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This post has 38 Replies | 4 Followers

Posts 7
Joseph John | Forum Activity | Replied: Thu, Dec 1 2011 6:52 AM

Dave Dunkin:

This version has support for following Proclaim presentations. Proclaim is Logos' new church presentation software. The Logos app finds presentations by location, which requires the location permission. The presentation can contain contacts, which you can add from the app; this requires the contacts permission. The app does not read any contact data from your device.

 

Wouldn't coarse location suffice? (rather than fine location by GPS)?

Or is there a possibility to have the proclaim presentation added as a feature to a second version of the Logos app (that doesn't require these additional permissions)? Maybe one "Basic" (that gives users access to all the books they need etc), and one "Advanced" that adds additional (advanced) features like Proclaim etc?

From the reviews that I've read on market (and my thoughts as well), a lot of people don't (yet) want/need the Proclaim presentation feature.- and are concerned about the added risks. Personally, I'm holding off on updating the logos app for now.

 

Thanks!

Posts 1281
toughski | Forum Activity | Replied: Thu, Dec 1 2011 7:36 AM

Joseph John:
Or is there a possibility to have the proclaim presentation added as a feature to a second version of the Logos app (that doesn't require these additional permissions)? Maybe one "Basic" (that gives users access to all the books they need etc), and one "Advanced" that adds additional (advanced) features like Proclaim etc?

Why? It is kind of trying to engineer BBQ tasting pigs (so it would be easier to make ribs). Wouldn't it be more logical to build a plugin for Proclaim and leave Logos do its job and nothing else?

Posts 7
Joseph John | Forum Activity | Replied: Thu, Dec 1 2011 7:46 AM

Vladimir Lukyanov:

Why? It is kind of trying to engineer BBQ tasting pigs (so it would be easier to make ribs). Wouldn't it be more logical to build a plugin for Proclaim and leave Logos do its job and nothing else?

AFAIK, Apps on Android do not really support the concept of plugins (yet). If you know that it can be done, sure - that's a good idea as well (assuming that the base application doesn't need to have those permissions from the very beginning)

Posts 62
Geoff | Forum Activity | Replied: Thu, Dec 1 2011 4:34 PM

Just wanted to put my two cents in this conversation. I do not like having Logos tracking me or having the potential of accessing stuff in my phone that I do not want it to. I will not be updating until it is removed. There is too much potential for unintended consequences here for a very trivial privilege of a few people. Logos may not be a big target now but if nefarious people found out the potential the target could get a lot bigger because of easy pickings. I would not think that Logos HQ would be a big target yet they got broken in to and had their Mac's all stolen. It happens. This is not a fair comparison but it still happened. I think it is much better to leave a door closed than open up this type of vulnerability.

Thanks

Posts 247
BriM | Forum Activity | Replied: Fri, Dec 2 2011 11:25 AM

I'd like to add my voice to the concern.

Modern software is extremely complex and it's difficult to ensure that it doesn't have security loopholes. The trend toward agile development, with multiple releases per year, means that it is always in a state of flux and unintended loopholes can appear in previously secure software.

Given this, I think it's wise to adopt a 'least privilege' mentality - applications shouldn't have any privilege that isn't necessary for their correct operation. Access to my contacts and location isn't necessary for a Logos reading app. The functionality to integrate with Proclaim is logically a separate app and one that I don't need as I know of no church nearby that has Proclaim.

I'd prefer to see the Proclaim functionality in a separate app or plugin so that people have a choice of using the reader app without a possible security risk.

For now, it seems that my best option is to stick with 0.91.

Posts 27477
Forum MVP
Dave Hooton | Forum Activity | Replied: Fri, Dec 2 2011 1:16 PM

BriM:

I'd prefer to see the Proclaim functionality in a separate app or plugin so that people have a choice of using the reader app without a possible security risk.

For now, it seems that my best option is to stick with 0.91.

Or go into Logos 0.9.2 Settings and elect NOT to "Follow Presentations" .

