How Long Before Mac Developers Will be Allowed to Catch Up to Windows version?

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Posts 34
Darren Huckey | Forum Activity | Replied: Thu, Jan 26 2012 7:52 AM

Keep Smiling 4 Jesus :):

Please help me understand "we still have a long way to go" by elaborating what needs improvement  Curious what would be most helpful for you ?

Last month started thread => What's needed for better Bible Study ? Logos 4 Mac Feature Parity ?  From forum discussions this week, am aware of couple Logos 4.5 Mac users that want automatic hyperlink creation in Notes like PC has.

Logos User Voice suggestion => Improve Logos 4 Menu Responsiveness  For example, Logos 4.5 Search menu for choosing a collection has a noticeable lag from click until drop-down list available on Mac and PC

I probably need to start a list, but off the top of my head I can think of a few things:

  1. Performance
  2. Performance
  3. Performance - Even running on a 2.4GHz duo-core MacBook Pro with 6GB of RAM, this app is the worst performing app I have (and I'm even comparing it to my running Photoshop CS1, which is not an Intel-native app). It's just painful & frustrating to use.
  4. Another issue related to performance is search time. I would think the incredibly long indexing time (see below) would make this pretty snappy.

Then there are little things that are annoying, that should work, such as

  1. Being able to use COMMAND-~ to switch between windows and actually put the front window in focus, rather than having to activate it.
  2. Being able to click into a Bible passage field that is out of focus, rather than having to activate it and then re-click to enter the passage.

Other things are -

  1. Why does it take Logos an incredibly long amount of time to index my files when I add a 200 page book, when the Finder can index my entire 200GB harddrive in less time?
  2. Why is the File menu such a mess? Can't we make this like a standard MAC File menu? It would make more sense to have the "New" flyout to the doctype options (like many other Mac apps). All of your existing "files" (Notes, Passage Lists, Clippings, etc.) should be moved somewhere else, possibly under File > Open, and then be listed according to type. It's currently just a big clutter.

Hope that gives you some ideas of what I'm talking about.

Posts 34
Darren Huckey | Forum Activity | Replied: Thu, Jan 26 2012 11:29 AM

Another thing is why do we need to hit the Escape key when we're finished with a note, rather than clicking off, like we can do for a Prayer Request. There should be consistency.

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Jack Caviness | Forum Activity | Replied: Thu, Jan 26 2012 11:31 AM

Just to comment on part of your post

Darren Huckey:

I probably need to start a list, but off the top of my head I can think of a few things:

  1. Performance
  2. Performance

This has slowly been getting better, which is very noticeable for those of us who have been waiting for Logos Mac since 2005/6. Admittedly, it still has a ways to go however.

Darren Huckey:
I would think the incredibly long indexing time (see below) would make this pretty snappy.

Actually, the search itself is rather snappy. The bottleneck is with displaying results, and this area has show little progress.

Darren Huckey:
Why is the File menu such a mess?

That's part of the Windows legacy of L4. Users over there are not very fond of the File menu either.

In addition to what you have said, I would add that creating a custom Passage Guide could qualify as torture. When you add a Collection to the guide, the colored pizza spins, spins, and then spins some more. I finally gave up, fired up Parallels and completed the operation in L4 Win. Added 12 authors to one PG and 14 other collections to another. This was complete and synched in less time than it would have taken to add just 2 authors in L4 Mac.

Overall, L4 Mac is improving, but the pace of progress is agonizing. It was rather irritating to find that Tom Philpot was pulled off Mac development to work in Proclaim.

Posts 34
Darren Huckey | Forum Activity | Replied: Thu, Jan 26 2012 12:28 PM

And why can't you hit ESCAPE to escape out of a contextual menu???

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Keep Smiling 4 Jesus :) | Forum Activity | Replied: Thu, Jan 26 2012 1:39 PM

Darren Huckey:

I probably need to start a list, but off the top of my head I can think of a few things:

 

  1. Performance
  2. Performance
  3. Performance - Even running on a 2.4GHz duo-core MacBook Pro with 6GB of RAM, this app is the worst performing app I have (and I'm even comparing it to my running Photoshop CS1, which is not an Intel-native app). It's just painful & frustrating to use.
  4. Another issue related to performance is search time. I would think the incredibly long indexing time (see below) would make this pretty snappy.

