12 Days of Logos Underwhelming?

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Posts 103
Mark O'Hearn | Forum Activity | Posted: Wed, Dec 21 2011 6:54 AM

Well, with the posting of the last offer in this year’s “12 Days of Logos” I must admit of being underwhelmed compared to last year, which was also my first Logos Christmas.  If I didn’t have Pillar (Platinum plus Hebrews) that was a good offer.  The NIV Application commentary series is not something I was thinking about but will consider it a bit given its unique approach.  The WBC series (Nelson Bundle) is not too far from my budget, and certainly the WBC series is well represented over at Best Commentaries.com.  But I do have a number of technical commentaries (hence my interest in the NIV set).

I will need to re-examine the Logos credit offer, as I think this is where the real Christmas deal lies this year.  However, it is not lost on me that unless one can find something discounted you are buying a product(s) at regular price.  Perhaps in some minds these prices are already 15%-25% inflated (?).  Good deals, good credit program, and a few interesting offers.  Still as I consider various other online Christmas buying situations for my family (kids) and myself this year, I am left where I started - underwhelmed this year.  Hopefully others feel differently. 

Perhaps as someone else has stated, folks with a few resources on their virtual shelves are going to see less appeal in these types of promotions.  Speaking of not only Logos, but all such companies (Bible programs) and e-book platforms, it is too bad that Biblical publishers haven’t realized the other business model – lower prices combined with mass sales equal very good returns on investment, especially as time goes along and the initial investment costs have already been paid.  Anyway, this is not a rant as much as a quiet whimper. J

Regards

Posts 1875
Paul-C | Forum Activity | Replied: Wed, Dec 21 2011 7:10 AM

Mark O'Hearn:

I will need to re-examine the Logos credit offer, as I think this is where the real Christmas deal lies this year.  However, it is not lost on me that unless one can find something discounted you are buying a product(s) at regular price.  

I think you "hit the nail on the head" here.

The resource(s) you buy during the Christmas promotion will be full price (assuming you don't go for anything in 12 Days of Logos), however once you've earned your Christmas credit, the next resource(s) you buy in the New Year will be effectively heavily discounted - or free - because of that Christmas credit.

Posts 570
Rev Chris | Forum Activity | Replied: Wed, Dec 21 2011 7:11 AM

I agree, to an extent.  The 12 Days of Logos didn't do much for me.  I like that they were promoting big packages rather than individual titles, but they weren't the packages I was interested in.  Frankly, the packages that are in "live" status that I'm interested in are already out of my price range for the moment (such as the AYB) and would be even with a sale.  But I can see how if someone was interested in the NIV or the WBC that the deals were good for them.

I was tempted to go with the Pillar commentary, and am now really glad I didn't.  The deal that WAS worth it for me was not part of the "12 Days of Logos" but instead was the base package deal.  Previously I had Scholar's and had spent most of my investment on pre-pubs.  Since my credit card for Logos purchases is being paid off this month, I was hoping I could upgrade my base package to something a little more representative of my total investment in Logos! :)  I now have the Scholars Gold package and once March or April comes around and I have this upgrade paid off I can upgrade to Platinum for really cheap with my Logos Christmas credit.  That will give me the Pillar commentary, which is why I am glad I didn't jump on that deal!

Pastor, seminary trustee, and app developer.  Check out my latest app for churches: The Church App

Posts 611
Graham Owen | Forum Activity | Replied: Wed, Dec 21 2011 7:31 AM

Mark O'Hearn:
Well, with the posting of the last offer in this year’s “12 Days of Logos” I must admit of being underwhelmed compared to last year, which was also my first Logos Christmas.

I agree with the sentiment and can't help feeling that we are now living with the reality of Logos' generosity during previous Christmas offerings. To date I either already have the offered resource/collection, have most of the collection or am not sure that the offer would really benefit my library. Personally I'd like a package that gave me a good price on all the "missing" volumes in various collections I already partly have which I guess is the whole point of the "money back" offer.

The only problem is how do I figure out what all these missing resources are, I know some i.e. a couple in WBC and 1 in Pillar but there are others that remain a mystery.

God Bless

Graham

Pastor - NTCOG Basingstoke

Posts 251
Rod Bergen | Forum Activity | Replied: Wed, Dec 21 2011 7:34 AM

Mark O'Hearn:
I will need to re-examine the Logos credit offer, as I think this is where the real Christmas deal lies this year.

The math on the Christmas credit is straightforward and equates to the following discounts on the entire purchase, i.e. both the initial purchase and the items acquired using the credits (assuming you are purchasing everything at regular prices):

   20% credit = 16.67% discount

   25% credit = 20.00% discount

   30% credit = 23.08% discount

   40% credit = 28.57% discount

   50% credit = 33.33% discount

Posts 11433
DMB | Forum Activity | Replied: Wed, Dec 21 2011 7:45 AM

Taxee .... I thought you were going to lighten up on the business-thing!

