Bible vs Leaders vs Scholar

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Posts 33
Jonathan Cousins | Forum Activity | Posted: Thu, Dec 15 2011 1:33 PM

Hi,

For normal bible study:

  • Reading the bible
  • Searching the bible
  • Comparing different versions of the bible
  • Reading commentaries
  • Using dictionaries
  • Reverse interlinear

Is it possible to do all those things in the Bible Base Package?

 

 

Posts 8666
TCBlack | Forum Activity | Replied: Thu, Dec 15 2011 1:37 PM

All of those features are available in each level of package.  The breadth of study capacity available will increase commensurate with the number of resources in each category.

On this page http://www.logos.com/basepackages  You can click on each level and quickly see how many (interlinear) bibles, commentaries, dictionaries and so forth are available in each package.

Hmm Sarcasm is my love language. Obviously I love you. 

Posts 450
Alexander | Forum Activity | Replied: Thu, Dec 15 2011 1:46 PM

Others have said it, and as someone who just bought leaders and realized it was a mistake, it's true: buy the best package you can at the time you go into the software. I really think, personally, that the top end for most people is Scholars Gold. I would not buy anything else than Languages if I were you. I bought leaders and was disappointed. Sales was kind enough to give me he same discount I received prior to bump up to Scholars. I am now pleased with the results I get from the software. I'd sugges minimum of Scholars if you can afford it - if not Languages.

Posts 8666
TCBlack | Forum Activity | Replied: Thu, Dec 15 2011 1:49 PM

Good point Alexander.  

Hmm Sarcasm is my love language. Obviously I love you. 

Posts 5637
Todd Phillips | Forum Activity | Replied: Thu, Dec 15 2011 1:57 PM

Alexander Longacre:
I'd sugges minimum of Scholars if you can afford it - if not Languages.

Yes Scholars is the minimum package to have all the features enabled.

From what I hear, though, the best bang for the buck is to buy Original Languages and then immediately upgrade it to Scholars (since OL has resources that Scholars doesn't).

 

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Posts 439
Mark Stevens | Forum Activity | Replied: Thu, Dec 15 2011 2:14 PM

I have Scholars and then instead of upgrading further I have added the volumes I wanted. I love it and do all the tasks you've listed. I think people are right, leaders is a bit of a waste of time considering what you might want out of the product.

Posts 120
Steve Robinson | Forum Activity | Replied: Thu, Dec 15 2011 2:33 PM

Jonathan Cousins:
For normal bible study

As a layperson wanting to improve my personal Bible study time, I purchased the Bible Study Library and found it to be a great place to start. It had a good core of resources that let me do each of the tasks your described better and faster.

A few years later, when I actually joined a church ministry team in a staff position, I upgraded to the Leader's Library for a fairly minimal cost given all the extra resources in the package, (mostly pastoral how-tos and best practices).

I have not upgraded to the Scholars Library for two primary reasons: 1) Most of the new resources added to my library through the upgrade are in the language tools category that I would not be able to take good advantage of and 2) I have acquired most of the additional non-language resources (i.e. sermon outlines) through add-on purchases.

In advance response to those who might advocate for the advantage of any person studying the Bible to learn the original languages, while I concur in theory, the same "learning disability" that has made learning languages extremely difficult has also made me appreciate the ability to experience some of the built-in word study tools (i.e. reverse interliniar) in Logos all the more.

My 3 cents.

Steve R.

Posts 142
Michael Sullivan | Forum Activity | Replied: Thu, Dec 15 2011 2:48 PM

I can attest to the buying the "OL" package and upgrading it to "Scholars." (This is the path I took)  You can not do the reverse.  If you buy OL and upgrade it to scholars you will probably pay about $50 more than buying Scholars outright, but you get a LOT more resources for that $50 - some of which are only found in the Gold package.  I highly recommend this path.

Posts 2861
mab | Forum Activity | Replied: Thu, Dec 15 2011 2:52 PM

Scholar is the all-purpose starting block for Logos. It doesn't take long for most people to realize how Logos transforms your study. 

The mind of man is the mill of God, not to grind chaff, but wheat. Thomas Manton | Study hard, for the well is deep, and our brains are shallow. Richard Baxter

Posts 142
Michael Sullivan | Forum Activity | Replied: Thu, Dec 15 2011 2:53 PM

If you are not into languages, I would suggest calling Logos and asking if you can upgrade from "Bible" and "Leader" to "OL" and later "Scholars."  If they allow an upgrade to "OL" from "Bible" or "Leaders," I would suggest just getting one of those packages to start. 

