Choices: NIVAC or N.T. Wright collection

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This post has 24 Replies | 2 Followers

Posts 135
Gene Britton | Forum Activity | Posted: Tue, Dec 20 2011 7:02 AM

If you just had opportunity to add one of these to your library, which would it be?

NIVAC @ 250 or N.T. Wright collection @ 325

Posts 135
Gene Britton | Forum Activity | Replied: Tue, Dec 20 2011 7:06 AM

I have LIfe Application which I use and enjoy and only have a couple of Wright's books.  

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Milkman | Forum Activity | Replied: Tue, Dec 20 2011 9:16 AM

Just a quick reply. I'm not much of a NT Wright fan - so I'd go with NIVAC. I have several of Wright's books and the same with the commentaries. My choice? NIVAC

mm

mm.

Posts 1674
Paul N | Forum Activity | Replied: Tue, Dec 20 2011 9:26 AM

at $12.50 a volume for the NIVAC books you have to go for it.  The list of authors for the NT portion of the series is really great and now that the NIV is available on mobile devices, you can study with this set on the go.

Posts 453
Mike S. | Forum Activity | Replied: Tue, Dec 20 2011 9:28 AM

NIVAC because I get more use out of commentaries then I do monographs (and the Wright collection is missing three of his most important monographs).

Another reason for NIVAC - rarely, if ever will you find these titles on sale from Zondervan!

Posts 217
Danny Baskin | Forum Activity | Replied: Tue, Dec 20 2011 9:49 AM

Mike S.:

NIVAC because I get more use out of commentaries then I do monographs (and the Wright collection is missing three of his most important monographs).

And it's truly a shame that those monographs aren't included in the collection!

Posts 1955
Donovan R. Palmer | Forum Activity | Replied: Tue, Dec 20 2011 10:16 AM

It depends on what other commentaries you have in your collection and what your objectives are.  I find N.T. Wright thought provoking and depending on what I already had by way of commentaries, I would consider going for it.


I really like NIVAC alot too. Either way, you won't go wrong.

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DMB | Forum Activity | Replied: Tue, Dec 20 2011 11:06 AM

I was on the web searching out the background to AYB's Matthew commentary (early one). It was written at the tail end of William F Albright's lifetime.

But anyway I bounced into a page from a professor that listed all the acceptable commentaries to do in-depth exegetical work (all exceptions needed instructor approval!!). It had all the heavy duty guys.

But interestingly NIVAC was listed near the bottom of the page with a note that it had strong exegetical leanings. I thought that was interesting.

I think you'd find N.T Wright to be considerably more thought provoking, though. I suspect you'd find some of his comments uncomfortably interesting at this point in your life.

"God will save his fallen angels and their broken wings He'll mend."

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Matthew C Jones | Forum Activity | Replied: Tue, Dec 20 2011 11:52 AM

Denise Barnhart:
I think you'd find N.T Wright to be considerably more thought provoking, though. I suspect you'd find some of his comments uncomfortably interesting at this point in your life.

I certainly agree, Wright is very thought-provoking. But I think your assumption of an age-based increase (or decrease) in appreciation for Wright may be mistaken. Not all will be persuaded by his writings but all will appreciate them. Age does not seem to be a factor.

Choosing between NIVAC and the N.T. Wright Collection would all depend on my primary use of Logos. If I were preaching every week I would go for the NIVAC. Bible study should focus on the Bible. But since I use my Logos library more for reading history and theology I personally would get Wright first. I could barely afford the Wright collection when it shipped from Pre-Pub. I am glad I did not cancel at the last minute.

 

Logos 7 Collectors Edition

Posts 439
Mark Stevens | Forum Activity | Replied: Tue, Dec 20 2011 1:29 PM

I have found the NT Wright collection incredibly helpful both for preaching (at the end of my sermon preparation process) and as a devotional tool. The key with Wright is to understand the framework through which he interprets scripture. He is a historian first theologian second therefore, his theology is shaped by what he understands the text to have meant to a) its first readers and b) the wider culture of teh day. He is brilliant in the gospels and in Romans/Galatians. 