But luckily the resources I had my proverbial 'evil eye' on included additional discounts and so the credit percent ended up as the actual discount percent and even more.

But your calculation would have been great earlier when I was busily computing it incorrectly.

"God will save his fallen angels and their broken wings He'll mend."

Posts 8967
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Matthew C Jones | Forum Activity | Replied: Wed, Dec 21 2011 8:32 AM

Zondervan Bible Reference Bundle (87 vols.) $2024.95  $1799.95  a $225 savings  or 11% discount

 

   20% credit = 16.67% discount  +  11.11% discount  =  27.77%  $562 savings off the $2025 regular selling price

   25% credit = 20.00% discount  +  11.11% discount  =  31.11%  $629 savings off the $2025 regular selling price

.  30% credit = 23.08% discount  +  11.11% discount  =  34.19%  $692 savings off the $2025 regular selling price

   40% credit = 28.57% discount  +  11.11% discount  =  39.68%  $803 savings off the $2025 regular selling price

   50% credit = 33.33% discount  +  11.11% discount  =  44.44%  $900 savings off the $2025 regular selling price

This is the most conservative estimate of savings potential. It assumes you do not use the Logos Credit to purchase anything at less than regular selling price. In reality, many people will find sales opportunities in 2012 that may be beyond their "mad money" piggy bank range. Having some bucks in their Logos Credit column may enable them to take advantage of a good deal that saves them even more money: a deal they otherwise would have passed on.

If everyone remembers, when the Zondervan Bundle first shipped, there was quite a discussion over the pricing. I think Logos has done well in offering this set with this big of a savings.   I would call $562 to $900 an overwhelming discount.

Logos 7 Collectors Edition

Posts 1281
toughski | Forum Activity | Replied: Wed, Dec 21 2011 8:44 AM

Super Tramp:
Having some bucks in their Logos Credit column may enable them to take advantage of a good deal that saves them even more money

This is the same logic as "let's pay more taxes, so we can have a bigger tax credit". All in all, 11% for 87 books, many(?) of which may not be useful (or are a duplicate), is NOT a very good deal.

Having some CASH (instead of Logos Credit) may enable them to take advantage of a good deal that saves them even more money.

Super Tramp:
This is the most conservative estimate of savings potential

In business and in real life, the best estimate of cost is the most conservative one.

Super Tramp:
It assumes you do not use the Logos Credit to purchase anything at less than regular selling price

because it is naive to assume that LOGOS is going to discount the resources I need/want.

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Matthew C Jones | Forum Activity | Replied: Wed, Dec 21 2011 9:02 AM

toughski:
All in all, 11% for 87 books, many(?) of which may not be useful (or are a duplicate), is NOT a very good deal.

Geeked  For those forum readers who have difficulty with reading comprehension, I will type it  s-l-o-w-e-r  this time:

Super Tramp:

   20% credit = 16.67% discount  +  11.11% discount  =  27.77%  $562 savings off the $2025 regular selling price

   25% credit = 20.00% discount  +  11.11% discount  =  31.11%  $629 savings off the $2025 regular selling price

.  30% credit = 23.08% discount  +  11.11% discount  =  34.19%  $692 savings off the $2025 regular selling price

   40% credit = 28.57% discount  +  11.11% discount  =  39.68%  $803 savings off the $2025 regular selling price

   50% credit = 33.33% discount  +  11.11% discount  =  44.44%  $900 savings off the $2025 regular selling price 

toughski:
Having some CASH (instead of Logos Credit)
Once again, Logos rewards the faithful. Wink

toughski:
because it is naive to assume that LOGOS is going to discount the resources I need/want.

I honestly believe I have only paid regular selling price for this book, and it was worth it! Very few titles are exempt from sales. If you post your wish list in your profile page, I bet we can check off everything on it sometime during 2012 that gets offered on sale somewhere. Coffee Try it.

Logos 7 Collectors Edition

Posts 13428
Mark Barnes | Forum Activity | Replied: Wed, Dec 21 2011 9:13 AM

Mark O'Hearn:
Well, with the posting of the last offer in this year’s “12 Days of Logos” I must admit of being underwhelmed compared to last year, which was also my first Logos Christmas.