If, at a later date, you want to go to Scholars, make sure you upgrade to OL first, and then Scholars.  Otherwise if the smaller base package serves your needs, stick with that.

Posts 383
Stephen Thorp | Forum Activity | Replied: Thu, Dec 15 2011 3:05 PM

Mark Stevens:
I think people are right, leaders is a bit of a waste of time considering what you might want out of the product.

With all due respect to Mark whose comments are usually very helpful, concise and well considered, on this occasion he's completely 'barking'! The Leader's package is a fine product for all those in full time ministry who do not have the time or the skills to dig deep into the original languages. If you take away the dedicated language tools, then there isn't a great deal of difference between the two, but the additional cost on the other hand is considerable. I'm not deminishing language study for one moment, but for some it might actually be a better investment to concentrate on additional resources such as dictionaries and commentaries (where the original languages are explained for you) than to purchase a more premium product on the pretence that you might use its bewildering language tools one day. No offence meant Mark! Stick out tongue Smile

Posts 12635
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NB.Mick | Forum Activity | Replied: Fri, Dec 16 2011 1:04 AM

Michael Sullivan:

If you are not into languages, I would suggest calling Logos and asking if you can upgrade from "Bible" and "Leader" to "OL" and later "Scholars."  If they allow an upgrade to "OL" from "Bible" or "Leaders," I would suggest just getting one of those packages to start. 

If, at a later date, you want to go to Scholars, make sure you upgrade to OL first, and then Scholars.  Otherwise if the smaller base package serves your needs, stick with that.

Up till now I understood the upgrade path to be like a turned-around Y , where you can upgrade to Scholars either via Bible Study and Leaders or from OL. But maybe this has changed.

Running Logos 9 latest (beta) version on Win 10

Posts 1523
Josh | Forum Activity | Replied: Fri, Dec 16 2011 1:24 AM

The only base packages I recommend are Silver and Platinum - I would skip Gold altogether if upgrading.

Posts 33
Jonathan Cousins | Forum Activity | Replied: Fri, Dec 16 2011 2:29 AM

Joshua Garcia:

The only base packages I recommend are Silver and Platinum - I would skip Gold altogether if upgrading.

Hi Joshua,

Can you qualify your statement? You obviously hold this as a personal view, but can you say what type of study you do and tell us why Silver and Platinum are essential to you.

Also can you provide some guidance based on my original description of bible study in the first post.

Thanks

 

Posts 1523
Josh | Forum Activity | Replied: Fri, Dec 16 2011 3:13 AM

Jonathan Cousins:

Joshua Garcia:

The only base packages I recommend are Silver and Platinum - I would skip Gold altogether if upgrading.

Hi Joshua,

Can you qualify your statement? You obviously hold this as a personal view, but can you say what type of study you do and tell us why Silver and Platinum are essential to you.

Also can you provide some guidance based on my original description of bible study in the first post.

Thanks

 

 

From your OP I'm guessing you're looking at the Bible Study base package. This package offers a lot, but lacks what I use the most. First off, it lacks good commentaries. Only when you venture into Silver and above do you start getting good commentary sets. For instance, Silver provides the New American Commentary set. This set alone sells for 500 dollars on Logos. With Platinum things start to look even better with Pillar and the New International Greek New Testament. Both together would set you back $1,100 outside a base package. You also get good original language tools, such as good lexicons (which the Bible Study package does not have).

Think about this: the price of the three commentary sets above equals the price for the Platinum base package. But with the Platinum base package you get over 1,200 more resources, including BDAG!

Investment wise, it is incredibly smart to go big with your ininitial base package purchase. You'll be thanking yourself later. If you buy now before the end of the year you'll also get 15% off this package plus loads of Logos credit.

 

Posts 15805
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Keep Smiling 4 Jesus :) | Forum Activity | Replied: Fri, Dec 16 2011 3:40 AM

Joshua Garcia:

Jonathan Cousins:

Joshua Garcia:

The only base packages I recommend are Silver and Platinum - I would skip Gold altogether if upgrading.

Hi Joshua,

Can you qualify your statement? You obviously hold this as a personal view, but can you say what type of study you do and tell us why Silver and Platinum are essential to you.

Also can you provide some guidance based on my original description of bible study in the first post.

