Dear Bob Pritchett, may I have a moment of your time?

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Posts 524
Stuart Robertson | Forum Activity | Posted: Mon, Oct 24 2011 11:12 AM

Attention: Bob Pritchett

 

Dear Mr Pritchett,

As a long and hitherto loyal Logos customer, I would like to ask you to do two things:

  1. Firstly, I'd like you to experience Logos 4 on Mac for yourself and share your experiences. That is, I'd like to ask you to run a Bible Word Study and attempt to use the results. Also attempt a simple search and try to use the results. Please complete both word-study and search using the steps below. Then please post your thoughts about whether you feel your experience is in line with what Logos as a company has promised to its customers.
  2. Secondly, I would like to ask you to comment on this forum thread.

If you complete the first of the above two tasks I suspect you will be better able to understand the sentiments expressed in the forum thread I've asked you to comment on.

I look forward to hearing about your experiences and thoughts.

Sincerely,

Stuart Robertson.

Bible Word Study Test

  1. Open up a Macbook / iMac with 8GB RAM (a powerful machine by modern standards) with the latest operating system (OS X 10.7.2).
  2. Start up Logos 4.5 beta 3.
  3. Open an ESV Bible pane.
  4. Navigate to Exodus 15.11
  5. Right-click on the word 'LORD' and select "Bible Word Study"
  6. Scroll down to the GRAMMATICAL RELATIONSHIPS section.
  7. Expand the first "twistie" beneath "Subject of... 'Amar - to say'.
  8. Now try to scroll down in the Word Study window.
  9. Next, click on the "More >>" link (below the results you just scrolled through).
  10. Finally, scroll up and down in the Bible Word Study window.

NOTE: You might not be able to complete this exercise as Logos usually crashes at step 9. I apologize in advance for any disappointment this may cause.

Simple Search Test

  1. Restart Logos (don't worry - you'll get used to restarting Logos for Mac frequently)
  2. Press Cmd+Shift+S or click on the Magnfying glass to start new search.
  3. Select 'Bible' as the type of search and set up to search 'All Bible text' in 'All Passages' in 'ESV'.
  4. Type holy OR holiness in the search field and press Enter.
  5. Now scroll up and down through the results list. Click on a few search results. And scroll through the search results a bit more.

NOTE: If you find Logos crashes while scrolling through the search results or while you attempt certain basic tasks, you might want to reboot your Mac and/or enable debug logging and send log files to the forum.

 

 

Posts 524
Stuart Robertson | Forum Activity | Replied: Mon, Oct 24 2011 11:13 AM

Link to the forum thread is here: http://community.logos.com/forums/t/40072.aspx

 

Posts 524
Stuart Robertson | Forum Activity | Replied: Mon, Oct 24 2011 4:27 PM

Hi Bob,

I'm guessing you're either out of town, have run into difficulties with the two tests, or are still typing up your experiences with Logos on Mac...?

Seriously, though, when you get a chance I really would like to hear your thoughts.  I'm guessing that you don't actually use Logos for Mac on a daily basis so I'm keen to hear whether, after completion of the above tests, you think Logos for Mac provides an acceptable user experience. Confident that these matters are important to you, I'm hoping you'll express concern about the current level of usability and stability and voice your firm commitment to fix what's broken and make good the promises made. 

Yours in hope,

Stuart.

Posts 570
HansK | Forum Activity | Replied: Mon, Oct 24 2011 4:45 PM

I am not Bob Big Smile

But the test worked fine for me on the lastest stable Mac version.

I am working with Logos 4 Mac andnd Accordance on a daily basis and enjoy using both programs.

As you must know, beta versions are not supported, you may test them and let the software developers know your concerns and the crashes you experience. Please consider using a stable version.

Personally, I do not find THIS a right way to address Bob and/or Logos with your concerns.

Just my thoughts for this moment.

Greetings from The Netherlands,

Hans

MacOS Sierra / Logos 7 Collector's Edition & All Base Packages / Logos Now

Posts 1416
Wes Saad | Forum Activity | Replied: Mon, Oct 24 2011 5:19 PM

Stuart,

I'm sorry for the trouble you are having, but understand that beta software can be expected to behave in beta ways. You have chosen to use the beta despite warnings that instability may come along with it. By making this choice, you are helping to improve the product. Your logs, your reports, your discussion of the issue gives devs things to look at to find bugs in the code. But it is unreasonable to protest when beta code acts like beta code.