Although I didn't buy anything from the 12 Days (I had all but 2 products already), this has been the best Logos Christmas for me, and the only one I have really bought into. In previous years we had mega-collections, heavily discounted, but I had too many of those resources already, and the ones I didn't have I wasn't interested in. But this year, the Logos credit thing has effectively introduced discounts across the board. Personally I much prefer smaller discounts on products I want than larger discounts on products I don't really want. Even better, that discount is on top of the academic discount I already get, which isn't the case for all the other Christmas or black Friday deals we've seen before. I started going through the entire catalogue picking out books I would like, and easily added enough to get a decent percentage discount via Logos credit. And I've got enough products still in my wishlist to spend that credit on in January. It's been fantastic.

Mark O'Hearn:
However, it is not lost on me that unless one can find something discounted you are buying a product(s) at regular price.

Remember that you can just choose products 'On Sale' from the left-hand filter. It's a good place to start.

This is my personal Faithlife account. On 1 March 2022, I started working for Faithlife, and have a new 'official' user account. Posts on this account shouldn't be taken as official Faithlife views!

Posts 19699
Rosie Perera | Forum Activity | Replied: Wed, Dec 21 2011 9:15 AM

Graham Owen:

Mark O'Hearn:
Well, with the posting of the last offer in this year’s “12 Days of Logos” I must admit of being underwhelmed compared to last year, which was also my first Logos Christmas.

I agree with the sentiment and can't help feeling that we are now living with the reality of Logos' generosity during previous Christmas offerings. To date I either already have the offered resource/collection, have most of the collection or am not sure that the offer would really benefit my library.

I think what we're all experiencing, those of us who have been Logos customers for a while, is the reality that eventually you've already got most of the good stuff that you're going to get. So if they offer "12 Days" deals on great products you already have, that's wonderful for all the newer Logos customers, but ho-hum for you. It's not necessarily that Logos is being less generous this year than in previous years. It's that their generosity is benefiting those who haven't benefited from it as much before. Sit back and let them enjoy the pleasure. And think of how much you're saving by not buying anything this season! Smile

Posts 1674
Paul N | Forum Activity | Replied: Wed, Dec 21 2011 9:19 AM

toughski:

Super Tramp:
Having some bucks in their Logos Credit column may enable them to take advantage of a good deal that saves them even more money

This is the same logic as "let's pay more taxes, so we can have a bigger tax credit". All in all, 11% for 87 books, many(?) of which may not be useful (or are a duplicate), is NOT a very good deal.

Having some CASH (instead of Logos Credit) may enable them to take advantage of a good deal that saves them even more money.

 

Toughski are you sure you are reading ST correctly?  Your tax credit anaology assumes the Logos books you receive in return for your payment are nothing but a burden to you.  If you receive credit and books, I wouldn't exactly say its like paying taxes.  Through the credit offer you give your money more spending power with your current purchases.  Not too many places allow my $1000 to yield an extra $300 just because I spent it at a certain time.  Say two people anticipated Logos offering this credit program and both intend to buy books.  One spends $2500 now, while the other person keeps his cash liquid.  January 15, 2011 rolls around (assuming credit has been distributed) the spender now enjoys $2500 worth of books + $1000 in credit while the saver still has his $2500.  How is this not a good deal if you have the disposable income?

 

Posts 201
Garrett Ho | Forum Activity | Replied: Wed, Dec 21 2011 9:29 AM

Mark O'Hearn:

Perhaps as someone else has stated, folks with a few resources on their virtual shelves are going to see less appeal in these types of promotions.  Speaking of not only Logos, but all such companies (Bible programs) and e-book platforms, it is too bad that Biblical publishers haven’t realized the other business model – lower prices combined with mass sales equal very good returns on investment, especially as time goes along and the initial investment costs have already been paid. 

Again, this is an issue with publishers. Logos often does not determine prices.

Even still, there is a problem with the high-volume approach - the spillover effect to print books and prices, especially with already small print runs on some academic titles. Some solutions that we propose have consequences we haven't considered. It is not today that they aren't viable, but the situation is never as simple as we make it seem.

Also, although I haven't taken advantage of many Christmas deals, I think it is more a function of my library size than the deals. If someone doesn't have the Zondefvan set or WBC and has the money, this is a good time to buy. The credit doesn't expire, either. So just use it at the next march madness, or other sale, of you are patient.

Posts 1281
toughski | Forum Activity | Replied: Wed, Dec 21 2011 9:30 AM

I'll refrain from bashing your math or your character - just make an observation: getting 20%-50% credit ASSUMES that one needs/wants enough resources to justify spending $100-5000+

BTW, discounts don't add, they average. But, after all it is 5th grade math.

Super Tramp:
If you post your wish list in your profile page, I bet we can check off everything on it sometime during 2012 that gets offered on sale somewhere. Coffee Try it.

