HD automatic defragmentation

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Posts 156
Jesús Polaino | Forum Activity | Posted: Wed, Oct 12 2011 12:24 AM

     Good morning,

      I know that here are several people with high technical knowledge and because of this I would like to ask a technical question. I'm running Logos 4 in my desktop and the speed is OK, but very slow in my netbook (Samsung N210 Plus with 2Gb RAM). I know I can't expect too much from a netbook, but I'm trying to improve its performance.Because of this I'm thinking to use a program for an HD automatic defragmentation. Here are my questions:

      - Is this a good idea / better than manual defragmentation?

     - Can such a program damage the HD instead of improve performance?

     - I was thinking about two very different programs: Diskeeper Home 2011 and Iobit Smart Defrag 2.2. The first commercial, the second free. I true that Diskeeper can prevent fragmentation of the disk or is only a commercial affirmation? If the answer is no, can I get similar results with Iobit Smart Defrag 2.2 which is free?

     - Another recommendation for automatic defragmentation?

     Thanks very much for your help.

     Blessings,

Posts 2765
DominicM | Forum Activity | Replied: Wed, Oct 12 2011 1:06 AM

Personally  I wouldnt, I think you will notice  little if any difference, if they do a trial verion use the trial and see first if it does

I have an  even older NC-110 with 2gb ram and I dont defragment this, I would advise closing ALL non essential software while running Logos, but due to the graphics and  processor core speed, we are resigned to  occasional black "Logos is not responding.." windows

Never Deprive Anyone of Hope.. It Might Be ALL They Have

Posts 19362
Rosie Perera | Forum Activity | Replied: Wed, Oct 12 2011 1:25 AM

If you have Windows, it has a defrag facility built in, and you can schedule it to happen once a week or once a month or whatever you want. I wouldn't buy a commercial one. You don't need it.

Posts 156
Jesús Polaino | Forum Activity | Replied: Wed, Oct 12 2011 2:13 AM

DominicM:

Personally  I wouldnt, I think you will notice  little if any difference, if they do a trial verion use the trial and see first if it does

I have an  even older NC-110 with 2gb ram and I dont defragment this, I would advise closing ALL non essential software while running Logos, but due to the graphics and  processor core speed, we are resigned to  occasional black "Logos is not responding.." windows

 

I do the same, but after download a new resource and recreate the index, Auslogic Defrag (free) says that the file index.idx has 1400+ fragments and this makes Logos 4 to work even slower, I think

 

Blessings,

Posts 156
Jesús Polaino | Forum Activity | Replied: Wed, Oct 12 2011 2:20 AM

Rosie Perera:

If you have Windows, it has a defrag facility built in, and you can schedule it to happen once a week or once a month or whatever you want. I wouldn't buy a commercial one. You don't need it.

I know this Rosie, but it doesn't work well. I think other programs do better job. Until now, I'm using Auslogic Defrag (free) and it's much better than the Windows one. What I don't know is if Diskeeper (as promised) can prevent defragmentation. If not, I'll stay with free options.

Blessings,

Posts 27468
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Dave Hooton | Forum Activity | Replied: Wed, Oct 12 2011 2:22 AM

Jesus Polaino:
I was thinking about two very different programs: Diskeeper Home 2011 and Iobit Smart Defrag 2.2. The first commercial, the second free.

I no longer use Diskeeper Pro because it did not work as advertised  and I now use the free Defraggler, which is far superior to the Windows Defrag program and it can replace it when you select de-fragmentation in Windows Explorer.

Dave
===

Windows 11 & Android 8

Posts 27468
Forum MVP
Dave Hooton | Forum Activity | Replied: Wed, Oct 12 2011 2:45 AM

Jesus Polaino:
I do the same, but after download a new resource and recreate the index, Auslogic Defrag (free) says that the file index.idx has 1400+ fragments and this makes Logos 4 to work even slower, I think

That may indicate the amount of free space on your HD  e.g. my LibraryIndex (all files) has about 70 fragments after two small downloads. Yours needs to be defragmented but does it get back to a single fragment and is it done quickly? If you can also elect to defrag that file only then you have better performance than a particular automatic program which uses file access speed to decide when it has done enough work!

 

Dave
===

Windows 11 & Android 8

Posts 13423
Mark Barnes | Forum Activity | Replied: Wed, Oct 12 2011 2:46 AM

I use Smart Defrag (free), having previously paid for several versions of Diskeeper in the past. It does all that I need. It's worth getting a defragmenter, although they only make a tiny difference. You should make sure that your defragmenter will automatically defrag during idle periods, and can be set to defrag at book time (this ensures the page file, Windows system files and the MFT can get defragged).

The single biggest help you can give Logos is extra RAM. If you have some spare cash, it's much more worth spending it there than on defragging software. I would recommend a minimum of 1 Gb RAM for every 1,000 books that you own (although if you're not using 64-bit Windows, there's little point having more than 3Gb). Although Logos doesn't use the extra RAM directly, Windows uses it to cache files, and when it uses spare RAM to cache Logos index files you notice a considerable improvement in performance.