It is my view that he is under appreciated in America where he has received some pretty unfair criticism from elements of the reformed movement. 

Both are great sets (although I do not have NIVAC yet). The Wright collection would be similiar to Barclay's commentaries and the NIVAC like a larger series.

 

Hope that helps! Smile

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Jack Caviness | Forum Activity | Replied: Wed, Dec 21 2011 3:41 AM

Super Tramp:
Not all will be persuaded by his writings but all will appreciate them.

The only Logos resource for which I have ever requested a refund was a volume by N T Wright. Just to let you know that not everyone appreciates his writings.

Posts 439
Mark Stevens | Forum Activity | Replied: Wed, Dec 21 2011 3:58 AM

Jack Caviness:

Super Tramp:
Not all will be persuaded by his writings but all will appreciate them.

The only Logos resource for which I have ever requested a refund was a volume by N T Wright. Just to let you know that not everyone appreciates his writings.

Why so?

Posts 13417
Mark Barnes | Forum Activity | Replied: Wed, Dec 21 2011 4:00 AM

Mark Stevens:
He is brilliant in the gospels and in Romans/Galatians.

I agree on the gospels, but he's infuriating in the epistles. That's partly because I think he's wrong about the law, but mainly because his chatty style means he doesn't clearly state his theological point, even though you know from his larger works what he really thinks.

Personally, I think that Wright is most helpful for thoughtful sceptics. I think he has a real ministry there. But for 'ordinary' Christians who want some meat, I'm not sure he has a huge amount to offer (because his 'for everyone' series doesn't give enough, and his academic work gives too much).

Posts 439
Mark Stevens | Forum Activity | Replied: Wed, Dec 21 2011 4:07 AM

Mark Barnes:

Mark Stevens:
He is brilliant in the gospels and in Romans/Galatians.

I agree on the gospels, but he's infuriating in the epistles. That's partly because I think he's wrong about the law, but mainly because his chatty style means he doesn't clearly state his theological point, even though you know from his larger works what he really thinks.

Personally, I think that Wright is most helpful for thoughtful sceptics. I think he has a real ministry there. But for 'ordinary' Christians who want some meat, I'm not sure he has a huge amount to offer (because his 'for everyone' series doesn't give enough, and his academic work gives too much).

Fair criticism. The one thing I have noted about many who disagree with Wright (piper being the most well know) is very few do on his grounds. He is a first century historian who is largely influenced by second temple Judaism and how he understands it.

Personally I like his reading of Paul and the law, it makes sense but then again I was not heavily influenced by reformation theology before I looked at Wright.

The other point about Wright  is he deals Keith big picture stuff not verse by verse as many would like. Frustrating to many!

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NB.Mick | Forum Activity | Replied: Wed, Dec 21 2011 4:12 AM

Mark Barnes:
But for 'ordinary' Christians who want some meat, I'm not sure he has a huge amount to offer (because his 'for everyone' series doesn't give enough, and his academic work gives too much).

Interesting statement. That the big and expensive collection basically is his "for everyone" stuff drove me away from it, fearing what you called "doesn't give enough". I bought two of the other books as individual resources, but didn't get to read them in detail. But I still have http://www.logos.com/product/5223/christian-origins-and-the-question-of-god-series on my wishlist and was contemplating to earn some Logos credit on it (actually wishing for a discount during the twelve days...). Care to elaborate on the these?

Running Logos 9 latest (beta) version on Win 10

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Jack Caviness | Forum Activity | Replied: Wed, Dec 21 2011 4:12 AM

Mark Stevens:

Jack Caviness:

Super Tramp:
Not all will be persuaded by his writings but all will appreciate them.

The only Logos resource for which I have ever requested a refund was a volume by N T Wright. Just to let you know that not everyone appreciates his writings.

Why so?

