long standing pre-pub orders

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ton verdam | Forum Activity | Posted: Sat, Dec 3 2011 1:22 PM

Why does it take soooo long for pre-pub orders to deliver.???

More and more I find myself buying from Amazon's KINDLE because it takes too long to wait untill LOGOS has its act together....

I have orders waiting almost a year... Does LOGOS have too many irons in the fire???

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Evan Boardman | Forum Activity | Replied: Sat, Dec 3 2011 1:27 PM

Not all Pre-pubs make it to publication. Some make it if enough people order it. It all depends on the demand.

                                                                       Hope that reply is helpful.

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JT (alabama24) | Forum Activity | Replied: Sat, Dec 3 2011 1:41 PM

ton verdam:
Why does it take soooo long for pre-pub orders to deliver.???

ton verdam:
More and more I find myself buying from Amazon's KINDLE because it takes too long to wait untill LOGOS has its act together....

Ton - A couple of thoughts:

  1. Pre-Pub's may take a while to gather interest. If there is a resource you are interested in seeing go into publication, let us know in the forums! You might get enough interest to get it over the hump!
  2. Logos resources cannot be compared to Kindle ones. Kindle books are simple eBook's; Logos resources are "value added" and it takes employees time to get them ready for sale. A better comparison is Kindle vs. Vyrso books. (Vyrso is the new "trade" eBook store from Logos). 

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Paul N | Forum Activity | Replied: Sat, Dec 3 2011 1:47 PM

ton verdam:

Why does it take soooo long for pre-pub orders to deliver.???

guys I think Ton is referring to those that are already in production (under development).  I'm curious about this too...

I sure would like to see MacArthur's commentary finally get through

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Matthew C Jones | Forum Activity | Replied: Sat, Dec 3 2011 2:06 PM

ton verdam:
Why does it take soooo long for pre-pub orders to deliver.???
Most titles listed in the Pre-Pub program are in a "gathering interest" status. This means Logos is asking how many users are interested in getting this resource. Once the numbers of pre-orders are entered they proceed to an "under development" status and production begins. The resource could require special processing through an original languages team or specific individual like Stephen Runge or Mike Heisler. In the old days some were farmed out on contract. I believe all projects are done in-house at Logos now.

The Pre-Pub program is intended to be self supporting so a product will not enter development until the requisite number of orders are placed. There have even been a few times a Pre-Pub will get scrubbed. The Oxford Latin Dictionary was on the verge of shipping when Oxford had a change of command and the new guy withdrew the resource from publication.

What seems like an eternity will soon come to pass. It took years to get the Harvard Classics. Zondervan, and Barnes Notes.

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George Somsel | Forum Activity | Replied: Sat, Dec 3 2011 2:40 PM

ton verdam:

Why does it take soooo long for pre-pub orders to deliver.???

More and more I find myself buying from Amazon's KINDLE because it takes too long to wait untill LOGOS has its act together....

I have orders waiting almost a year... Does LOGOS have too many irons in the fire???

It doesn't always take a long time.  In fact, sometimes they are ready all too quickly for my checking account.  Confused

george
gfsomsel

יְמֵי־שְׁנוֹתֵינוּ בָהֶם שִׁבְעִים שָׁנָה וְאִם בִּגְבוּרֹת שְׁמוֹנִים שָׁנָה וְרָהְבָּם עָמָל וָאָוֶן

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JT (alabama24) | Forum Activity | Replied: Sat, Dec 3 2011 2:51 PM

George Somsel:
It doesn't always take a long time.

Of course, some resources will be more time intensive to get ready than others will be.

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Matthew C Jones | Forum Activity | Replied: Sat, Dec 3 2011 3:50 PM

George Somsel:
It doesn't always take a long time.  In fact, sometimes they are ready all too quickly for my checking account.  Confused

Didn't the Classic Commentaries and Studies on Genesis go from Community Pricing to shipping in about three weeks time?

Also some Pre-Pubs have a status as "under development" the day that are listed. I think there must be a contract with certain institutions that underwrites the whole project ti get it produced as soon as possible. The Berean School of the Bible textbooks all shipped in about one month from listing day.

