Logos4 is garbage

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This post has 100 Replies | 3 Followers

Posts 13
Glen Kaiser | Forum Activity | Posted: Mon, Oct 17 2011 10:01 PM

I still can't get this thing to work.  We need to spend ours online on these blogs just to find out how to make it work?  It should work right out of the box without all this trouble!  Logos3 (libonix) is much better than this mess.  You need to go back to the drawing board and redesign this thing from scratch.

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Jacob Hantla | Forum Activity | Replied: Mon, Oct 17 2011 10:31 PM

Logos4 was designed from scratch so that it just works. That has been the experience of most, but as with any complex piece of software you will benefit from learning from "power users." Adobe Photoshop is far from garbage and you could take courses full time for well over a year and not master it. Libronix (Logos3)  also had a learning curve (a steeper one in my opinion and experience). If you are having a specific problem (i.e. with install) or having difficulty understanding a feature,  please ask. This post doesn't give us much to go on to help you get going. 

Jacob Hantla
Pastor/Elder, Grace Bible Church
gbcaz.org

Posts 1674
Paul N | Forum Activity | Replied: Mon, Oct 17 2011 10:44 PM

Glen Kaiser:

I still can't get this thing to work.  We need to spend ours online on these blogs just to find out how to make it work?  It should work right out of the box without all this trouble!  Logos3 (libonix) is much better than this mess.  You need to go back to the drawing board and redesign this thing from scratch.

Glen, you're not the first to make this mistake but by posting on the forums you are speaking to a large community of Logos users.  I imagine people talking in a large room, when the door slams open.  Everyone who was talking immediately turns their attention to the door to hear "Logos4 is garbage!"  Then the person standing in the doorway, addressing the crowd of people, says "You need to go back to the drawing board and redesign this thing from scratch".

customerservice@logos.com might be a better avenue for direct talk with Logos, or you could always give them a call/skype

As users, we'd be happy to help where we can...

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MJ. Smith | Forum Activity | Replied: Mon, Oct 17 2011 11:02 PM

Glen Kaiser:
We need to spend ours online on these blogs just to find out how to make it work? 

I went back through your prior posts to see what made you come to this conclusion. I know that some say the user interface is intuitive. Well, I'd say intuitive as video games - if you've play them they're obvious; if you haven't you click around hoping to accidentally run into a click that does something. Logos 4, does, however, have some excellent user-produced videos and a wiki of hints. If you don't have the patience to poke around, try these resources until you get the hang of how Logos works.

Orthodox Bishop Hilarion Alfeyev: "To be a theologian means to have experience of a personal encounter with God through prayer and worship."

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Lynden Williams | Forum Activity | Replied: Mon, Oct 17 2011 11:28 PM

MJ. Smith:
Logos 4, does, however, have some excellent user-produced videos and a wiki of hints. If you don't have the patience to poke around, try these resources until you get the hang of how Logos works.

Here is the link. http://www.logos.com/videos/pc. If you are using a Mac, then go here. http://www.logos.com/videos/mac. Also see the support videos. http://www.logos.com/support/videos

Lynden Williams Communications https://www.lyndenwilliams.net 

Posts 15805
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Keep Smiling 4 Jesus :) | Forum Activity | Replied: Mon, Oct 17 2011 11:54 PM

Follow-up to one forum discussion is wiki page => Getting Started with Logos that includes many Tips and links, including excellent unofficial videos.

For Logos 4 search speed improvement, local indexing is needed, which definitely slows "out of box" experience.

By the way, appears Logos 4.5 Beta 2 is noticeably quicker to launch and includes Notes/Highlighting design change.

Keep Smiling Smile

Posts 732
Bootjack | Forum Activity | Replied: Tue, Oct 18 2011 2:57 AM

Yea Glen, you have to pick the program back out of the garbage box and install it back on your computer - follow the directions and then your grief will vapourize like an early morning fog.   :-} 

Posts 3810
spitzerpl | Forum Activity | Replied: Tue, Oct 18 2011 3:38 AM

Given that your posts go back to January and before I'm assuming you've had a decent amount of experience with it. Personally I love the program and think it is far better then L4. I'd love to see a list of some of the things you least like about it.

Posts 291
Bob Schlessman | Forum Activity | Replied: Tue, Oct 18 2011 4:40 AM

Glen Kaiser:

I still can't get this thing to work.  We need to spend ours online on these blogs just to find out how to make it work?  It should work right out of the box without all this trouble!  Logos3 (libonix) is much better than this mess.  You need to go back to the drawing board and redesign this thing from scratch.

I second everything the other forum members have already said.

I also migrated initially from L3. I was also very frustrated by the differences between the two packages, to the point of removing Logos 4 from my computer completely and going back to L3 for a few weeks. But I decided to give it another try, taking the time to watch the videos mentioned earlier and reading through the forums. My productivity improved and I eventually made the switch to L4 completely. I no longer have L3 on my systems.

