Collection Help

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Floyd Johnson | Forum Activity | Posted: Thu, Sep 15 2011 8:35 AM

I am trying to create a collection of commentaries on Exodus - this is not difficult:

      Exodus

or

      title:Exodus OR subject:Exodus 

What these do not include are the one or two volume commentaries covering either the whole Bible or the Old and New Testaments in separate volumes.  So, I thought, I could easily create a collection of one and two volume commentaries which could be added to my more specific Exodus collection.

So, after much fiddling, I came up with this collection for one volume commentaries:

      subject:"Bible--Commentaries", subject:"Bible.--Commentaries."

Why there are two different subjects, I cannot explain, but some one volume commentaries have one subject, others have the other.

To add the NT commentaries, I added

     subject:"Bible. N.T.--Commentaries. " 

to the list.  Everything seemed to work at this point.  But when I added the equivalent OT subject

    subject:"Bible. O.T.--Commentaries. "

the whole collection reverted to zero items.

If I create a separate collection (that I can import into the one volume collection) with just this entry, I get about nine more entries.

Am I missing something?  Is there a simpler way to create a collection of one or two volume commentaries?  Thanks for any advice.

Floyd

Blessings,
Floyd

Pastor-Patrick.blogspot.com

Posts 1674
Paul N | Forum Activity | Replied: Thu, Sep 15 2011 8:42 AM

type:commentary along with one of your other ideas might get you closer to what you're looking for.

 

[EDIT] - I see what you mean about it not adding your 1 or 2 volume commentaries.  Still hunting...

Posts 5621
Todd Phillips | Forum Activity | Replied: Thu, Sep 15 2011 9:00 AM

Floyd Johnson:
Is there a simpler way to create a collection of one or two volume commentaries?  Thanks for any advice.

I built my single volume commentary collection manually (drag and drop) because I'm picky, but if you want to use a rule, this one might work for you (edit: see below):

subject:("Bible. N.T.--Commentaries.","Bible. O.T.--Commentaries.") -series:("Baker New Testament Commentary","Preacher's Commentary")

You need to make sure you use parentheses when using a comma separated list. Also, the BNTC and the Preacher's Commentary series are tagged with the "Bible. N.T.--Commentaries." subject, so I had to exclude them.  That rule returns this list of resources in my library

The Bible exposition commentary
The Bible readers companion
Commentary on the Old Testament.
The IVP Bible background commentary : New Testament
The IVP Bible background commentary : Old Testament
Nelson's New Testament Survey
Nelson's Old Testament Survey
New Testament commentary survey
Wiersbe's Expository Outlines on the Old Testament
Wiersbe's expository outlines on the New Testament
Word studies in the New Testament
Wuest's word studies from the Greek New Testament

EDIT: Actually that rule only returns volumes that are NT-only or OT-only.  If I add subject:"bible -- commentaries" I have to weed out WBC:

subject:("Bible. N.T.--Commentaries.","Bible. O.T.--Commentaries.","bible -- commentaries") -series:("Word Biblical Commentary","Baker New Testament Commentary","Preacher's Commentary")

And this rule is probably what you want.

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Posts 1674
Paul N | Forum Activity | Replied: Thu, Sep 15 2011 9:10 AM

Another option might be "mytagging" all of the one or two volume commentaries with a specific tag then adding this to the string:

type:commentary AND "exodus" OR subject:"Bible. O.T. Exodus--Commentaries"

BTW, Todd is the string I just suggested redundant?

With this i seem to pick up 5 more commentaries that don't show up under:

subject:"Bible. O.T. Exodus--Commentaries"

Posts 5621
Todd Phillips | Forum Activity | Replied: Thu, Sep 15 2011 9:15 AM

Paul Newsome:

type:commentary AND "exodus" OR subject:"Bible. O.T. Exodus--Commentaries"

BTW, Todd is the string I just suggested redundant?

Yes. This will find the same things:

type:commentary AND "exodus"

I don't think it would be possible where something is subject:Bible. O.T. Exodus--Commentaries but not type:commentary (unless Logos made a tagging error).

 

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Mark Barnes | Forum Activity | Replied: Thu, Sep 15 2011 10:32 AM

Floyd Johnson:
subject:"Bible--Commentaries", subject:"Bible.--Commentaries."

Punctuation is ignored* in the collections filter, so you should only need one of these. In fact subject:"Bible Commentaries" will work fine.

* When I say ignored I mean all punctuation is treated the same, and multiple punctuation is treated as one punctuation mark. So subject:"Bible Commentaries", subject:"Bible-Commentaries", or subject:"Bible**!*Commentaries" all find exactly the same result.

