No plans for SESB 4? How is it possible?

In August I pre-ordered Version 4.0 of the Stuttgart Electronic Study Bible from Amazon. The shipping date they gave, was 27 November. Various other bookshops also advertise it.

Now I have received an email from the German Bible Society:

*Available version of SESB is 3.0. There are no plans for SESB 4.0.*

Can a staff member of Logos on this forum shedd some light on this.

Find more posts tagged with

Comments

AH Bogaards

There is times in which the staff of Logos cannot and do not want to give an answer ... for people who are really interested in sciences an in using Logodss for scientific purposes

DMB

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/306307#Comment_306307

AH ... you're probably pretty frustrated and quite a number on Logos were really hoping for SESB4. But I very much suspect Logos staff were just as hopeful as you were.

Maybe this will encourage Logos development to bring L4 up to speed at least on SESB3 (vs Libronix).

AH Bogaards

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/306312#Comment_306312

I am very sure that there is many who are asking the same question: What is going on? Why stopped this wonderfull project? I do not understand! For me personal the SESB is the most important part of Logos 4. And nowhere I can get a answer about what is going on? Is this the end of SESB ...?

Paul N

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/306319#Comment_306319

your original post came in at 3:45 AM (LOGOS Time). It's currently 8:28 AM on the US 'left coast'. Maybe after a couple cups of coffee someone will have some insight. I'm afraid the SESB people would have the best answer however. ...bummed about this too.

NB.Mick

In August I pre-ordered Version 4.0 of the Stuttgart Electronic Study Bible from Amazon. The shipping date they gave, was 27 November. Various other bookshops also advertise it.

Same with me: I ordered the upgrade in August, my Amazon order still stands at "expect delivery":

I also have seen SESB 4 in their printed catalogue for Fall 2011.

Now I have received an email from the German Bible Society:

*Available version of SESB is 3.0. There are no plans for SESB 4.0.*

That's bad. If this is so, they should at least go forward and announce this on the SESB product page and in the German SESB forum.

Can a staff member of Logos on this forum shedd some light on this.

I doubt whether Logos can comment at all - as far as I can see, SESB is driven solely by the German and Netherlands Bible Societies. To this end, SESB is a resource bundle as any other.

However, SESB 3.0 makes use of the (pre-existing?) localization of Libronix, meaning it is in German language (or in Dutch) and I can imagine the German Bible Society wanting to publish this with a localized UI. On the other hand, IIRC they publish with other software that have only English UIs.

[:(]

Mark Smith

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/306331#Comment_306331

If this is so I am very disappointed.

Donnie Hale

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/306332#Comment_306332

If this is so I am very disappointed.

Me too. I saw that page on the German Amazon site just yesterday and figured it had to be close. I've been purposely not buying SESB 3.0 to avoid any kind of upgrade price (or full price) when 4.0 comes out. May have to re-think that, even w/ the SESB 3.0 limitations in Logos 4.

Donnie

Hans van den Herik

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/306334#Comment_306334

A week ago I recieved the following mail.

die SESB 4.0 wird in dieser Form gar nicht erscheinen.

Darüber wie ein möglicher Nachfolger der SESB 3.0 aussehen wird, ist momentan noch nicht beschlossen.

Daher kann ich Ihnen auch leider keine genaueren Informationen mitteilen.

There will be perhaps a successor, But it 's not clear when en how. There is discussion about that.

I hope Logos will update the WIVU database tot Logos 4.0!

Donnie Hale

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/306341#Comment_306341

A week ago I recieved the following mail.

die SESB 4.0 wird in dieser Form gar nicht erscheinen.

Darüber wie ein möglicher Nachfolger der SESB 3.0 aussehen wird, ist momentan noch nicht beschlossen.

Daher kann ich Ihnen auch leider keine genaueren Informationen mitteilen.

There will be perhaps a successor, But it 's not clear when en how. There is discussion about that.

I hope Logos will update the WIVU database tot Logos 4.0!

Can you (or someone) translate that for we non-German speakers? Thanks,

Donnie

JT (alabama24)

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/306351#Comment_306351

Can you (or someone) translate that for we non-German speakers?