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Dan Francis | Forum Activity | Replied: Sat, Dec 3 2011 5:03 PM

One other thing to add is the massive size of some works. Tagging them and preparing them can be a daunting task I am sure. I am very hopeful that the New Interpreter's Bible will be under contact soon, but even if they start off with the digital text it will be months to get even thing done, when dozens of older volumes have to be scanned and compared to other copies you are looking at a task i would't envy. Also with Amazon I would suspect 99% of their books drive to them as electronic text, thereby just needing to place in chapter markers and footnotes. Can Logos do it faster, likely yes if you are willing to pay a lot more, would I like it faster yes, but patience  is a virtue..and something many of us (myself most definitely included) need to learn. And we can be very thankful we have the books we do, when books were hand made 12 books were considered a massive library. One english clergy in the middle ages had to leave a ransom of several hundred pieces of silver to ensure he would return with his i believe it was 11 books. Now many of us carry thousands of the most amazing books in our phone. Praise be to God for the times we live in, may each of us always allow the Spirit to guide us to truth and love.

-Dan

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DMB | Forum Activity | Replied: Sat, Dec 3 2011 6:23 PM

Have to admit we collectively can come up with a lot of reasons for what appears to be obvious.

It's far more easy to remember the Logos Dictionary:

   In Development:  'you've thought about for a while, now we'll think about it a while'.

Logos has to be absolutely sure about each produced resource being fully funded.

Often, after only 4 or 5 years waiting, people decide they don't want it.  You never can be too careful.

"God will save his fallen angels and their broken wings He'll mend."

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Matthew C Jones | Forum Activity | Replied: Sat, Dec 3 2011 10:02 PM

Denise Barnhart:
Logos Dictionary:

Fun humor to put a smile on my face as I retire for the night. Sleep

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Josh | Forum Activity | Replied: Sun, Dec 4 2011 12:07 AM

Super Tramp:

Didn't the Classic Commentaries and Studies on Genesis go from Community Pricing to shipping in about three weeks time?

 

 

Yes. And this was a massive 22 volume collection with many resources over 500 and 400 pages long!!

I am confused on how Logos was able to pump this collection out fast but sometimes takes a couple years to release just a single volume.

For example: I pre-ordered "Paul: His Life and Teaching" http://www.logos.com/product/5989/paul-his-life-and-teaching on May 1, 2010. It has been under development for over a year now!!!

 

What is the deal Logos?? Please give us a reasonable answer!! Stop being silent!!

 

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Edwin Bowden | Forum Activity | Replied: Sun, Dec 4 2011 6:28 AM

Joshua Garcia:

For example: I pre-ordered "Paul: His Life and Teaching" http://www.logos.com/product/5989/paul-his-life-and-teaching on May 1, 2010. It has been under development for over a year now!!!

Your example was one of those newer Baker titles that did not have a lower pre-pub price to help drive orders. Most of those titles sat on the pre-pub list waiting for customers to place their orders. I don't know when this title finally got enough orders to begin work on development.

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Matthew C Jones | Forum Activity | Replied: Sun, Dec 4 2011 7:58 AM

Joshua Garcia:
Super Tramp:
Didn't the Classic Commentaries and Studies on Genesis go from Community Pricing to shipping in about three weeks time?
  Yes. And this was a massive 22 volume collection with many resources over 500 and 400 pages long!! I am confused on how Logos was able to pump this collection out fast but sometimes takes a couple years to release just a single volume. For example: I pre-ordered "Paul: His Life and Teaching" http://www.logos.com/product/5989/paul-his-life-and-teaching on May 1, 2010. It has been under development for over a year now!!!

 

What is the deal Logos?? Please give us a reasonable answer!! Stop being silent!!  

As Edwin already posted, This title is from Baker Academic. When Zondervan was finally convinced to bring their products into Logos, they decided to set their prices on the high side. This resulted in a few other publishers experimenting with fixed prices. Baker Academic chose to go with fixing their Pre-Pub price at their Retail price. This formula assured Baker's sales would be S-L-O-W.  It undermines the incentive to place early orders. (If you can only buy one book today, why buy a Baker Book at retail when you can buy another that is presently discounted? You can always let other customers "carry the water" for Baker titles and enjoy the same price whenever you get around to ordering.)

