Nested Collections

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Posts 386
Clinton Thomas | Forum Activity | Posted: Thu, Nov 5 2009 8:15 PM

I've been playing with this software for 2 months and I've just discovered nested collections.

For nested collections, as far as I can tell, you add an existing collection to the plus or minus section by clicking on the Open chevron and then drag the collection you want to nest to either of the areas.

Is this the only way  or the correct way? Or is there a way to list your collections in the library window and drag them from there?

If this is the only way, is it in the help documentation? If not it should be added. I could not find it.

There is so much functionality that I have not seen or just brushed the surface of.

Regards,

Clinton

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J.R. Miller | Forum Activity | Replied: Thu, Nov 5 2009 8:25 PM

wow, that could be really cool!  

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Mark Smith | Forum Activity | Replied: Thu, Nov 5 2009 10:37 PM

Clinton Thomas:
I've just discovered nested collections.

I think of nested collections as a collection under which I can open other collections. What you have discovered is more of a way to combine collections than to nest them They form one new larger collection but the smaller collections they were once part of are lost within the larger collection. Of course the original collections also remain.

In a nested collection, for example, I'd expect the software to be able to allow me to use the whole collection or any one of the smaller collections that make it up. I don't think this happens. I tried to do this in a search and by using the collection part of a custom Passage Guide. All I could access was the large collection, not its parts.

What you've found is interesting however.

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J.R. Miller | Forum Activity | Replied: Thu, Nov 5 2009 11:03 PM

If you add this "nested" collection to a larger collection and then make changes to the nested collection, do these changes propagate to the larger collection.

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Mark Smith | Forum Activity | Replied: Thu, Nov 5 2009 11:13 PM

Joe Miller:
If you add this "nested" collection to a larger collection and then make changes to the nested collection, do these changes propagate to the larger collection.

Yes they do. The larger collection is dynamically controlled by the smaller collections that make it up.

My trial collection is a logical one: a collection called NICOT and one called NICNT both added to a new collection called NIC. I can't see much use for this 'feature' right now but perhaps we'll find one.

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J.R. Miller | Forum Activity | Replied: Thu, Nov 5 2009 11:21 PM

Okay, then I would consider that a "nested" collection since there is a dynamic update after they are inserted.  It may not be technically right to call it that, but it makes sense with what I know of programming. Thanks for that tip though.  That is awesome!

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Todd Phillips | Forum Activity | Replied: Thu, Nov 5 2009 11:35 PM

Mark A. Smith:
My trial collection is a logical one: a collection called NICOT and one called NICNT both added to a new collection called NIC. I can't see much use for this 'feature' right now but perhaps we'll find one.

I've created a collection named Theology.  In it are three collections: Theology-Systematic, Theology-Historical, Theology-Biblical.

Theology-Historical and Theology-Biblical are created from books I've tagged with appropriate tags.

Theology-Systematic contains books tagged with four different tags: reformed theology, reformed baptist theology, dispensational theology, and arminian theology.

It works for me and was the collection hierarchy I was wanting in the v3 days. I can easily refine my searches this way.

I'll probably add another collection to Theology when I get a chance: Theology-Topics, that has books more focused on one or a few topics.

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J.R. Miller | Forum Activity | Replied: Thu, Nov 5 2009 11:48 PM

Good ideas in there Todd!  Thanks for sharing that info.  L4 is so cool!!!!

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Clinton Thomas | Forum Activity | Replied: Fri, Nov 6 2009 8:28 AM

Mark A. Smith:
Yes they do.

To expand a little, if anyone actually cares... In the database, the collections to include and the collections to exclude, named resources to include and named resources to exclude  are all stored as links in 4 separate tables, they are not copied into the collection definition table.

Now, can you guess I like working with databases?

Regards,

Clinton

Posts 604
Pam Larson | Forum Activity | Replied: Fri, Nov 6 2009 8:39 AM

Clinton Thomas:

I've been playing with this software for 2 months and I've just discovered nested collections.

For nested collections, as far as I can tell, you add an existing collection to the plus or minus section by clicking on the Open chevron and then drag the collection you want to nest to either of the areas.

I just got to the same point this morning. I spent the last 30 minutes trying to figure out how to exclude one collection from another, gave up and searched the forum, and here's the answer. Thanks, Clinton!

 

Posts 517
John Duffy | Forum Activity | Replied: Thu, Nov 19 2009 11:39 AM

Mark, I've made a few collections, and nested them as noted above.  However, I find that they are not simply merged into one larger collection.  If I look at the larger collection, there is no distiction of where the resources came from, whether from a dynamic rule or from another collection.  So, when I'm doing a Passage Guide, if I select the collection to be the larger collection, I see results from all the resources in that large collection.  However, if I instead select the smaller collection, and start the guide again, I get results from only the smaller collection.

This means that we can make smaller collections like "Greek Dictionary", "Greek Grammar", etc, and nest them into a larger collection called simply "Greek". This way, we can have the best of both worlds, narrow collections and broad ones. This is just what I need.  It works in both collections and searches.

I haven't tested it on more than two levels (a collection nested within a collection that was nested within another collection), but the logic would seem to indicate that it would work in this way.

Does this work for anyone else?