An Apple translation:

the SESB 4,0 will not appear at all in this form.

Over it like a possible successor of the SESB 3,0 will look, is not decided yet at the moment.

Therefore I can also unfortunately indicate no more exact information to you.

Paul N

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/306353#Comment_306353

bravo alabama! Now if you could just find a Biblical hebrew translator...

Donnie Hale

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/306353#Comment_306353

An Apple translation:

the SESB 4,0 will not appear at all in this form.

Over it like a possible successor of the SESB 3,0 will look, is not decided yet at the moment.

Therefore I can also unfortunately indicate no more exact information to you.

Thank you. Guess there's no more reason for me to hesitate on getting SESB 3.0.

Donnie

NetworkGeek

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/306353#Comment_306353

Can you (or someone) translate that for we non-German speakers?

An Apple translation:

the SESB 4,0 will not appear at all in this form.

Over it like a possible successor of the SESB 3,0 will look, is not decided yet at the moment.

Therefore I can also unfortunately indicate no more exact information to you.

I am very disappointed. I seldom use SESB because of how it works in Logos 4.0 compared to 3.0. It would sure be nice to hear a definitive answer on their plans.

Here's a little better translation thanks to Google:

The SESB 4.0 will not appear in this form. It looks like a possible successor to the SESB 3.0 is currently not yet decided.
Therefore, I can offer you, unfortunately, no detailed information.

Hans van den Herik

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/306482#Comment_306482

Sorry for not translating my quote.

Die SESB 4.0 wird in dieser Form gar nicht erscheinen.

Darüber wie ein möglicher Nachfolger der SESB 3.0 aussehen wird, ist momentan noch nicht beschlossen.

Daher kann ich Ihnen auch leider keine genaueren Informationen mitteilen.

The translation of my quote is

The SESB 4.0 will not even be published it the same form (e.g. as was said on amazon.de and was the case with SESB 3.0)

At this momemt it's not decided how the possible successor of SESB will look like.

Therefore I can give you no futher information.

I'm quite disappointed with it!

Hans

Simon’s Brother

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/306574#Comment_306574

I'm quite disappointed with it!

Agreed this is disappointing news....

BillS

Maybe I should've bought SESB 3.0.... [:D]

fgh

Now I have received an email from the German Bible Society:

*Available version of SESB is 3.0. There are no plans for SESB 4.0.*

How can there suddenly be "no plans" for a v4.0 when they've advertised and taken preorders for it for months? Very weird and very disappointing.

It also makes me wonder if there's any connection between this and the lack of activity in the Swedish Libronix store. Last year they had a new item for sale each week during Advent. This year they're still asking me to buy at their "very low summer (!) prices". Plus they haven't produced a single new resource for at least a year and a half. We all know Logos doesn't want to sell through 3rd parties any more. Are they now trying to get rid of the international partnerships as well? Or are these two completely separate issues?

Perhaps another clue might be that this never turned up on Logos' prepub page, even though the Germans were setting dates. That seems to indicate that Logos were considerably less certain than the Germans that this would be released as/when planned.

NetworkGeek

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/318630#Comment_318630

This is very disappointing to me as well. I looked forward to a version 4.0 fully integrated into Logos 4.

They must be planning SOMETHING, product-wise, unless they are going to go out of business? But this is the German Bible Society, right? That doesn't sound likely. Maybe they are going to have their own electronic product or something.

SESB was a very good product and I believe they were well thought of in academic circles. This is really a shock to me, I am wondering if there is an inside story that someone knows.

NB.Mick

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/318630#Comment_318630

How can there suddenly be "no plans" for a v4.0 when they've advertised and taken preorders for it for months? Very weird and very disappointing.

I don't know and German Bible Society doesn't care to explain. They pulled SESB's facebook page I don't know when. They didn't update the SESB product homepage since many months (so this page never reflected that a SESB 4 was announced). They don't even post in the SESB forum anymore since I think February - I even considered marking a comment as inappropriate to force the forum admin to look into it. When Theolobias complained in a thread over there, they send an email around - devoid of any information. And they wished us a merry christmas via email (same).