And/or use Android Settings for Location and Security so that it cannot use any of the two methods to detect your location.

 

Dave
===

Windows 11 & Android 8

Posts 7
Joseph John | Forum Activity | Replied: Fri, Dec 2 2011 1:31 PM

Dave Hooton:

Or go into Logos 0.9.2 Settings and elect NOT to "Follow Presentations" .

And/or use Android Settings for Location and Security so that it cannot use any of the two methods to detect your location.

 

 

That unfortunately doesn't change the permissions of the Logos application... (if it gets exploited)

Posts 5
Brent E. Marshall | Forum Activity | Replied: Mon, Dec 12 2011 7:38 PM

Bob Pritchett:
I do appreciate your concern, and I wish there was a way we could have "add a contact only" functionality without full access to your contacts. (I'll ask the team if there's a way we can limit the access that way.)

Why does there need to be any contact or location-tracking functionality in Logos? My Logos is for reading and research, not contacting persons or location-based services. I am about to get my first Android device, and I was looking forward to using Logos on it until I saw the new permissions. Now I face an unpleasant dilemma.

Why can you not keep a version of the app without these extra features and permissions? One would think that one could keep the same code base for both the with and without versions of the app.

Bob Pritchett:
I think the concern about hacking is pretty remote, though -- someone would have to hack into Logos, modify the code for the Logos Android application, then upload it to the Android store, get you to update the app, and be unnoticed all along the way.

It seems like an unlikely attack vector, and one that would require a massive amount of Logos-internal knowledge. I'm not sure more than a few people here could do all those steps, let alone have access to the passwords we use for the app stores, etc.

Proclaiming this the only attack vector seems dangerously optimistic. Many companies and their customers have gotten burned badly where they thought the danger low and the passwords safe. Here, it all seems so unnecessary.

Please reconsider this.

 

Posts 5
Jon | Forum Activity | Replied: Sun, Jan 15 2012 11:19 AM

Adding my two cents, I am not pleased about Logos app or any app having any access to my contacts. I am in the search and test mode of Android bible apps and really don't like this, and not having offline word searching are two minus for me. Please rethink both Logos.

Posts 178
Sir Maru | Forum Activity | Replied: Tue, Jan 17 2012 12:29 PM

Graham Criddle:

Frank Sauer:
As for the location based Proclaim function, could be nice, I do see the need for a option to turn it off though. Not only for those with limited data, but also for battery consumption.

There is an option in Settings called "Follow Presentations" which allows you to control whether or not the app picks up Proclaim presentations.

I don't know if this stops it using the Location Services (and hence conserves battery life) but I would expect that it does.

Graham

Because of what you said, I turned off Presentations. However, I have no idea what that is. I use a Kindle Fire and have no contacts present there.  What are Presentations?  What is Proclaim?

 

Posts 27477
Forum MVP
Dave Hooton | Forum Activity | Replied: Tue, Jan 17 2012 1:18 PM

Sir Maru:
What are Presentations?  What is Proclaim?

See http://community.logos.com/forums/94.aspx

Dave
===

Windows 11 & Android 8

Posts 178
Sir Maru | Forum Activity | Replied: Tue, Jan 17 2012 1:57 PM

Dave Hooton:

Sir Maru:
What are Presentations?  What is Proclaim?

See http://community.logos.com/forums/94.aspx

I read many of the posts in that link and still have no idea what it is.  I presume, if I never installed it on my PC or Kindle Fire, it is NOT operating there.  I turned off my Presentations Preference in the Kindle Fire for Logos.

 

Posts 25491
Forum MVP
Graham Criddle | Forum Activity | Replied: Tue, Jan 17 2012 2:12 PM

Proclaim is new software Logos have developed to project songs, Bible passages etc during a church service.

It projects Presemtations and the mobile apps (iOS or android) have the ability to integrate with what is being presented. This is why you get asked if you want Presentations support in your kindle app.