Floyd Johnson:

But when I added the equivalent OT subject

    subject:"Bible. O.T.--Commentaries. "

the whole collection reverted to zero items.

If I create a separate collection (that I can import into the one volume collection) with just this entry, I get about nine more entries.

Logos doesn't like the space before the closing double-quote. If you delete it, it will work fine.

Your resulting collection can be simplified to:

subject:("Bible Commentaries", "Bible N.T. Commentaries","Bible O.T. Commentaries")

However, that will include all sorts of non one-volume commentaries. You can help slightly by trying:

(subject:("Bible Commentaries", "Bible N.T. Commentaries","Bible O.T. Commentaries")) ANDNOT subject:"Bible Commentaries Collected Works"

But you'll still need to remove at least the Baker New Testament and Preacher's Commentary series.

 

Posts 3810
Floyd Johnson | Forum Activity | Replied: Thu, Sep 15 2011 10:47 AM

Thanks to everybody - Mark, your comment helped explain what I was seeing, except that the two versions of "Bible.--Commentaries." did produce different list of titles.  But eliminating all punctuation seemed to work.

Again, thanks for your assistance.

Blessings,
Floyd

Pastor-Patrick.blogspot.com

Posts 1674
Paul N | Forum Activity | Replied: Thu, Sep 15 2011 11:01 AM

It looks like a successful string would then be:

 

type:commentary AND "exodus" OR (subject:("Bible Commentaries", "Bible N.T. Commentaries","Bible O.T. Commentaries")) ANDNOT subject:"Bible Commentaries Collected Works" -series:("Word Biblical Commentary","Baker New Testament Commentary","Preacher's Commentary")


I only had to filter out 13 resources mostly dealing with the NT

After filtering, 33 resources were found in the collection

[EDIT] - ok nevermind, I noticed when merging the two suggested strings together the WBC and PC exodus volumes still needed to be added in manually for a total of 35

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Dave Hooton | Forum Activity | Replied: Thu, Sep 15 2011 6:31 PM

Mark Barnes:
(subject:("Bible Commentaries", "Bible N.T. Commentaries","Bible O.T. Commentaries")) ANDNOT subject:"Bible Commentaries Collected Works"

I don't have any resources with subject:"Bible Commentaries Collected Works" so I can drop that term. However, it's interesting that Logos never seem to use simple terms to detect inconsistencies:-

subject:("Bible Commentaries", "Bible N.T. Commentaries","Bible O.T. Commentaries")  brings up a Calendar Devotional, a Monograph and 2 x Bible Notes, but it is good at excluding commentaries on specific bible books.  More significantly it excludes single volume commentaries that don't deserve the title, but are type:Bible Commentary  e.g. The Bible Guide, Bible History: OT, Holman Bible Handbook, The New Manners and Customs of the Bible, The Outline Bible, Searching for Heaven on Earth. 

Logos, please pick up your game. These have all been listed in the Metadata wiki for a long time.

 

Dave
===

Windows 10 & Android 8

Posts 15805
Forum MVP
Keep Smiling 4 Jesus :) | Forum Activity | Replied: Thu, Sep 15 2011 11:40 PM

Observation: Commentary - Exodus collection rule:

Type:Commentary AND (Subject:Exodus OR (((Title:Bible AND Title:(History,New,Open,Study)) OR Title:(Background,Companion,Concise,"Homileticae Vol. 1",KJV,Knowledge,Nelson,Outline,Pentateuch,Philo,Summary,Teacher,Whole,Wycliffe)) ANDNOT Title:"New Testament"))

finds 36 resources in my Logos library (nothing to manually add or subtract since rule removes New Testament titles).

Edit: looking at titles of 36 resources, realized could change rule to:

Type:Commentary AND (Subject:Exodus OR (((Title:Bible AND Title:(Background,Companion,Concise,History,KJV,Knowledge,New,Open,Study,Summary,Whole,Wycliffe)) OR Title:("Homileticae Vol. 1",Nelson,Outline,Pentateuch,Philo,Teacher)) ANDNOT Title:"New Testament"))

since 12 resources have Bible in title (that include Exodus plus more).