Posts 13423
Mark Barnes | Forum Activity | Replied: Wed, Oct 12 2011 2:52 AM

Just to add I looked at the software others recommend. Defraggler seems short of features, whilst Auslogic has some excellent features like MFT protection, system files optimisation and free space consolidation. Both lack boot-time defragmentation, however, which Smart Defrag has. If you only have one product, I'd therefore recommend SmartDefrag because of that feature, but I guess it would be possible to install both Smart Defrag and Auslogic and set Auslogic to do 'normal' defragging, and only set SmartDefrag for periodic boot defragging. That's probably overkill however.

Posts 732
Bootjack | Forum Activity | Replied: Wed, Oct 12 2011 2:58 AM

Sorry - I've used DiskKeeper for years and am not about to switch. It keeps the Toshiba totally happy without me doing anything - that is - it's all done in the background. Diskkeeper Professional and of course it isn't going to damage the Hard Drive.

Saying this, it would be comical I suppose should later today, little green coils of smoke ascending from the exhaust pipe on this rig. O lo & behold!!!??! 

Posts 156
Jesús Polaino | Forum Activity | Replied: Wed, Oct 12 2011 3:11 AM

Mark Barnes:

Just to add I looked at the software others recommend. Defraggler seems short of features, whilst Auslogic has some excellent features like MFT protection, system files optimisation and free space consolidation. Both lack boot-time defragmentation, however, which Smart Defrag has. If you only have one product, I'd therefore recommend SmartDefrag because of that feature, but I guess it would be possible to install both Smart Defrag and Auslogic and set Auslogic to do 'normal' defragging, and only set SmartDefrag for periodic boot defragging. That's probably overkill however.

Thanks for your replies, Mark.

In my desktop I'm using PageDefrag from Microsoft (well, I started using it  6-7 years ago whe it was from Sysinternals) together with Auslogic Defrag. I'm not sure if PageDefrag does the same than Smart Defrang boot-time defragmentation, but it looks quite similar. But, do you use the automatic defragmentation in Smart Defrag or only the manual defrag?

Another free program I'm considering is MyDefrag (formely JKDefrag) although it doesn't defrag automatically. What do you think about this program? Thanks again for your help.

Blessings,

Posts 128
Simon Pleasants | Forum Activity | Replied: Wed, Oct 12 2011 3:46 AM

Mark Barnes:

The single biggest help you can give Logos is extra RAM. If you have some spare cash, it's much more worth spending it there than on defragging software. I would recommend a minimum of 1 Gb RAM for every 1,000 books that you own (although if you're not using 64-bit Windows, there's little point having more than 3Gb). Although Logos doesn't use the extra RAM directly, Windows uses it to cache files, and when it uses spare RAM to cache Logos index files you notice a considerable improvement in performance.

Would using ReadyBoost (i.e., using flash disks as additional RAM) be a quick and dirty way to increase RAM? I have 8 Gb of RAM on my two-year old 64-bit-Windows system, but it's started to show signs of slowing down recently (a lot like it's owner!). I recently heard about ReadyBoost and was wondering if it might speed things up.

"Upon a life I did not live, Upon a death I did not die, Another's life, another's death, I stake my whole eternity"

Horatius Bonar

Posts 13423
Mark Barnes | Forum Activity | Replied: Wed, Oct 12 2011 4:31 AM

Bootjack:
Sorry - I've used DiskKeeper for years and am not about to switch.

If you've paid for Diskeeper, then it's certainly worth keeping. I only abandoned it when new versions of Windows rendered it obsolete and the upgrade charges were too high.

Posts 13423
Mark Barnes | Forum Activity | Replied: Wed, Oct 12 2011 4:38 AM

Jesus Polaino:
In my desktop I'm using PageDefrag from Microsoft (well, I started using it  6-7 years ago whe it was from Sysinternals) together with Auslogic Defrag. I'm not sure if PageDefrag does the same than Smart Defrang boot-time defragmentation, but it looks quite similar. But, do you use the automatic defragmentation in Smart Defrag or only the manual defrag?

PageDefrag + Auslogic looks like a good combination. I currently use auto defrag in SmartDefrag, but Auslogic has that feature too.

Jesus Polaino:
Another free program I'm considering is MyDefrag (formely JKDefrag) although it doesn't defrag automatically. What do you think about this program?

I personally wouldn't use a product that didn't auto-defrag. My computer is often idle, and I'd rather defragging happened automatically when I'm not around.

Posts 27468
Forum MVP
Dave Hooton | Forum Activity | Replied: Wed, Oct 12 2011 5:00 AM

Mark Barnes:
Defraggler seems short of features, whilst Auslogic has some excellent features like MFT protection, system files optimisation and free space consolidation. Both lack boot-time defragmentation

Defraggler  features include free space consolidation + boot-time defrag, and it allows system files optimisation via a choice of folders.

 

Dave
===

Windows 11 & Android 8

Posts 13423
Mark Barnes | Forum Activity | Replied: Wed, Oct 12 2011 5:06 AM

Simon Pleasants:
Would using ReadyBoost (i.e., using flash disks as additional RAM) be a quick and dirty way to increase RAM? I have 8 Gb of RAM on my two-year old 64-bit-Windows system, but it's started to show signs of slowing down recently (a lot like it's owner!). I recently heard about ReadyBoost and was wondering if it might speed things up.