It is possible to switch from beta to stable. It can be a headache, but it can be done. If the behavior of the beta software is too much, remove your Logos files from Applications and from Library/Application Support/Logos4 and reload Logos again, using the stable version.

Posts 3810
spitzerpl | Forum Activity | Replied: Mon, Oct 24 2011 6:49 PM

Stuart Robertson:

Bible Word Study Test

  1. Open up a Macbook / iMac with 8GB RAM (a powerful machine by modern standards) with the latest operating system (OS X 10.7.2).
  2. Start up Logos 4.5 beta 3.
  3. Open an ESV Bible pane.
  4. Navigate to Exodus 15.11
  5. Right-click on the word 'LORD' and select "Bible Word Study"
  6. Scroll down to the GRAMMATICAL RELATIONSHIPS section.
  7. Expand the first "twistie" beneath "Subject of... 'Amar - to say'.
  8. Now try to scroll down in the Word Study window.
  9. Next, click on the "More >>" link (below the results you just scrolled through).
  10. Finally, scroll up and down in the Bible Word Study window.

NOTE: You might not be able to complete this exercise as Logos usually crashes at step 9. I apologize in advance for any disappointment this may cause.

I would definitely recommend you post these findings to the appropriate Beta forum. They will want to know about them so they don't creep into the stable versions.

Posts 29797
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JT (alabama24) | Forum Activity | Replied: Mon, Oct 24 2011 7:27 PM

I can unfortunately confirm this behavior on my computer running 4.3 SR5. 

macOS, iOS & iPadOS | Logs |  Install

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Lynden Williams | Forum Activity | Replied: Mon, Oct 24 2011 7:40 PM

Definitely a Mac problem. Windows had no problem with it. 4.5 SR 3

Lynden Williams Communications

Posts 757
Fr. Charles R. Matheny | Forum Activity | Replied: Mon, Oct 24 2011 7:41 PM

I also can confirm this as well as several other breakages, which have been reported properly, over and over and over again.

I am using the latest stable release 4.3 SR5.

Screen shared with tech support to solve issues.

Tech support reports cannot fix most issues.

The Problem is not us.

The Problem is not Mac.

This Crash is exactly duplicated on my machine.

Posts 44
Ben Phillips | Forum Activity | Replied: Mon, Oct 24 2011 7:55 PM

Running Mac with 4.5 SR-5 with no problems whatsoever performing the test.  It seems to react differently with different people.  Considering that some are running Beta and others are not but are having the same problem, the problem could possibly be a resource issue.  Some individuals may have a resource from which Logos is pulling that is causing the crash that others do not.  I have the platinum package with additional resources I have purchased so mine is pulling from quite a few.  Don't know the solution but it is obviously not a universal problem.

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Matthew C Jones | Forum Activity | Replied: Mon, Oct 24 2011 8:08 PM

Stuart Robertson:
Start up Logos 4.5 beta 3.

Aahh... You are talking about the beta software. The version that is offered  to adventurous users for testing purposes; the version that warns of instability and crashes. You should feel proud yo have helped identify an area that needs addressing. (That's what beta testers do.) Test pilots like Chuck Yeager endured many crashes. At least your Logos beta crash was not fatal. Wink

Thanks for helping make Logos 4 Mac better for end users like myself. Chris already offered a better response:

Chris Roberts:

Stuart,

I'm sorry for the trouble you are having, but understand that beta software can be expected to behave in beta ways. You have chosen to use the beta despite warnings that instability may come along with it. By making this choice, you are helping to improve the product. Your logs, your reports, your discussion of the issue gives devs things to look at to find bugs in the code. But it is unreasonable to protest when beta code acts like beta code.

It is possible to switch from beta to stable. It can be a headache, but it can be done. If the behavior of the beta software is too much, remove your Logos files from Applications and from Library/Application Support/Logos4 and reload Logos again, using the stable version.

 

Logos 7 Collectors Edition

Posts 8967
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Matthew C Jones | Forum Activity | Replied: Mon, Oct 24 2011 8:12 PM

Fr. Charles R. Matheny:

I also can confirm this as well as several other breakages, which have been reported properly, over and over and over again.

I am using the latest stable release 4.3 SR5.

Screen shared with tech support to solve issues.

Tech support reports cannot fix most issues.

The Problem is not us.

The Problem is not Mac.

This Crash is exactly duplicated on my machine.

Uh-Oh. So this is happening with the stable release too? Has anyone actually had this failure iin Windows? I have encountered a few programs that are not running properly under Mac OS X 10.7.1 LION. Logos is not one of them.