Keep Smiling Smile

Posts 13419
Mark Barnes | Forum Activity | Replied: Fri, Sep 16 2011 2:30 AM

I wonder if we're making it too complicated. If the goal is to create a collection which included all commentaries on Exodus, plus all one-volume commentaries on the whole OT, plus all commentaries on the whole Bible, my own 'solution' would be:

  1. Create a collection for one-volume commentaries as described above.
  2. Create a collection for exodus with the simple string type:commentary AND (subject:exodus, title:exodus, mytag:exodus) and then add the One-Volume commentary collection to the "Plus these resources" side. The means that any adjustments you make to the one-volume collection in the future will be automatically reflected in the Exodus collection too.
  3. I would then run a passage guide on Exodus 1:1 across my whole library, and see if there are any commentaries listed that are not in my collection (e.g. Calvin's Commentaries on the four last books of Moses). I would then tag those commentaries with "exodus" which would then see them added to the Exodus collection.

 

Posts 3810
Floyd Johnson | Forum Activity | Replied: Fri, Sep 16 2011 6:00 AM

Thanks everybody - the initial question was how to build a collection of one and two volume commentaries.  

The Exodus portion is not difficult - once a collection of one and two volume commentaries is created, it can be added to any collection of commentaries on a particular book or author. 

Blessings,
Floyd

Pastor-Patrick.blogspot.com

Posts 15805
Forum MVP
Keep Smiling 4 Jesus :) | Forum Activity | Replied: Fri, Sep 16 2011 9:30 PM

Mark Barnes:

I wonder if we're making it too complicated. If the goal is to create a collection which included all commentaries on Exodus, plus all one-volume commentaries on the whole OT, plus all commentaries on the whole Bible, my own 'solution' would be:

  1. Create a collection for one-volume commentaries as described above.

Thanks, created a "Commentary Old and New Testament" collection using rule:

Type:Commentary AND (Author:Keil OR (Title:Bible AND Title:(Background,Companion,Concise,History,KJV,Knowledge,New,Open,Study,Summary,Whole,Wycliffe)) OR Title:(Nelson,Outline,Survey,Philo,Teacher))

After looking at collection, have option to manually exclude resource(s) or modify rule to not include them.  Some resources bit more than one volume.

Changed "Commentary 02 Exodus" collection rule to:

Type:Commentary AND (Subject:Exodus,Title:(Exodus,"Homileticae Vol.1"))

and added "Commentary Old and New Testament" collection.  Like option of adding MyTag if needed.

By the way, created "Commentary 64 John" collection using rule:

Type:Commentary AND (Subject:John, Title:John) ANDNOT Title:(Epistles,Letters,First,Second,Third,"1 John","2 John","3 John",Peter)

plus "Commentary Old and New Testament" collection.

Keep Smiling Smile

Posts 287
Jerry Walker | Forum Activity | Replied: Sun, Sep 18 2011 6:32 PM

See this is one of if not the most confusing things to do. I have a paper that is on John 13:1-17. How do I set up a collection on just that passage and ALL other resources that deal with that passage. Or a collection on the book of John and that passage. Can someone help with that?

Posts 3810
Floyd Johnson | Forum Activity | Replied: Sun, Sep 18 2011 7:28 PM

I don't know if you need a collection or a search.  To search non-biblical text for a Bible reference there are two related searches:

  1. <=John 13:1-17> will search for references to this passage exactly.
  2. <~John 13:1-17> will contain return references that contain all or part of the passage.

I am struggling to create a collection that will consist only texts on the Gospel of John.  I tried this:

       subject:"N.T. John" ANDNOT subject:("1 John", "2 John", "3 John", Revelation)

But I still see a few titles that are not on the Gospel of John - these titles will need to be eliminated manually.  There are those who know collection rules better than I do, they may have a better rule for books on the Gospel of John.

Blessings,
Floyd

Pastor-Patrick.blogspot.com

Posts 26809
Forum MVP
Dave Hooton | Forum Activity | Replied: Sun, Sep 18 2011 8:31 PM

Jerry Walker:
See this is one of if not the most confusing things to do. I have a paper that is on John 13:1-17. How do I set up a collection on just that passage and ALL other resources that deal with that passage.

You don't need to create unique collections for a passage. As a minimum you do need to set up a collection of favourite commentaries and prioritize at least 6 of them, then use them in a custom Guide. Also include the following sections:-

Topics, Parallel Passages and Cross-References.

You also might need a collection of non-commentary resources and include that in the Collections section of the Passage Guide. Start with type:encyclopedia. PG will search for references in those resources, but the articles may not necessarily be relevant which is why the sections above should be included.

Thereafter just enter whatever passage you are studying into the Passage Guide and refine your collections.