Please elaborate what is painful & frustrating, especially repeatable actions.

Logos 4 Mac is usable on older hardware; albeit: need to choose what to do.  Wiki Mac Troubleshooting => Slow Performance includes many tips and links for Logos 4 speed usage ideas.  Personally have learned to have less open at same time, using several layouts (save and switch as appropriate).

Darren Huckey:

Then there are little things that are annoying, that should work, such as

 

  1. Being able to use COMMAND-~ to switch between windows and actually put the front window in focus, rather than having to activate it.

Apologies: using Logos 4.5a Beta 1 on 2.93 GHz i7, am unable to replicate.  Can use "Command-` (the Grave accent key--above Tab key on a US English keyboard layout)" to switch between open windows, the window in focus has red, yellow, and green circles in upper left corner.  On a MacBook Pro with 2.33 GHz Intel Core 2 Duo, noticed some lag time with keyboard shortcut to switch windows in Logos 4.5 SR-1

Darren Huckey:
Being able to click into a Bible passage field that is out of focus, rather than having to activate it and then re-click to enter the passage.

Apologies: newer, faster hardware is more responsive.  Unable to replicate using 2.93 GHz i7 iMac.

Darren Huckey:
Why does it take Logos an incredibly long amount of time to index my files when I add a 200 page book, when the Finder can index my entire 200GB harddrive in less time?

Intriguing question.  Related one is why does Logos 4.5 on Mac take lots longer to rebuild index than Logos 4.5 on PC => Logos 4.5 Beta 12 Library Indexing Speed Regression - Mac is Slow

Darren Huckey:
Why is the File menu such a mess?

Logos User Voice suggestion => Organize files popup by file type, alphabet and recently used has 154 votes.

Thread => Logos 4.5 Release Candidate available includes a Logos developer reply => http://community.logos.com/forums/p/43997/327507.aspx#327507

Bradley Grainger:
There will be one item on the File menu per Notes Document. Creating one per resource may be unwieldy (until the File Menu is improved).

- - - - - - -

Darren Huckey:
Hope that gives you some ideas of what I'm talking about.

Thanks; looking forward to more.

Darren Huckey:

Another thing is why do we need to hit the Escape key when we're finished with a note, rather than clicking off, like we can do for a Prayer Request. There should be consistency.

Thanks; personally living and learning.  Using escape key with Compact notes is nifty.

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Keep Smiling 4 Jesus :) | Forum Activity | Replied: Thu, Jan 26 2012 1:42 PM

Darren Huckey:

And why can't you hit ESCAPE to escape out of a contextual menu???

Yes Adding escape to close right click would be appreciated.

Likewise learned escape does not close contextual menu for shortcuts.

Keep Smiling Smile

Posts 1562
Ben | Forum Activity | Replied: Thu, Jan 26 2012 2:31 PM

I'd like to be able to hit escape to enter the command box. Currently, the "shortcut" (HA!) involves multiple keys and both hands. Doesn't make it easy to jump in and out of that box... like another program does.

"The whole modern world has divided itself into Conservatives and Progressives. The business of Progressives is to go on making mistakes. The business of Conservatives is to prevent mistakes from being corrected."- G.K. Chesterton

Posts 76
Greg M | Forum Activity | Replied: Thu, Jan 26 2012 3:24 PM

I understand that power users have some problems with the Mac version.

However, I only use a fraction of what this program has to offer on my MBA and I'm very pleased with the performance of it.  The only thing that I can think of to complain about is the lack of ability to remove individual books or sets of books from the drop down menus for bible and commentary selection.  I tried the prioritize option but it doesn't always work properly. I also wish that linking more than 2 windows didn't slow the program down so much.

Over all I love this program on the Mac because I don't have to use windows!!!

Posts 388
MJD | Forum Activity | Replied: Thu, Jan 26 2012 3:42 PM

Greg M:

I understand that power users have some problems with the Mac version.

However, I only use a fraction of what this program has to offer on my MBA and I'm very pleased with the performance of it.  The only thing that I can think of to complain about is the lack of ability to remove individual books or sets of books from the drop down menus for bible and commentary selection.  I tried the prioritize option but it doesn't always work properly. I also wish that linking more than 2 windows didn't slow the program down so much.