I don't know when they compiled their Fall/Winter catalogue, where SESB 4.0 is announced, but I found meanwhile that as early as August IIRC they posted in facebook upon specific questions in other, active product pages that SESB 4.0 "will not come in fall as announced." This is a shame. I can't believe people accuse Logos of not treating customers fairly and not responding, when I think about this issue.

We all know Logos doesn't want to sell through 3rd parties any more. Are they now trying to get rid of the international partnerships as well?

I think that the German Bible Society is more like a publisher to Logos. So I can't believe Logos is the one sitting on the brake. Maybe they disagree over the "buy once read everywhere"licence model that Logos likes to have (and we, too!). But this shouldn't kill SESB 4 - they could licence as before. Bob posted regarding the localization of L4 that they will do those where the have strong partnerships and IIRC he put German second after Spanish before Portuguese. Right now we do have Spanish, Swedish and (since Beta 12) Portuguese - this means they do work with their international partners. No German UI around, though.

The publishing arm of the German Bible Society seems to be in bed with a Mac-platform bible software company - could it be these guys simply buy out the competition by contracting exclusive licences? I'm very frustrated. Since a number of people report they wrote to them and never got any real answer except "we won't deliver the product we took orders in for", I didn't write to them myself.

But since SESB was a jointly released product with the Netherlands Bible Society, maybe someone capable of Dutch could ask these people about it?

Hans van den Herik

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/318652#Comment_318652

The Dutch Bible Society has/gives no other information than the German Bible Society.

'There is no futher information at this moment', I was told on december 14th this year!

Hans

Keith Jones

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/318665#Comment_318665

I am debating on whether to purchase SESB 3.0. Could some of you please tell me how you use this program and is it totally compatible with Logos 4. Please show and tell me why I should purchase this program for my textual issues as opposed to other software platforms.

Philana Crouch

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/318705#Comment_318705

I am debating on whether to purchase SESB 3.0. Could some of you please tell me how you use this program and is it totally compatible with Logos 4. Please show and tell me why I should purchase this program for my textual issues as opposed to other software platforms.

This is not a program...they are resources that fully integrate into Logos 4. When you buy them you are adding those books to your library. I think you will find them very valuable, I was required to purchase the BHS + NA27 w/Apparatus for my Hebrew + Greek classes in seminary. Having them in Logos was awesome.

Blessings,

Philana

Mark Barnes

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/318708#Comment_318708

they are resources that fully integrate into Logos 4

Apart from WIVU syntax searching, that is. That only works with L3, not L4.

NetworkGeek

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/318750#Comment_318750

Apart from WIVU syntax searching, that is. That only works with L3, not L4.

Exactly correct Mark, that's the part I have been waiting for!

One slightly positive note: at this forum, the one response posted there, I think, says that they are looking into how a successor to SESB 3.0 can be realized. That gives room for hope!

Sehr geehrter Herr Zöllner,
leider wird die SESB 4.0 in der Form wie sie im Herbstkatalog angekündigt war nicht erscheinen.
Sie wurde daher schon vor einigen Monaten auf unbestimmte Zeit verschoben.
Derzeit führen wir Gespräche mit dem Entwickler inwiefern ein Nachfolger der SESB 3.0 realisiert werden kann.
Weitere Infos können wir Ihnen zu diesem Zeitpunkt leider noch nicht mitteilen.
Mit freundlichen Grüßen
Support Elektronische Publikationen Deutsche Bibelgesellschaft

NB.Mick

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/318904#Comment_318904

One slightly positive note: at this forum, the one response posted there, I think, says that they are looking into how a successor to SESB 3.0 can be realized. That gives room for hope!

