made honky tonk angels."

Posts 4889
David Paul | Forum Activity | Replied: Mon, Apr 1 2013 9:16 PM

I'm interested...but in all honesty, I will die never having read a targum if these guys can't get real and reassess their pricing structure. These insular university types price this stuff as if they have only one audience--a narrow and small audience who are obliged to cough up the absurd asking prices for this stuff (usually at university expense) because the only ones they expect who will buy it are the other two dozen specialists like them scattered around the world and a few hundred seminaries. Of such short-sighted miscalculation is self-fulfilling prophecy made.

SLASH the prices...and I do mean slash...and they will be able to triple or quadruple their sales in a heart beat. Cling to "how it's always been done" and they can enjoy their status quo.and relative obscurity forever.

Posts 8893
fgh | Forum Activity | Replied: Mon, Apr 1 2013 9:42 PM

David Paul:
SLASH the prices...and I do mean slash..

Actually, that's exactly what Liturgical Press does with that series. The regular prices are horrible, but there's usually one or two volumes on sale, and those sale prices really are slashed. This slashed:

I'm hoping Logos will negotiate a contract where all volumes have prices that slashed.

"The Christian way of life isn't so much an assignment to be performed, as a gift to be received."  Wilfrid Stinissen

Mac Pro OS 10.9.

Posts 4889
David Paul | Forum Activity | Replied: Mon, Apr 1 2013 9:44 PM

That is quite encouraging. Thanks for your reply.

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