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This post has 85 Replies | 7 Followers

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JT (alabama24) | Forum Activity | Replied: Thu, Oct 13 2011 6:51 AM

Stephan de Wit:
Anyone agree?

For my sake, no. For your sake? YES! Smile I don't have a reason to download all my books. I have a few downloaded, but I have a good internet connection wherever I am.

macOS, iOS & iPadOS | Logs |  Install

Posts 485
Randy Lane | Forum Activity | Replied: Thu, Oct 13 2011 7:04 AM

I don't entirely hold Logos unresponsible. They should know what you have downloaded somehow.

But I find Apple far more irresponsible. There is no excuse for not being able to backup every last byte on the device, be it iPad or iPhone.

I repeat, no excuse!

Would you tolerate a backup system/process of your desktop or laptop if that system/process left out anything? I don't think so. If you do, you should not.

Posts 2898
Mike Childs | Forum Activity | Replied: Thu, Oct 13 2011 7:46 AM

Hmmm.  I believe that I will pass on iOS5 until there is a solution to this.  I have over 2,000 books on my iPad and do not have time to redownload everything. 

What about Preseus and the Civil War Collection?  How do you get that back?  Is it even available for download?

Logos does need to find a solution that will automaticily download books so that one does not have to download 2,000 books individually.  This is rediculous!  I have already had to do it more than once in the past.

"In all cases, the Church is to be judged by the Scripture, not the Scripture by the Church," John Wesley

Posts 485
Randy Lane | Forum Activity | Replied: Thu, Oct 13 2011 8:48 AM

Can "not" statements be applied in library searches? For example, I would like to scroll the iPad library without the Perseus books, which are so numerous that scrolling the library takes hours just to get through the alphbetical "A" listing. If the answer is yes, is there a guide for the library search function somewhere that might show other search syntax options, such as search criteria concantentation? That would alleviate some of the frustration with having to redownload everything. If not, take this a plea for more robust library search functions Logos.

Posts 118
Andrew Chuter | Forum Activity | Replied: Thu, Oct 13 2011 8:58 AM

I agree with the sentiments expressed in this topic. Very disappointing. This is the third occasion when I have lost all my Logos downloaded books. This also happened this time with my material from one of the other major Bible programs but  they provide the facility to download in one go all the books held on computer by wi-fi which is very straightforward.

                   Andrew Chuter

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JT (alabama24) | Forum Activity | Replied: Thu, Oct 13 2011 10:02 AM

Michael Childs:
I have over 2,000 books on my iPad

You individually downloaded all 2,000 books? Wow. That is Bulldog spirit. Smile

macOS, iOS & iPadOS | Logs |  Install

Posts 995
LogosEmployee
Dave Dunkin (Faithlife) | Forum Activity | Replied: Thu, Oct 13 2011 10:04 AM

Apple gives us several options for storing data in iOS applications: documents, application datacaches and temporary. Documents and application data are synced and backed up through iTunes and now iCould. Cache and temporary storage is not backed up. We follow Apple's recommendation of storing data that can be downloaded again in cache storage. In earlier iOS versions, all data was backed up, but Apple changed this because it made the backup process too slow and took too much space in iTunes.

iOS 5 is the first version I'm aware of that required a full reinstall. All previous versions have been upgradable, leaving all app data in place. Developers were not given notice that iOS 5 would be different. Had we known, we could have accelerated our plans to make bulk downloading and/or redownloading easier.

Posts 44
Ben Phillips | Forum Activity | Replied: Thu, Oct 13 2011 10:21 AM

Thanks Dave for the response. My apologies for the accusative tone the discussion took. I was just wondering why it happened and if it had a fix. Go figure that Apple changed things at the last moment. They did that with Lion and Microsoft did that with win 7. Too bad for the developers I guess. Thanks again for your work and I look forward to having a better download feature in the future. Love the app!

Ben

Posts 1
Jason Evans | Forum Activity | Replied: Thu, Oct 13 2011 1:39 PM

Thanks Dave. It's awesome to understand things, but I've got one more question.  Are they really thinking about adding a bulk download option? That would be awesome in my opinion.

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JT (alabama24) | Forum Activity | Replied: Thu, Oct 13 2011 2:01 PM

Jason Evans:
Are they really thinking about adding a bulk download option?

Jason - First, welcome to the forums!

To answer your question... According to his bio, Dave is the "Mobile software development lead for Logos Bible Software." So I think you can trust his comments. Wink


macOS, iOS & iPadOS | Logs |  Install

Posts 13420
Mark Barnes | Forum Activity | Replied: Thu, Oct 13 2011 2:40 PM

Dave Dunkin:
Documents and application data are synced and backed up through iTunes and now iCould. Cache and temporary storage is not backed up. We follow Apple's recommendation of storing data that can be downloaded again in cache storage. In earlier iOS versions, all data was backed up, but Apple changed this because it made the backup process too slow and took too much space in iTunes

I'm glad you did this, though understand the frustration of users with several hundred books to download. But It really would make sense if we could just tag books to be downloaded with a mobile-download tag - and if we downloaded those books manually, the app could add the tag for us. That way if this sort of thing happens again, we don't have to select the books for download again, they can re-download automatically. It would also mean that within our desktop app we could choose which books would download.