Sehr geehrter Herr Zöllner,
leider wird die SESB 4.0 in der Form wie sie im Herbstkatalog angekündigt war nicht erscheinen.
Sie wurde daher schon vor einigen Monaten auf unbestimmte Zeit verschoben.
Derzeit führen wir Gespräche mit dem Entwickler inwiefern ein Nachfolger der SESB 3.0 realisiert werden kann.
Weitere Infos können wir Ihnen zu diesem Zeitpunkt leider noch nicht mitteilen.
Mit freundlichen Grüßen
Support Elektronische Publikationen Deutsche Bibelgesellsch

The German text says (roughly out of the head) :

"Unfortunately, the SESB 4.0 will not be released as announced in the Fall catalogue. Several month ago it was postponed to an undetermined date. Right now we talk with the developer how a successor to SESB 3.0 might be realized. We can not provide more information at this point in time."

Apart from confiming that they killed SESB 4.0 before they officially put it up for oders, they are now discussing with one developer what they can do about a successor to SESB 3 that will not be like SESB 4.

SESB 4 probably was to contain

localised GUI
WIVU search under L4
newer/more/updated resources (NIV2011, German BasisBibel, German NGÜ, other modern translations into European languages, updates to BHQ...)

The third bullet doesn't require a developer in the real sense, only licences and tagging. The first one would be something that Logos had even announced they would do. So I'm wondering about bullet 2 - but then they could have postponed this one functionality and relased nevertheless, rather putting in a few resources more.

What annoys me is that they should have told at least their forum users (after all, we provide something like the user support for them). They should have had an idea about how to bring a successor to SESB 3 onto the market when they decided that SESB 4 would not be it - or at lkeast not for the foreseeable future.

Matthew C Jones

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/318630#Comment_318630

How can there suddenly be "no plans" for a v4.0 when they've advertised and taken preorders for it for months? Very weird and very disappointing.

Disappointing? Yes. Weird? Not really that uncommon, unfortunately.

Logos has to tiptoe around the erudite publishers when working to bring their products to market. It took forever to convince Zondervan to Logos. Oxford Latin Dictionary was pulled as it neared completion. The Samaritan Pentateuch and Crum's Coptic Dictionary both disappeared. The Leiden Peshitta was getting ready to ship and slipped back into "development" stage.

I am not saying all of these were delayed or canceled by copyright holders. But I seriously doubt Logos chose to kill all the good stuff. Remember, the German Bible Society did pull the rug out from under Bible students worldwide when they claimed rights over the original text. If that doctrine holds up in your mind, I guess the British Museum owns the rights to the Dead Sea Scrolls because they were the first to publish them. But rather than figure out "Whodunnit" those who were holding out for SESB 4.0 should just go ahead and buy SESB 3.0

Stuttgart Electronic Study Bible (SESB), Version 3.0 for Logos Users (18 vols.) $179.95

Stuttgart Electronic Study Bible (SESB), Version 3.0 (52 vols.) $324.95

My guess is the Temple Guard won't feel so special if the common people have the scrolls.[6]

Philana Crouch

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/318961#Comment_318961

How can there suddenly be "no plans" for a v4.0 when they've advertised and taken preorders for it for months? Very weird and very disappointing.

Disappointing? Yes. Weird? Not really that uncommon, unfortunately.

Logos has to tiptoe around the erudite publishers when working to bring their products to market. It took forever to convince Zondervan to Logos. Oxford Latin Dictionary was pulled as it neared completion. The Samaritan Pentateuch and Crum's Coptic Dictionary both disappeared. The Leiden Peshitta was getting ready to ship and slipped back into "development" stage.

I am not saying all of these were delayed or canceled by copyright holders. But I seriously doubt Logos chose to kill all the good stuff. Remember, the German Bible Society did pull the rug out from under Bible students worldwide when they claimed rights over the original text. If that doctrine holds up in your mind, I guess the British Museum owns the rights to the Dead Sea Scrolls because they were the first to publish them. But rather than figure out "Whodunnit" those who were holding out for SESB 4.0 should just go ahead and buy SESB 3.0

Stuttgart Electronic Study Bible (SESB), Version 3.0 for Logos Users (18 vols.) $179.95

Stuttgart Electronic Study Bible (SESB), Version 3.0 (52 vols.) $324.95

My guess is the Temple Guard won't feel so special if the common people have the scrolls.

Not only that, but if you purchase 3.0 and 4.0 does come out on Logos, I would be bet there will be a reduced price for upgrading. This has happened before.