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spitzerpl | Forum Activity | Replied: Thu, Nov 19 2009 11:52 AM

For those interested in a guide for collections, I've started a wiki on the subject.

http://wiki.logos.com/Collections

Posts 188
Kevin Taylor | Forum Activity | Replied: Thu, Nov 19 2009 12:05 PM

Actually I use a similar system with my books.  I have a tag for Theology which includes resources that are also sub tagged into smaller groups such as Dispensational Theology, Reformed Theology, Systematic Theology etc etc.  My Theological Journals are also broken into sub tags for types such as Dispensational or Reformed.

This allows to to do searches based on whatever school I need to draw from in that particular study.  The broader class is there when I need to have a larger amount of data despite the leanings of the resources.  This was the first thing I did after installing and indexing Logos 4 [well after playing a bit].

This results in me adding multiple tags to resources but once done I can pull any of them into any broad or sub class I need.  For instance, my favorite Systematic Theology is Lewis Sperry Chafer's 8 Vol set.  It is tagged as Theology, Systematic Theology, Dispensational Theology and with a Favorites tag.  I can easily pull this resource into any other collection I want to based on the multiple tags.

Works GREAT for me

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Posts 517
John Duffy | Forum Activity | Replied: Fri, Nov 20 2009 7:56 AM

KevinTaylor:
I have a tag for Theology which includes resources that are also sub tagged into smaller groups such as Dispensational Theology, Reformed Theology, Systematic Theology etc etc.  My Theological Journals are also broken into sub tags for types such as Dispensational or Reformed.

Kevin, I have started to make collections based on type, e.g. theology, systematic theology, doctrinal theology, etc.  However, I'm not keen to split them up according to the stance of that content type e.g. reformed, dispensational, arminian, egalatarian, complementarian, etc.

Instead, I'd like to be able to use tags to differentiate the stance, while using collections to differentiate between type of resource.  However, as I have been getting going on this, while there are benefits in using collections, and nested collections for detail or larger groupings, it seems to me that tags and collections do not work the way I expected.  I can group resources into collections and select which collection I do a search or passage guide under.  However, when I'm in the Library, I cannot see collections, but only have access to limit the selection by tags.  Is this correct?  Is there no way that I can search for a collection within the Library?  Is there no command line that will work? 

If I could use collections to distinguish not only collections, but also mytags to distinguish stance of authors, both within the library 'Find' filter box.  That would be great.

Any thoughts?

Posts 188
Kevin Taylor | Forum Activity | Replied: Fri, Nov 20 2009 9:10 AM

John Duffy:

KevinTaylor:
I have a tag for Theology which includes resources that are also sub tagged into smaller groups such as Dispensational Theology, Reformed Theology, Systematic Theology etc etc.  My Theological Journals are also broken into sub tags for types such as Dispensational or Reformed.

Kevin, I have started to make collections based on type, e.g. theology, systematic theology, doctrinal theology, etc.  However, I'm not keen to split them up according to the stance of that content type e.g. reformed, dispensational, arminian, egalatarian, complementarian, etc.

Instead, I'd like to be able to use tags to differentiate the stance, while using collections to differentiate between type of resource.  However, as I have been getting going on this, while there are benefits in using collections, and nested collections for detail or larger groupings, it seems to me that tags and collections do not work the way I expected.  I can group resources into collections and select which collection I do a search or passage guide under.  However, when I'm in the Library, I cannot see collections, but only have access to limit the selection by tags.  Is this correct?  Is there no way that I can search for a collection within the Library?  Is there no command line that will work? 

If I could use collections to distinguish not only collections, but also mytags to distinguish stance of authors, both within the library 'Find' filter box.  That would be great.

Any thoughts?

 

This would be a great feature to add and I agree would solve several issue with tags vs collections to get the right content at the right time.  See this thread for others discussing the same request, I definitely would welcome it!

http://community.logos.com/forums/t/5285.aspx

 

 

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Posts 28
Todd Anson Wilkins | Forum Activity | Replied: Fri, Nov 20 2009 1:10 PM

Philip Spitzer:

For those interested in a guide for collections, I've started a wiki on the subject.

http://wiki.logos.com/Collections

Thanks for wiki! Its helped me understand collections better.

Posts 28
Todd Anson Wilkins | Forum Activity | Replied: Fri, Nov 20 2009 1:11 PM

Great idea! I am going to honorably borrow your idea...

Posts 5337
Kevin Becker | Forum Activity | Replied: Fri, Nov 20 2009 1:15 PM

Nested collections will be very valuable to keep the prioritize list from being too long.

For example, you could make a collection of favorite NT commentaries and then prioritize that collection.

Posts 1084
Martin Folley | Forum Activity | Replied: Fri, Nov 20 2009 1:35 PM

I cannot try this now (PC still dead Crying) but would a collection that started rating:>=0 and having all your existing collections in the excluded list result in a collection of resources that are not in a collection?

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Posts 3810
spitzerpl | Forum Activity | Replied: Fri, Nov 20 2009 1:39 PM

Martin Folley:

I cannot try this now (PC still dead Crying) but would a collection that started rating:>=0 and having all your existing collections in the excluded list result in a collection of resources that are not in a collection?

Sounds like it would work to me.

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