I will not get into a theological debate here, but I will make one general statement and leave it there.

I found him to be rather rude and quite irritating when analyzing the position of anyone more conservative than himself while complementing the most radical of liberal destructive critics. He did point out the errors in their thinking, but treated them with utmost respect, something notably absent from his comments on conservative scholars. I don't need to pay to feel insulted, I can get that free.

Posts 439
Mark Stevens | Forum Activity | Replied: Wed, Dec 21 2011 4:24 AM

Jack Caviness:

Mark Stevens:

Jack Caviness:

Super Tramp:
Not all will be persuaded by his writings but all will appreciate them.

The only Logos resource for which I have ever requested a refund was a volume by N T Wright. Just to let you know that not everyone appreciates his writings.

Why so?

I will not get into a theological debate here, but I will make one general statement and leave it there.

I found him to be rather rude and quite irritating when analyzing the position of anyone more conservative than himself while complementing the most radical of liberal destructive critics. He did point out the errors in their thinking, but treated them with utmost respect, something notably absent from his comments on conservative scholars. I don't need to pay to feel insulted, I can get that free.

Another fair criticism. If it is his response to Piper then I would say it was his grumpiest book. Having said that the liberals treat him with dignity which he hasn't always received from more conservative Christians. Of which he is one I might add. 

 

Sorry to hear you had a bad experience, he really is a good scholar.

 

Funily enough I won't read Piper for the same reasons you mention about Wright.

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Mark Barnes | Forum Activity | Replied: Wed, Dec 21 2011 4:26 AM

NewbieMick:
But I still have http://www.logos.com/product/5223/christian-origins-and-the-question-of-god-series on my wishlist and was contemplating to earn some Logos credit on it (actually wishing for a discount during the twelve days...). Care to elaborate on the these?

They're seminal works, and tremendously influential in some circles. If your an evangelical NT scholar, or a scholar interested in the historical Jesus, you really need to read them. They're very well-written, so not at all dull. However, you have to wrestle with them. Wright will tell you things that you agree with, but he'll tell them in a new way, so you'll have to think carefully to be sure you do agree. And he'll tell you things you don't agree with, but he'll do so in such a way that you think you probably do agree with him - even though you don't. That takes even longer to think through.

Many conservatives don't like the volumes for multiple reasons. He concedes a lot of ground to sceptics in the sense both that he takes sceptical views seriously, and that he doesn't see scepticism on vital doctrines as incompatible with Christian faith. So, for example, in Wright's view you can be a genuine Christian and believe that Jesus Christ is not risen from the dead (even though he's convinced the resurrection did occur). The other major problem is that he reads the NT through the lens of Judaism, without (in my view) giving proper considering to the fact that Christianity was opposed to Judaism on a number of critical issues. Consequently his reading of the NT is distorted at points (particularly in relation to the law). As Mark said earlier, to benefit most from his books, you have to think as Wright thinks. For those of us who think he's wrong on this crucial point, the benefit we get is significantly reduced, because you spend too much time arguing with him.

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NB.Mick | Forum Activity | Replied: Wed, Dec 21 2011 4:28 AM

Thanks a lot, very helpful! 

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Mark Stevens | Forum Activity | Replied: Wed, Dec 21 2011 4:34 AM

Mark Barnes:

The other major problem is that he reads the NT through the lens of Judaism, without (in my view) giving proper considering to the fact that Christianity was opposed to Judaism on a number of critical issues. Consequently his reading of the NT is distorted at points (particularly in relation to the law). As Mark said earlier, to benefit most from his books, you have to think as Wright thinks. For those of us who think he's wrong on this crucial point, the benefit we get is significantly reduced, because you spend too much time arguing with him.

Oh Mark, and you live so close to him! ;) in relation to Judaism I believe that Christianity, especially 1 st century was a lot closer than we think thus I find Wright helpful. I would see the parting of the ways as gradual. But I am no expert it just seems to make sense so it ain't worth fighting over! ;)

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