Thanks

 

 

From your OP I'm guessing you're looking at the Bible Study base package. This package offers a lot, but lacks what I use the most. First off, it lacks good commentaries. Only when you venture into Silver and above do you start getting good commentary sets. For instance, Silver provides the New American Commentary set. This set alone sells for 500 dollars on Logos. With Platinum things start to look even better with Pillar and the New International Greek New Testament. Both together would set you back $1,100 outside a base package. You also get good original language tools, such as good lexicons (which the Bible Study package does not have).

Think about this: the price of the three commentary sets above equals the price for the Platinum base package. But with the Platinum base package you get over 1,200 more resources, including BDAG!

Investment wise, it is incredibly smart to go big with your ininitial base package purchase. You'll be thanking yourself later. If you buy now before the end of the year you'll also get 15% off this package plus loads of Logos credit.

 

Scholar's Gold includes United Bible Society (UBS) Handbook Series that regularly sell for $ 799.95 that do not need original language mastery to appreciate translation and cross cultural insights.

Wiki has Logos Resource Reviews => UBS New Testament Handbook Series and => UBS Old Testament Handbook Series 

Keep Smiling Smile

Posts 13428
Mark Barnes | Forum Activity | Replied: Fri, Dec 16 2011 5:47 AM

I was recently asked to provide a Logos buyers guide for students at our local seminary. So the comments below are geared towards seminary students, but they might be helpful to you as well.

Home Library

Includes only the most basic tools and resources, mainly Bibles and devotionals. No reverse interlinears. No NIV.

Verdict: Not recommended for academic use or sermon preparation.

Bible Study Library

Includes a few Bibles (including NIV) more reverse interlinears, maps and images, and a few dictionaries, commentaries and theologies. Tools include parallel passages and timelines, but only limited Bible Word Study, Passage Guide and Exegetical Guide functionality. Very light on lexicons. Note that the NIV included with Logos is the new 2011 version. The original NIV costs extra.

Verdict: The minimum you should consider (but only if you're not working with the original languages).

Leaders' Library

Adds a few dozen practical preaching/ministry books to the Bible Study Library.

Verdict: Most of the books have an American emphasis, and are probably not worth the extra for UK students.

Original Languages Library

Adds original language texts/tools at the expense of secondary literature. Fewer English Bibles (e.g. no NIV or NKJV), no commentaries or devotionals, few dictionaries and none of the Leader's Library extras. But you get two Hebrew Bibles (plus an interlinear), the Septuagint (including Hebrew/Greek interlinear), and several Greek New Testaments. All of these are fully parsed. You also get several other ancient non-biblical texts (including Charles' Apocrypha and Pseudepigrapha), several Greek/Hebrew grammars and lexicons (including Louw-Nida and TDNT), Metzger's Textual Commentary. Finally, there's full access to the Bible Word Study, Exegetical Guide and Passage Guide, plus Syntax Searching and Sentence Diagramming.

Verdict: An excellent choice for working with the original languages - but it lacks theological works and, more importantly, commentaries. (Note: You can upgrade from Original Languages, to not to it.)

Scholar's Library

Quite a price jump. Basically you get all of Leader's Library and most of Original Languages (the Hebrew interlinear, Syriac and ANE texts are missing, as are Metzger's Textual Commentary and a few grammars and lexicons), plus a Greek/English interlinear Septuagint, and several practical preaching/ministry books. You also get the NT Louw-Nida coding, and Greek pronunciation tools.

Verdict: Doesn't offer quite the value of Bible Study or Original Languages, but worth it if you need lots of English Bibles in addition to the original language tools.

Scholar's Library (Silver)

Another big jump. Everything in Scholar's, plus several additions. The most valuable are the 37 volumes of the Church Fathers, plus many commentaries: Holman NT Commentary (12 volumes: simple but OK), Keil & Delitzsch OT (10 vols: old but good, fairly technical), New American Commentary (37 vols: generally good; similar level to Tyndale series but more detailed), the Pulpit Commentary (77 vols: dated but sometimes useful). You also get the Concise OED, an NT interlinear, an Analytical Greek Lexicon and a few more practical preaching books and Lightfoot's Apostolic Fathers in Greek and English. Most of the Original Language resources that were missing from Scholar's are also added back in.

Verdict: Pricey, but worth the jump (if you can afford it) because of the Church Fathers, Keil & Delitzsch and the NAC.