Graham

Posts 27477
Forum MVP
Dave Hooton | Forum Activity | Replied: Tue, Jan 17 2012 2:15 PM

Sir Maru:
I turned off my Presentations Preference in the Kindle Fire for Logos.

That's to protect you from responding to a Proclaim "hot spot" irrespective of whether the app is installed on your device.

Dave
===

Windows 11 & Android 8

Posts 5
Mach10 | Forum Activity | Replied: Fri, Jan 20 2012 6:15 PM

I absolutely agree with you Brent.

Eliminate ALL unneccessary permissions, AT LEAST eliminate CONTACT read.

I'm sure you all know this, but here is what  the premission description says under Your personal information:

NEW: Read contact data

Allows an application to read all of the contact (address) data stored on your phone. Malicious applications can use this to send your data to onther people.

 

NEW: Write contact data

Allows an application to modify the contact (address) data stored on your phone. Malicious applications can use this to erase or modify your contact data

 

This is Your accounts:

NEW: Discover known accounts

Allows an application to get the list of accounts know by the phone.

 

Why does a Bible software need that???

Posts 3
John J. Franey | Forum Activity | Replied: Mon, Jun 4 2012 12:52 PM

Frank Sauer:
As for access to contacts - right now it may have something to do with the Proclaim feature, however eventually to have great features like sharing a verse or quote from a resource in your library, the Logos app will need access to our contacts. Without access to our contacts, the potential for a share feature to fully operate is eliminated

 

Users can use cut-n-paste, or you could implement share using social media api, or maybe your app could launch email and pre-populate (letting email app access the contacts).   Its true that the share feature you envision is fully impossible without access to contacts, but there are other ways to share.

Posts 261
LogosEmployee
Gabe Martin | Forum Activity | Replied: Wed, Jun 13 2012 3:39 PM

Yes, choosing not to follow presentations does stop the use of location services as well as eliminates the possibility the app will ever read or update your contacts. These actions are only ever performed when the user taps on a proclaim signal.

We put this in our app product description in Google Play to be as up front as possible:

ACCESS_FINE_LOCATION -- for finding nearby Proclaim presentations
READ_CONTACTS, WRITE_CONTACTS, GET_ACCOUNTS -- for adding contacts from a Proclaim presentation

Logos does not:
* Track or record your location
* Read specific contact information (only gets the name of your contacts group, only when adding a contact from a presentation)
* Modify any contact information without the user requesting adding a contact

Posts 247
BriM | Forum Activity | Replied: Sat, Jun 16 2012 2:10 PM

Gabe Martin:
Yes, choosing not to follow presentations does stop the use of location services as well as eliminates the possibility the app will ever read or update your contacts. These actions are only ever performed when the user taps on a proclaim signal.

Could we have a version of the App that doesn't contain this functionality and so doen't need the permissions? Then people could choose to download the version with these permissions only if they need to use them.

I'm currently stuck on v0.9.1 because of the security concerns with 0.9.2 and later.

Posts 4264
LogosEmployee
Kevin Byford (Faithlife) | Forum Activity | Replied: Tue, Jun 19 2012 10:43 PM

BriM:

Gabe Martin:
Yes, choosing not to follow presentations does stop the use of location services as well as eliminates the possibility the app will ever read or update your contacts. These actions are only ever performed when the user taps on a proclaim signal.

Could we have a version of the App that doesn't contain this functionality and so doen't need the permissions? Then people could choose to download the version with these permissions only if they need to use them.

I'm currently stuck on v0.9.1 because of the security concerns with 0.9.2 and later.

Hi BriM,

I will discuss your suggestion with our Development team again but I don't think this will happen.  As already mentioned, there is an option in the app to disable following Proclaim presentations, which means Proclaim signals will never appear on your device (which therefore means Logos will never read or update your contacts).  From your device there is also probably a way to disable location services within Android before installing Logos - although this might cripple other applications on your device that rely on it.  I apologize if Dave and Gabe's assurances are not good enough to satisfy your concerns.

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