I would be willing to pay full price for Sermon Add-On for Logos4 (I realize it is not a book, but still, I am taking you up on your offer) as well as PB that works with foreign languages.

Posts 103
Mark O'Hearn | Forum Activity | Replied: Wed, Dec 21 2011 9:37 AM

Good (general) discussion folks.  Mark the credit program certainly is a nice (new) feature.  In my wishlist I have the Works of Ironside and HALOT.  With a December 1 purchase (Pillar Hebrews), which I made prior to learning about the credit program, if I decide to purchase Ironside I will get HALOT about 1/2 off in January.  Indeed, not bad at all.

Notwithstanding, Rosie I think you are correct; I will be spending less money this Christmas than last year.  And for the record certainly my comments are not a criticism just my personal reflection on this year's Christmas deals compared to last year.

Best regards

Posts 13428
Mark Barnes | Forum Activity | Replied: Wed, Dec 21 2011 9:39 AM

Super Tramp:
I would call $562 to $900 an overwhelming discount.

Your maths isn't quite right because you can't add percentages to percentages. To give a real-life illustration, if you buy the ZBRB for $1,799.95, you'll get 30% credit, which equates to $539.96. So, you'll spend $1,799.95 and get products valued at $2,024.95+$539.96 = £2,564.91. That's a discount of $764.96 or 29.82%.

To give another illustration: If you also purchased another $700 worth products now, then your discount rate would go up. So if you added in the Nelson Reference collection at $599.95 and the Calvin Commentary Series for $129.95 the discount rate would now be:

Your products normally sold for $2,024.95+$899.95+$399.95 = $3,324.85
You've paid: $1,799.95+$599.95+$129.95 = $2,529.85
You've earned 40% credit = $1,011.94

So, you've paid $2,529.85 to get $3,324.85+$1,011.94 ($4,336.79) worth of resources. That's a saving of $1,806.94 or 41.67%.

<edit>I'm 30 cents out in my normal price of ZBRB. It will make a tiny difference, but I'm not working it all out again!</edit>

This is my personal Faithlife account. On 1 March 2022, I started working for Faithlife, and have a new 'official' user account. Posts on this account shouldn't be taken as official Faithlife views!

Posts 611
Graham Owen | Forum Activity | Replied: Wed, Dec 21 2011 9:44 AM

Rosie Perera:
And think of how much you're saving by not buying anything this season!

Agreed and it is actually good news for me as I have been out of work since October and don't start my new job until January so I'm not being tempted to spend money that I don't really have. If my situation was different I would probably be taking advantage of the buy and get money back offer as that looks like it could be a good way forward for those of us who have over dosed on Logos' previous generosity!

God Bless

Graham

Pastor - NTCOG Basingstoke

Posts 1281
toughski | Forum Activity | Replied: Wed, Dec 21 2011 9:44 AM

Paul Newsome:
the spender now enjoys $2500 worth of books + $1000 in credit while the saver still has his $2500.  How is this not a good deal if you have the disposable income?

Paul, I know. But you both assume that 1) there is sufficient disposable income to make % worthwhile, 2) there are enough resources that one wants/needs at a decent price to spend $2500 (even if I wanted Zondervan bundle, it would not be a good value for me), 3) there are no other better "investments" of one's disposable income.

Paul Newsome:
Your tax credit anaology assumes the Logos books you receive in return for your payment are nothing but a burden to you.

no, of course not. But getting duplicate/unwanted resources in bundles could be classified as "dead weight"

Posts 124
Brooks Cochran | Forum Activity | Replied: Wed, Dec 21 2011 9:47 AM

I agree. I either have or am not interested in the offerings.

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Matthew C Jones | Forum Activity | Replied: Wed, Dec 21 2011 9:55 AM

toughski:
I'll refrain from bashing your math or your character
Why thank you for that kindness.
toughski:
just make an observation: getting 20%-50% credit ASSUMES that one needs/wants enough resources to justify spending $100-5000+
Logos is correct in that assumption. It isn't hard to find $5000 worth of Logos resources I would like. It is the $5000 that is elusive. Hmm
toughski:
BTW, discounts don't add, they average. But, after all it is 5th grade math.
Stick out tongue In my house nothing is average. My home schooled 11 year old was doing quantum mechanics and string theory in 5th grade. (He had already taught himself multiplication at three years of age.) I was keeping the example simple; "conservative,"  you like to say.

At the end of the day all I care about is "What did I get for my money?" If it is the Zondervan Reference Bundle discounted from $2025 to $1125 effectively, I say it is an overwhelmingly good deal, IF one wants the resource. But 99% off a set of golf clubs is useless to me this month. Maybe you need to check out your local Pro-shop if these deals are not appealing.

 

Logos 7 Collectors Edition

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