L4 is to Bible study/reference software what Adobe Photoshop is to photography. It is a complex and powerful tool that takes a significant investment of time to learn, but is well worth the investment. The payback for me has been rewarding. Don't give up. Follow the suggestions given here and I know you will be glad you did.

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JT (alabama24) | Forum Activity | Replied: Tue, Oct 18 2011 5:07 AM

Glen Kaiser:
It should work right out of the box without all this trouble!

Logos does work "right out of the box." So does a lawnmower. You still have to learn how to turn it on to use it.

Glen Kaiser:
I still can't get this thing to work.  We need to spend ours online on these blogs just to find out how to make it work?

Whose fault is it if you have been spending "hours" on these blogs if you haven't asked any questions? Is there a particular problem you are dealing with now? Also, have you even taken training or watched some videos? You can start with these FREE ONES, or MP|Seminars , or LearnLogos

macOS, iOS & iPadOS | Logs |  Install

Posts 2964
tom | Forum Activity | Replied: Thu, Oct 20 2011 6:20 AM

Wow, can you feel the love coming from MVP's?  

IMHO, this is yet another case of someone who is having a bad experience with L4, and a good number of MVP's are jump all over the poster for posting his frustrations.

(More of MHO) L4 has been out for almost two years now.  When it came out, it received a lot of bad comments.  Two years later, the number of negative comments about L4 has decreased; still, it is still receiving these same negative comments.  This should tell us a lot about L4.

 

Posts 3810
spitzerpl | Forum Activity | Replied: Thu, Oct 20 2011 6:41 AM

tom collinge:

(More of MHO) L4 has been out for almost two years now.  When it came out, it received a lot of bad comments.  Two years later, the number of negative comments about L4 has decreased; still, it is still receiving these same negative comments.  This should tell us a lot about L4.

 

The only thing it tells me for sure about L4 is that it is a program. All programs have those who think the program isn't what they want or expect. I have no problem with someone posting their frustrations. However I do have a problem with someone posting that they are frustrated without posting their frustrations.

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Rich DeRuiter | Forum Activity | Replied: Thu, Oct 20 2011 6:54 AM

tom collinge:
Wow, can you feel the love coming from MVP's?  

Actually, most of the MVP posts have attempted to reach out to Glen with a careful but generally hospitable tone. One of them met parry with parry. Even then, one recognizes that for some folks, a direct contradiction is more effective than other ways of dealing with the conflict. I suppose one could read more into those other MVP posts than I do, but then one could read more into any post than is there.

I've chosen not to respond to Glen, since others have, and he's not come back to respond.It's not easy to help people who aren't directly asking for help and who won't say what they want help with. If he just wants to vent, that's fine. I think asking for help is a better way to go, but people are free to express their opinions (as long as we are free to disagree with them too).

But I did choose to respond to you because your statement above seems to exaggerate what's actually happened here.

tom collinge:
(More of MHO) L4 has been out for almost two years now.  When it came out, it received a lot of bad comments.  Two years later, the number of negative comments about L4 has decreased; still, it is still receiving these same negative comments.  This should tell us a lot about L4.

What it tells us is that for those who mastered Libronix find L4 baffling for certain kinds of work. Many, many people who never used Libronix find L4 fairly easy to get started in, and not too difficult to master incrementally. Many others who were adept in Libronix found L4 awkward at first, but now like it much better (I'm in that camp). At least that's the pattern I've noticed, since the beginning, and seems to be the case for this person too.

 Help links: WIKI;  Logos 6 FAQ. (Phil. 2:14, NIV)

Posts 11433
DMB | Forum Activity | Replied: Thu, Oct 20 2011 8:21 AM

Tom ... it's not by accident the MVP symbol is the same as the US army's one star (NATO's is a little more stylish - 3D).

But let's be fair and go over the evidence:

New Logosian particpant: 'can't get this thing to work', doesn't think hours of on-line research should be needed; compares the Logos4 product to Libronix in a negative way.

Logosian One-Star #1: 'Logos4 was designed from scratch so that it just works.' This demonstrates that the new Logosian was simply wrong. The One-Star goes on to compare Logos4 to a professional art package: message Logos is for power-users. Are you a power-user?

Logosian One-Star#2: Points out that saying bad things about Logos4 is not good form. It interrupts the other forum members calm conversations. Better to send an email to customer service (the same customer service that re-directs frustrated users to the forum).

Logosian One-Star#3: Checks out the complaintant's prior record. Seems to suggest Logos4 is about as intuitive as a video game. Recommends exactly what the user was most frustrated with: lots of research and poking around.