 

 

Dave
===

Windows 10 & Android 8

Posts 287
Jerry Walker | Forum Activity | Replied: Sun, Sep 18 2011 8:38 PM

Thanks guys!

 

Posts 15805
Forum MVP
Keep Smiling 4 Jesus :) | Forum Activity | Replied: Mon, Sep 19 2011 2:40 AM

Floyd Johnson:

I am struggling to create a collection that will consist only texts on the Gospel of John.  I tried this:

       subject:"N.T. John" ANDNOT subject:("1 John", "2 John", "3 John", Revelation)

But I still see a few titles that are not on the Gospel of John - these titles will need to be eliminated manually.  There are those who know collection rules better than I do, they may have a better rule for books on the Gospel of John.

For commentaries on Gospel of John wonder about rule:

Type:Commentary AND (Subject:John,Title:John) ANDNOT Subject:("Epistles of John","1 John", "John, 1st","2 John", "John, 2nd","3 John","John, 3rd",Revelation)

Observation: noticed a commentary series that includes John, but does not have John in subject: Horae Homileticae has "Bible--Homiletical use." subject.

Option: can filter library using Type:Commentary then sort resources by clicking subject (noticed subject tagging variances).

Apologies: looked closer at books in my Gospel of John collection (found some resources to exclude):

Keep Smiling 4 Jesus :):

By the way, created "Commentary 64 John" collection using rule:

Type:Commentary AND (Subject:John, Title:John) ANDNOT Title:(Epistles,Letters,First,Second,Third,"1 John","2 John","3 John",Peter)

Learned my Title filtering needed update (couple more exclusions):

Type:Commentary AND (Subject:John,Title:John) ANDNOT Title:(Apocalypse,Epistles,Letters,First,Second,Third,"1 John","2 John","3 John",Jude,Revelation)

Created "Commentary One Volume: New Testament" collection:

Type:("Bible Notes",Commentary) AND ((Title:Bible AND Title:(Background,Companion,Concise,KJV,Knowledge,NET,Open,Study,Whole,Wycliffe)) OR Title:(Nelson,Outline)) ANDNOT Title:Old

Created "Commentary One Volume: Old Testament" collection:

Type:("Bible Notes",Commentary) AND (Author:Keil OR (Title:Bible AND Title:(Background,Companion,Concise,History,KJV,Knowledge,NET,Open,Study,Whole,Wycliffe)) OR Title:(Nelson,Outline,Philo)) ANDNOT Title:"New Testament"

Keep Smiling Smile

Posts 15805
Forum MVP
Keep Smiling 4 Jesus :) | Forum Activity | Replied: Fri, Sep 23 2011 2:04 AM

Wonder about wiki improvement suggestions => Canonical Commentary Collections ?

Keep Smiling Smile

Posts 13419
Mark Barnes | Forum Activity | Replied: Fri, Sep 23 2011 4:12 AM

It's a great idea, but it's a bit more complex than that, when it comes to books that are very similar to one another. I haven't needed to write collection rules for all books of the Bible yet, but the ones I have are:

1 Corinthians: (subject:("1 Corinthians", "Corinthians, 1st", "Corinthians. 1st"), title:corinth) AND type:bible-commentary ANDNOT (title:("2 Corinthians", second, "II Corinthians") ANDNOT (title:(first, 1, "i"), subject:(1st, "1 Corinthians")))

1 Peter: type:commentary AND (title:peter OR subject:peter) ANDNOT ((subject:"2nd" OR title:"2 Peter") ANDNOT (subject:"1st" OR title:"1 Peter"))

Acts: type:commentary AND (title:acts, subject:acts)

Ephesians: type:bible-commentary (subject:ephesians, title:ephesians)

Exodus: type:commentary AND (subject:exodus, title:exodus)

Genesis: type:commentary AND (subject:genesis, title:genesis)

Hebrews: type:”bible commentary” AND (title:hebrews OR subject:hebrews)

John's Gospel: type:commentary AND (title:john OR subject:john) ANDNOT (subject:”1 John” OR subject:”2 John” OR subject:”3 John” OR subject:”John, 1st” OR subject:”John, 2nd” OR subject:”John, 3rd” OR subject:revelation OR subject:”epistles of john”)

John's Letters: type:commentary AND (title:john OR subject:john) ANDNOT (subject:revelation) {also add John's Gospel collection to 'minus these resources'}

Luke's Gospel: type:commentary and (title:luke, subject:luke)

Philippians: type:commentary (subject:philippians, title:philippians)

Psalms: type:commentary (title:psalm,subject:psalm)

 

 

 

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