Logos 7 Collectors Edition

Posts 757
Fr. Charles R. Matheny | Forum Activity | Replied: Mon, Oct 24 2011 8:23 PM

Dear ST: There are a slew of things not running correctly in logos for Mac, a huge number, in leopard , snow leopard and Lion.

I reported some "basic features" not working to Logos last week, they had no idea were not working and, had no fix.

Blessings

Posts 3810
spitzerpl | Forum Activity | Replied: Mon, Oct 24 2011 8:24 PM

alabama24:
I can unfortunately confirm this behavior on my computer running 4.3 SR5. 

Ah, If it's happening on a stable release, then I leave the conversation since I am stuck on my lowly Windows laptop and cannot test it out.

Posts 1875
Paul-C | Forum Activity | Replied: Tue, Oct 25 2011 2:07 AM

I can also confirm that Logos crashes on doing the above Exodus search.  I'm using the following version of L4:

Logos Bible Software 4.3 SR-5

I am also running OS X 10.7.2 but only have a mid-2010 MacBook with 4GB of RAM.

Posts 667
Jonathan Pitts | Forum Activity | Replied: Tue, Oct 25 2011 2:20 AM

I'm running Logos on Windows 7. I can complete the above search, but it does take a while.

I get the impression that the delays I get are from my limited graphics capability (no separate graphics card on my laptop) rather than the processing. The actual search seems to be completed in a few seconds, but displaying it is more difficult and gets even more difficult when you hit "more".

I don't know much about Mac, but if wonder if it is a graphics problem you are having there. Your 8 GB of RAM would therefore be irrelevant; the graphics processing power would be the limiting factor.

Hope this helps.

Posts 524
Stuart Robertson | Forum Activity | Replied: Tue, Oct 25 2011 3:05 AM

For the record, I've run both the "stable" versions as well as the betas, having gone through the pain in time past to switch from the beta back to a "stable" version, and recently to switch from a "stable" version to a beta, in the hope that the betas might solve the steady stream of bugs, hangs and crashes that I run into daily. And, no, that's not an overstatement or hyperbole... I have to force-quit Logos at least once per study session.  Perhaps I have a low pain threshold, but when a program hangs for more than 60 seconds my train of thought is broken and it's usually faster simply to restart it.

HansK:
Personally, I do not find THIS a right way to address Bob and/or Logos with your concerns

As for using the forum to address Bob and/or Logos... what other voice do I have?  Perhaps Bob does use Logos for Mac daily during his personal devotional times, but I doubt it. If the CEO of a company experienced Logos for Mac for a week you can be sure there would be renewed focus and commitment to make good on promises.

But, granting that there may be a better way to present my concerns to Bob (I'm keen to know what those ways might be), it is still telling that Bob has not yet responded in any way to my concerns. 

If you had asked what my motivations have been, you might have heard that I have grown tired of "trying to make Logos work" (whether beta or stable) and was appealing to Bob, perhaps in a flawed manner, to reassure me (and others in the same boat) that he is committed to fixing Logos for Mac. But you didn't ask, and neither has Bob provided any assurance that Logos takes these issues (and customers, inelegant and flawed as my communication may be).

Truthfully, I had hoped that Bob would at least try the "two tests" and address this forum openly and honestly. Perhaps he still will.

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Jack Caviness | Forum Activity | Replied: Tue, Oct 25 2011 3:20 AM

Stuart Robertson:

As for using the forum to address Bob and/or Logos... what other voice do I have? <SNIP> But, granting that there may be a better way to present my concerns to Bob (I'm keen to know what those ways might be).

Bob has posted his personal email address multiple times bob@logos.com Perhaps you should try that approach rather than attempting to embarrass him on a public forum.

For the record, the tests you propose ran without incident using L4 Mac 4.3 SR-5 with Mac OS 10.5.8 on a 4.5 year old Mac Pro. I am not inclined to repeat on my MBP.

Posts 19308
Rosie Perera | Forum Activity | Replied: Tue, Oct 25 2011 3:21 AM

Stuart Robertson:
As for using the forum to address Bob and/or Logos... what other voice do I have? 

Bob publicizes his email address and welcomes direct contact from users: bob@logos.com.

Posts 156
Andrew Mitchell | Forum Activity | Replied: Tue, Oct 25 2011 3:36 AM

I can confirm the crash using 4.3 SR-5 on the mac. Let's hope for a fix in an upcoming serve release.

I must say though that generally I find logos on the mac to be very stable for my needs. But then again, I don't normally do word studies on "LORD", Too many verses for my little brain - hehe.

 

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