Scholar's Library (Gold)

Everything in Silver plus some extra goodies. The highlight is 13 volumes of the New International Greek Testament Commentary (technical, but very good). Also usefully included is the Good News Bible, an OT interlinear, Tischendorf's NT, the complete set of UBS Handbooks (verse-by-verse guides to help you translate the Bible), the Exegetical Dictionary of the NT (similar to TDNT, but shorter and more recent), Carl Henry's 6-volume God, Revelation and Authority, and the rest of the missing items from Original Languages. Less useful, but also included, is the 4-volume Encyclopaedia of Christianity and the 91-volume Semeia journal.

Verdict: The 13 volume NIGTC alone justifies the upgrade from Silver. It's just as well it does though, as the other additions are not as attractive.

Scholar's Library (Platinum)

Everything in Gold, plus some useful extras, mostly commentaries. The highlights are certainly the 10 volumes of Pillar Commentaries (which though still incomplete, is shaping up to being one of the best technical NT sets) and BDAG (A Greek-English Lexicon of the New Testament and Other Early Christian Literature) which at more than 1,100 pages is the definitive Greek lexicon. Also included are The Believers' Church Bible Commentary (19 volumes, expository, moderately useful), Charles Simeon's Horae Homileticae (21 vols., old and rather sermonic, but sometimes insightful), Classic Commentaries on the Greek New Testament (14 vols., mainly Westcott and Lightfoot, and worth consulting), and a few others. Also useful is Schürer's 5-volume History of the Jewish People in the Time of Jesus Christ, 40 volumes from A.W. Pink, 14 volumes from G. C. Berkouwer, 15 volumes from R. A. Torrey and 3 volumes (61 works) of John Bunyan, and a few dozen other books.

Verdict: A very good value upgrade from Gold.  Worthwhile for Pillar and BDAG alone, and Berkouwer is also well worth reading. And if you're a fan of Charles Simeon, Schürer, Pink, Torrey or Bunyan then it's even better value!

Portfolio

As you'd expect it has very many additions to Platinum, including several commentary sets (though none are outstanding), more than 20 volumes useful for studying Judaism and the DSS, and no less than 12 to help you with your Ugaritic! It also adds two excellent lexicons: HALOT (perhaps the definitive OT lexicon, though it's not that easy to understand), and Liddell-Scott (Greek). The International Standard Bible Encyclopaedia is also useful, Chafer's 8-volume Systematic Theology is comprehensive, and there are more than 100 other books.

Verdict: It's hard to see value in the jump from Platinum - although if you need the academic resources included, and can also make use of the non-academic ones, it might just be worthwhile. But personally, if I had Platinum and a lot of money burning a hole in my pocket, I'd buy BST, Tyndale, Calvin, NICOT/NICNT, Anchor Yale Bible Dictionary and the IVP Reference collection instead.

This is my personal Faithlife account. On 1 March 2022, I started working for Faithlife, and have a new 'official' user account. Posts on this account shouldn't be taken as official Faithlife views!

Posts 1875
Paul-C | Forum Activity | Replied: Fri, Dec 16 2011 6:00 AM

Mark, thanks for the very helpful summary.  I was wondering whether, if at some future point, I should upgrade from Platinum to Portfolio.  However, your personal views confirmed my own suspicions that, for me personally at least, I'd be better adding those specific resources you mentioned to my library (which I'd had my eye on), than upgrading to the top-level base package.

Posts 33
Jonathan Cousins | Forum Activity | Replied: Sat, Dec 17 2011 6:38 AM

Thanks everyone, I am still debating whether to move from Scholars down to Bible package or not.

I appreciate all your responses. Many of you have express how and why a certain package is of great value to you, however I was wondering if putting aside your own uses for your particular package, can you objectively say if Bible package is good enough for private bible study, not involving languages other than English?

Would the money be better spent, buying Bible package and using the $250 extra to buy a certain commentary set etc

Thanks

 

Posts 5637
Todd Phillips | Forum Activity | Replied: Sat, Dec 17 2011 9:29 AM

Jonathan Cousins:

Thanks everyone, I am still debating whether to move from Scholars down to Bible package or not.

I appreciate all your responses. Many of you have express how and why a certain package is of great value to you, however I was wondering if putting aside your own uses for your particular package, can you objectively say if Bible package is good enough for private bible study, not involving languages other than English?

Would the money be better spent, buying Bible package and using the $250 extra to buy a certain commentary set etc

Thanks

I think you would greatly benefit from buying the Bible Study Library and the Tyndale Commentaries (which cover every book of the bible).  If you shop around you could probably find the Tyndale set for cheaper, and you would have money to put towards something else too, like maybe ISBE.

 

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