I use ReadyBoost on my desktop PC (4Gb ReadyBoost + 6Gb RAM). It's hard to know whether it makes that much difference. ReadyBoost will not improve performance anywhere near as much as increasing RAM (flash memory is much slower than RAM). But it will make some difference, particularly if you have a slow HDD. However, ReadyBoost makes less difference the more RAM you have, as it only caches the paging file, and if you have a lot of RAM you won't use the paging file much.

To see if it might make a difference to Logos is complicated as ReadyBoost only speeds up what Windows calls hard page faults. To keep an eye on these look at the Page Reads/sec counted in Performance Monitor whilst you're using Logos. If you're getting lots of Page Reads, then ReadyBoost might well help  (though it may not be a tangible difference - but if you're able to shave off 0.5s in several areas of the program it all helps).

Posts 1669
SteveF | Forum Activity | Replied: Wed, Oct 12 2011 8:21 PM

Quote: Mark Barnes: The single biggest help you can give Logos is extra RAM. If you have some spare cash, it's much more worth spending it there than on defragging software. I would recommend a minimum of  (although if you're not using 64-bit Windows, there's little point having more than 3Gb). Although Logos doesn't use the extra RAM directly, Windows uses it to cache files, and when it uses spare RAM to cache Logos index files you notice a considerable improvement in

 

Mark my ram is already at 8 Gig but rarely shows over 48% used-are you suggesting even more? ie. "1 Gb RAM for every 1,000 books that you own"

I have room for more, but not thought it worth the extra funds.

Regards, SteveF

Posts 156
Jesús Polaino | Forum Activity | Replied: Thu, Oct 13 2011 12:07 AM

Dave Hooton:

Jesus Polaino:
I do the same, but after download a new resource and recreate the index, Auslogic Defrag (free) says that the file index.idx has 1400+ fragments and this makes Logos 4 to work even slower, I think

That may indicate the amount of free space on your HD  e.g. my LibraryIndex (all files) has about 70 fragments after two small downloads. Yours needs to be defragmented but does it get back to a single fragment and is it done quickly? If you can also elect to defrag that file only then you have better performance than a particular automatic program which uses file access speed to decide when it has done enough work!

 

Hi Dave,

I keep Auslogic because I can defrag only files or folders and sometimes I only defrag the index files. But the problem is that I have to think about possible fragmentation, start manually the program, find the files / folders I want to defrag... and this means time!!!  Call me lazy, but I prefer the "install & forget" approach. Why should I do something like this when the program can do it for me? I prefer to spend my time in other more productive things, like study the Bible.

Blessings,

Posts 13423
Mark Barnes | Forum Activity | Replied: Thu, Oct 13 2011 4:55 AM

SteveF:
Mark my ram is already at 8 Gig but rarely shows over 48% used

In modern versions of Windows there's no such thing as unused RAM. Any RAM that is not required by applications is used by Windows to cache files (it's called SuperFetch). If Windows starts caching Logos' files (index files and resources) then you'll notice a significant improvement in speed. If you have 8Gb RAM, then Windows will already be doing that a lot (you've probably got 4-6Gb available for caching), and that would be more than enough for most Logos users. Ideally, you'll want Windows to be caching the following files at least (file size on my PC [6,500 resources])

  • %localappdata%\Logos4\Data\{random}\LibraryCatalog\catalog.db (70Mb)
  • %localappdata%\Logos4\Data\{random}\KeyLinkManager\keylinkmanager.db (1Mb)
  • %localappdata%\Logos4\Data\{random}\ResourceManager\logos (1 Gb)
  • %localappdata%\Logos4\Data\{random}\BibleIndex (1.5Gb)
  • %localappdata%\Logos4\Data\{random}\LibraryIndex (6.5Gb)
  • %localappdata%\Logos4\Data\{random}\PersonalBookIndex (likely a few Mb)
  • Any books you currently have open or are displaying search results from (probably a few hundred meg or more depending on the search)

Of course, you can't control which files Windows will cache, it makes its own judgement based on useage. All I'm saying is that in an ideal situation, having those files in RAM will speed up Logos significantly.

But you can see that on my installation of about 6,500 resources the maximum useful cache size would be around 9Gb. Whilst that's the theoretical maximum, there is a law of diminishing returns, and because Windows doesn't need to cache the entire file each time, you don't really need this amount. But if you had say about half that available for caching these files, that would be ideal, as a rough estimate.

Using my logic, that would suggest a 6.5Gb system, which might give you around 4Gb for caching Logos files, and 2.5Gb for normal Windows/Logos memory usage.

You can see your own memory useage, and which Logos files are being cached by using RAMMap. When it's running look under the File Summary tab, and sort by path.

Posts 1669
SteveF | Forum Activity | Replied: Thu, Oct 13 2011 7:38 AM

Mark Barnes:
You can see your own memory useage, and which Logos files are being cached by using RAMMap. When it's running look under the File Summary tab, and sort by path.

Mark, Thanks for (all of) this helpful information.

Regards, SteveF

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