Logosian One-Star#4: Seems to agree with One-Star#3 and provides the address to the wiki etc. Clearly the user simply needs to study a lot in order to begin to use the software.

Day 2

Logosian One-Star#5: He also seems to have checked out the user, noting approximately 8 months of possible use before coming to the conclusion the software isn't easy to use. Politely asks what might be the problem?

Logosian One-Star#6:  He returns to the major point that One-Star #1 made (just in case the user missed this point and of course the primary complaint in the first place). But the proof is not the equivalence to a professional art package, but rather a lawn mower (presumably implying one must do hours of on-line research and video watching in order to use the lawn-mower). Additionally, any responsibility must be assigned correctly: the real problem is a user who thinks software should work without hours of on-line research and video watching.

Days Later

Logosian One-Star#5: Appears concerned about criticism concerning One-Star performance. Insists that a proper complaint must include specifically what the problem is.

Logosian One-Star#7:  Expresses great pride in One-Star performance, noting that one 'met parry with parry' and even contradicted the complainant (this sometimes being necessary for 'some' folks). Seems surprised the complainant never returned.

Now personally I enjoy the comments of each of the one-stars. Indeed it would be enjoyable to share worship services as well. But one does see a little humor in the process.

 

 

"God will save his fallen angels and their broken wings He'll mend."

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Rich DeRuiter | Forum Activity | Replied: Thu, Oct 20 2011 8:38 AM

Denise Barnhart:
Logosian One-Star#7:  Expresses great pride in One-Star performance, noting that one 'met parry with parry' and even contradicted the complainant (this sometimes being necessary for 'some' folks). Seems surprised the complainant never returned.

Actually, I'm not surprised.

 Help links: WIKI;  Logos 6 FAQ. (Phil. 2:14, NIV)

Posts 3163
Dominick Sela | Forum Activity | Replied: Thu, Oct 20 2011 9:03 AM

Denise Barnhart:

Tom ... it's not by accident the MVP symbol is the same as the US army's one star (NATO's is a little more stylish - 3D).

But let's be fair and go over the evidence:

Denise, trying to get this productively back on topic, what would be your advice for Glen?

Posts 11433
DMB | Forum Activity | Replied: Thu, Oct 20 2011 9:20 AM

Dominick ... Glen's problem is with the folks that designed Logos4. His basic complaint was that it requires a considerable (and in his view unnecessary) investment to make basic use of. The MVP's essentially confirmed what he said (while appearing to argue that Bible software can not be designed for easy use).

I'm not a good one to ask, since I agree with Glen. And all the folks I know think the software is either unnecessarily slow or complicated.

What's the solution?

 Well, taking a page out of Bob's book, either fix it (if you're Logos) or fire it (if you're the unbelievably frustrated user).

 

"God will save his fallen angels and their broken wings He'll mend."

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JT (alabama24) | Forum Activity | Replied: Thu, Oct 20 2011 9:23 AM

Denise - Which "Logosian One-Star am I?" ... Nevermind. Stick out tongue

macOS, iOS & iPadOS | Logs |  Install

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Friedrich | Forum Activity | Replied: Thu, Oct 20 2011 9:29 AM

wow.  a lot of internal dynamics, unspoken, but displayed on this thread.  i don't see a lot of mutuality or patience.  frankly, when i read the post, my immediate reaction wasn't patience or mutuality, either.  Speaking now specifically to Glen, I am truly sorry you are not finding it helpful.  Many are here to try and help you as we can.  I know I have experienced my own weariness in months/years past when switching from L3 to L4.  I really don't now.  I realized some still do.  I really like L4 better now, I realized some don't.  I weary of my, and others responses that display our own frayed emotions, or cut-and-dry answers.  I also weary of cries of frustration or for help sounding more like accusations, which is why I initially reacted with impatience to the original title and subsequent post.  I like Logos a LOT, even as I felt varying degrees of frustration about the software in all of its manifestations: 2.x, 3.x, and now 4. I am not a logos employee.  i come to the forums on my free time.  I am a dad of four, husband to one, don't know tons about technology or theology, but I use both.  i'm on break at work right now.  i'm glad the Cards won last night.  I laughed when I heard my 5 year old call it the World Serious. (just sharing a bit that is on my radar as I write this)  If I can help, i will.  if i cannot, hopefully someone else can, whether a forum member (starred, or not) or Logos helper.  Peace.

I like Apples.  Especially Honeycrisp.

Posts 1829
Rick | Forum Activity | Replied: Thu, Oct 20 2011 9:30 AM

Denise Barnhart:
Well, taking a page out of Bob's book, either fix it (if you're Logos) or fire it (if you're the unbelievably frustrated user).

Out of curiosity, have you "fired it"? Did you go back to Libronix or do you use something else that is not Logos produced?

 

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