I am very thankful to Baker Academic for three things:

  1. Baker Academic lists their titles individually so you can buy just the title you need without paying 5x the rate.
  2. Baker Academic has reasonable retail pricing -- remember these have quality academic content.
  3. Baker Academic titles are so interesting! When you peruse the whole list you will find many you will want.

If Baker would offer even a slight discount on their Pre-Pub titles, I believe it would get the ball rolling. Some buyers refuse to pay retail no matter how low it is.

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DMB | Forum Activity | Replied: Sun, Dec 4 2011 8:23 AM

Even though some publishers are going with pre-pubs at retail, by ordering early, you get it first before everyone else.

It is true, due to good inventory control, Logos seems to always order just enough for everyone, though.

I notice with Amazon, I ordered early and then they ran out. Goodness, was I thankful to be the 'early-bird'.

 

 

 

 

[jk]

"God will save his fallen angels and their broken wings He'll mend."

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DAL | Forum Activity | Replied: Sun, Dec 4 2011 9:56 AM

I certainly wouldn't mind for BECNT upgrade to be ready sometime in February or March of 2012, that'll give me some time to save some money and get the upgrade.  Holidays and other personal expenses can really ruin it for you when it comes to placing prepub orders.  Ah and I also wouldn't mind for my 3 community pricing items to be ready by that time too...Wink

Smile

 

DA

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Lynden Williams | Forum Activity | Replied: Sun, Dec 4 2011 10:10 AM

Another factor to consider, some books require extensive tagging.

Lynden Williams Communications https://www.lyndenwilliams.net 

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Josh | Forum Activity | Replied: Sun, Dec 4 2011 6:56 PM

Super Tramp:

Joshua Garcia:
Super Tramp:
Didn't the Classic Commentaries and Studies on Genesis go from Community Pricing to shipping in about three weeks time?
  Yes. And this was a massive 22 volume collection with many resources over 500 and 400 pages long!! I am confused on how Logos was able to pump this collection out fast but sometimes takes a couple years to release just a single volume. For example: I pre-ordered "Paul: His Life and Teaching" http://www.logos.com/product/5989/paul-his-life-and-teaching on May 1, 2010. It has been under development for over a year now!!!

 

What is the deal Logos?? Please give us a reasonable answer!! Stop being silent!!  

As Edwin already posted, This title is from Baker Academic. When Zondervan was finally convinced to bring their products into Logos, they decided to set their prices on the high side. This resulted in a few other publishers experimenting with fixed prices. Baker Academic chose to go with fixing their Pre-Pub price at their Retail price. This formula assured Baker's sales would be S-L-O-W.  It undermines the incentive to place early orders. (If you can only buy one book today, why buy a Baker Book at retail when you can buy another that is presently discounted? You can always let other customers "carry the water" for Baker titles and enjoy the same price whenever you get around to ordering.)

I am very thankful to Baker Academic for three things:

  1. Baker Academic lists their titles individually so you can buy just the title you need without paying 5x the rate.
  2. Baker Academic has reasonable retail pricing -- remember these have quality academic content.
  3. Baker Academic titles are so interesting! When you peruse the whole list you will find many you will want.

If Baker would offer even a slight discount on their Pre-Pub titles, I believe it would get the ball rolling. Some buyers refuse to pay retail no matter how low it is.

How does this explain resources like the High Definition Commentay on Romans? This is produce by Logos themselves. I have waited well over a year for this one too.

http://www.logos.com/product/7367/high-definition-commentary-romans

 

Posts 1517
Josh | Forum Activity | Replied: Sun, Dec 4 2011 7:00 PM

Lynden Williams:

Another factor to consider, some books require extensive tagging.

While this is true, I do not believe this is the issue. The Classic Commentaries on Genesis was 22 volumes and was tagged like any other Logos resource but was out of pre-pub in less than three weeks.

 

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NB.Mick | Forum Activity | Replied: Mon, Dec 5 2011 4:01 AM

Joshua Garcia:

Lynden Williams:

Another factor to consider, some books require extensive tagging.

While this is true, I do not believe this is the issue. The Classic Commentaries on Genesis was 22 volumes and was tagged like any other Logos resource but was out of pre-pub in less than three weeks.

This is the first in the ongoing series of Classic Commentaries that Logos pumps through CP. Thus it obviously received a "strategic importance" marker internally and I'm sure Logos worked on this series before the CP crossed the line.

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