My iCloud backup clogged up completely because other apps aren't following these guidelines. One of my apps uploaded 2.9Gb to iCloud, and OliveTree's BibleReader uploaded nearly 800Mb. I've had to turn backup off for these and other apps.

Posts 485
Randy Lane | Forum Activity | Replied: Thu, Oct 13 2011 3:22 PM

Mark Barnes:

Dave Dunkin:
Documents and application data are synced and backed up through iTunes and now iCould. Cache and temporary storage is not backed up. We follow Apple's recommendation of storing data that can be downloaded again in cache storage. In earlier iOS versions, all data was backed up, but Apple changed this because it made the backup process too slow and took too much space in iTunes

I'm glad you did this, though understand the frustration of users with several hundred books to download. But It really would make sense if we could just tag books to be downloaded with a mobile-download tag - and if we downloaded those books manually, the app could add the tag for us. That way if this sort of thing happens again, we don't have to select the books for download again, they can re-download automatically. It would also mean that within our desktop app we could choose which books would download.

My iCloud backup clogged up completely because other apps aren't following these guidelines. One of my apps uploaded 2.9Gb to iCloud, and OliveTree's BibleReader uploaded nearly 800Mb. I've had to turn backup off for these and other apps.

Yes.

I would like to see a lot of the the management and destination-routing functions available from a users Amazon account for Kindle(s) available to Logos users, both from our user accounts on Logos.com and from our desktops.

Posts 1880
Philana Crouch | Forum Activity | Replied: Thu, Oct 13 2011 9:35 PM

Dave Dunkin:

Apple gives us several options for storing data in iOS applications: documents, application datacaches and temporary. Documents and application data are synced and backed up through iTunes and now iCould. Cache and temporary storage is not backed up. We follow Apple's recommendation of storing data that can be downloaded again in cache storage. In earlier iOS versions, all data was backed up, but Apple changed this because it made the backup process too slow and took too much space in iTunes.

iOS 5 is the first version I'm aware of that required a full reinstall. All previous versions have been upgradable, leaving all app data in place. Developers were not given notice that iOS 5 would be different. Had we known, we could have accelerated our plans to make bulk downloading and/or redownloading easier.

Very excited about the bulk download!

Posts 44
Ben Phillips | Forum Activity | Replied: Fri, Oct 14 2011 2:16 AM

Here is a blog post by the creator of Instapaper that expands greatly upon what Dave said above: http://www.marco.org/2011/10/13/ios5-caches-cleaning.  What happened to Logos is obviously a problem that several developers are having to address.  Come on Apple, fix this!

Posts 13420
Mark Barnes | Forum Activity | Replied: Fri, Oct 14 2011 3:10 AM

Ben Phillips:
 What happened to Logos is obviously a problem that several developers are having to address.  Come on Apple, fix this!

True, and shame on Apple for making changes without thinking through the consequences. That said, Logos could have partially mitigated the problem by at least storing the list of which files we wanted downloading in our documents folder. That way we'd still have to redownload the files, but at least we wouldn't have to select them all manually again.

Posts 44
Ben Phillips | Forum Activity | Replied: Fri, Oct 14 2011 5:09 AM

Mark, I agree. And hopefully we will see this improved with Logos and other developers as well as they learn Apple's idiosyncrecies. 

Posts 1367
JimTowler | Forum Activity | Replied: Fri, Oct 14 2011 8:40 AM

Wow Apple and Logos! How about better tools and full backup options please. I am support being able to download offline books based on a tag, or better, a collection that we can define. I really do not want ALL titles offline based on how poorly the app seemed to handle the startup processing last time I had some 2000 titles. Well we are about backups and loss of data, please add a real backup/export and restore/import for user-data. The Apple and Logos clouds are not a backup - just a sync method.

Posts 1565
PL | Forum Activity | Replied: Fri, Oct 14 2011 10:00 AM

To Bob and Dave:

This re-download process is extremely time consuming and totally avoidable.  I sincerely hope that this is the very last we have to do this again.  Please fix the download process as a high priority.

Please understand that many (most) of us either cannot afford or do not want to have a 3G plan to go with the iPad / iPod Touch, so offline usability is extremely important to us.  Please add more features (such as real search, passage guide, text comparison, etc) to the offline mode of the mobile apps.

Thanks!

Peter

Posts 317
Bruce Roth | Forum Activity | Replied: Fri, Oct 14 2011 12:38 PM

Maybe Logos could keep a list of the downloaded books on our account page.  After I upgraded to iOS5, and I opened Read It Later, it prompted me that I would need to redownload all the articles that I had on the Itouch as they were not backed up.  Since the articles are available on the server it was just a matter of selecting to download the list and wait for the articles to come back.

 

Posts 1374
nicky crane | Forum Activity | Replied: Sat, Oct 15 2011 12:30 PM

I had major problems downloading IOS5.  I did it here in Germany, where I am for the next couple of weeks, as I had far better internet than in Albania.  But it got interrupted, refused to sync properly, but didn't tell me so.  Then I synced back from my last sync, 29th September.  And that got interrupted, so was incomplete.  I had to attempt to install IOS5 several times.  Then couldn't open either Logos or Vyrso, till I found a workaround.  Then, of course I'd lost all my books.  I downloaded a basic few, as I am without wifi for the next 2 weeks. Have gone OFF IOS5!  But have Logos and Vyrso usable,tho less so than before.  I think it would be an excellent idea to have the option of redownloading previously downloaded books.

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