Over all I love this program on the Mac because I don't have to use windows!!!

Greg,

And if you play soitaire on your computer you could be happy with the performance of that too...  You are missing the point!

 

Posts 76
Greg M | Forum Activity | Replied: Thu, Jan 26 2012 4:53 PM

MJD:

Greg,

And if you play soitaire on your computer you could be happy with the performance of that too...  You are missing the point!

 

Now what kind of comment is that?  Of coarse I've read through some of your other comments and this one doesn't surprise me after reading those.  You insult or cut down those who don't view things as you do.  If you're so disappointed in the Mac version then go back to windows.

Most companies that have windows based programs rarely take the time or expense to develop a Mac version.  Most established windows programs that are ported over to Mac don't have the same functions available in the Mac version as they have in the windows version.

You miss my point!  I'm happy that Logos decided to make their wonderful program available to those of us that can't stand windows.  I also understand that the Mac version may never fully catch up to the windows version.  One problem is that Apple continues to change their OS without backwards compatibility and Microsoft doesn't (this is both good and bad).  It's looking like it may happen again if the rumors are right.

The Mac version of Logos 4 is a wonderful and VERY useful program just the way it is.  Can it be improved?  Of coarse and I look forward to the improvements as they come.  I'd much rather have a slightly watered down Mac version than a powerful windows version.  I strongly dislike when I have to use windows.  I do want equality between the Mac and Windows versions but I'm very happy with what I've got in the meantime.

Patience grasshopper or go back to the darkside (windows).

 

Posts 388
MJD | Forum Activity | Replied: Thu, Jan 26 2012 6:54 PM

No Greg, I don't agree.  Are you saying I am coarse, of course you are. 

I am glad you are enjoying your experience with your MBA.  There are many of us that use both Mac and Windows OS. 

Hence we can speak about the shortcomings from an INFORMED perspective.

 

Posts 1861
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Tom Philpot (Faithlife) | Forum Activity | Replied: Fri, Jan 27 2012 9:24 AM

Jack Caviness:
Overall, L4 Mac is improving, but the pace of progress is agonizing. It was rather irritating to find that Tom Philpot was pulled off Mac development to work in Proclaim.

Jack, I'm currently helping out with iOS now, but I can assure you that Martin, Grayson and the rest of the Mac devs are making the app better, faster than I ever could. And, Lord willing, I'll be working on the Logos app again at some point. I still watch the forums occasionally and keep up with what is happening in the app.

Mobile Development Team Lead

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Jack Caviness | Forum Activity | Replied: Fri, Jan 27 2012 11:45 AM

Tom Philpot:
Jack, I'm currently helping out with iOS now, but I can assure you that Martin, Grayson and the rest of the Mac devs are making the app better, faster than I ever could. And, Lord willing, I'll be working on the Logos app again at some point. I still watch the forums occasionally and keep up with what is happening in the app.

Still disappointed that Logos pulled anyone from developing L4 M to another project when L4 M is still anemic is some vital areas.

Posts 388
MJD | Forum Activity | Replied: Fri, Jan 27 2012 1:04 PM

Jack Caviness:

Tom Philpot:
Jack, I'm currently helping out with iOS now, but I can assure you that Martin, Grayson and the rest of the Mac devs are making the app better, faster than I ever could. And, Lord willing, I'll be working on the Logos app again at some point. I still watch the forums occasionally and keep up with what is happening in the app.

Still disappointed that Logos pulled anyone from developing L4 M to another project when L4 M is still anemic is some vital areas.

Tom - I am disappointed too, especially when there is a shortage of developers in the marketplace, and Logos admitted that they were struggling to find qualified developers.  Confused

Posts 68
Tom Philpot | Forum Activity | Replied: Fri, Jan 27 2012 10:40 PM

MJD:
Tom - I am disappointed too, especially when there is a shortage of developers in the marketplace, and Logos admitted that they were struggling to find qualified developers. 

We have a lot of projects going on, all of which need developers, not just Mac. Dave Dunkin (Mobile Lead) and I just moved to Mesa, AZ this week to start up an office and hire more developers. We've already hired one and we'll be continuing to interview and find others, in addition to coding.

 

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