Base Package Indecision

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Mitchell | Forum Activity | Posted: Wed, Dec 21 2011 3:35 PM

Hi all,

Apologies in advance for the long post. I'm hoping to glean some of the forum's collective wisdom in a debate I'm having with myself. I'm a soon-to-be Seminary student who's planning to use Logos primarily for school. I also teach small groups at my church (and preach, very rarely).

My dilemma (trilemma really) is this: I currently have the Bible Study library. It's handy, but definitely limited. I know in Seminary I'm going to need a lot more from Logos, especially in terms of original language resources. I got some money for Christmas from my in-laws to put towards those resources, and I'm debating what path to take. After talking with a Logo sales rep, here are my options:

1. Upgrade to Scholar's. There are two problems with this. One, it's expensive. I was given $200 and doubt I'll be able to justify spending more than that. Two, I'll be paying for a lot of stuff I don't need or want. I have absolutely no use for anything in the preaching, ministry, counseling, devotional, or apologetics categories. Resources like that I'll get in paper form or on Kindle, and they'll be selected by recommendation of people I respect, not by inclusion in a default package from a software company. This is at the bottom of the list, as of now.

2. Keep Bible Study and add Original Languages. This would cost about the same amount as an upgrade to Scholar's, but I've already paid for some of these resources and would be paying for them again. Still, there's not much in Scholar's that isn't in Original Languages that I care about. Notable exceptions are The Oxford Dictionary of the Christian Church, History of the Christian Church, and the Theological Wordbook of the Old Testament. Balancing that out, I would get some resources not included in Scholar's - Lexham Hebrew-English Interlinear, The Context of Scriptures (this I think would be very useful, and is a $300 value), and a bunch of really interesting-looking texts and resources that I might use someday. It also has some Greek and Hebrew textbooks that I could use to get a head start before Seminary.

3. Swap Bible Study for Original Languages. The sales rep said I bought Bible Study recently enough that its value could be applied towards a different package. This option is in my price range, and I would get a lot of the academic tools and resources that I need, but at a cost. Besides the aforementioned devotionals and ministry resources that I don't care much for, I would lose some Bible translations, all the commentaries (not that the ones included in Bible Study are that great) and some Theology books that I may need in Seminary (Hodge's Systematic Theology, Calvin's Institutes). For what it's worth, I would have some cash left over (plus Christmas credit) to make up for a few of these losses by buying individual titles. Because of the money issue, I'm leaning towards this option. 

Eventually I'd like to buy a good commentary set or two (New Interpreter's Bible looks nice) and maybe HALOT/BDAG but let's face it, those resources aren't cheap and neither is Seminary. I'll probably only be buying the things I need for specific classes, at least for the foreseeable future. Which one of these options will set me up best to have the resources I need?

Thanks,

Mitch

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Frank Sauer | Forum Activity | Replied: Wed, Dec 21 2011 3:47 PM

Hey Mitch,

Before really getting too deep in your decision making, make sure you speak to Logos Academic Sales to be sure the prices quoted are at the nice discount price for Seminary/Bible College Students and faculty. That should give you the best price for your choices.

Personally I have built my way up to Scholar's Silver over the years from the Ultimate Reference Library and Christian Home package. So it costs a little extra over time by not doing the full upgrades, but it doesn't hurt a tight book budget as bad.

Now would be the time to upgrade with the great promotion going on.

If you have your Academic Pricing already, I'd make the call to get an idea of what the upgrade from Scholars to Silver and from Original Languages to Silver would cost to set yourself up for the next upgrade that has some resources that would benefit you as you continue in Seminary.

 

Blessings,

 

Frank

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Dave Hooton | Forum Activity | Replied: Wed, Dec 21 2011 4:47 PM

Mitchell Ebbott:
1. Upgrade to Scholar's.

Mitch's Frank's advice is excellent, so do this upgrade as a minimum and ignore the "baggage". Going to Original Languages is a compromise as you will eventually need to upgrade to Silver, so make sure you cover this point with Sales i.e Scholar's to Silver vs OL to Silver.

Dave
===

Windows 11 & Android 8

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Mark Barnes | Forum Activity | Replied: Wed, Dec 21 2011 5:05 PM

Frank Sauer:
Before really getting too deep in your decision making, make sure you speak to Logos Academic Sales to be sure the prices quoted are at the nice discount price for Seminary/Bible College Students and faculty. That should give you the best price for your choices.

Yes, this is important. You'll get a substantial discount as a student (much better than the 15% 'standard' discount currently on offer), and that should make Scholar's affordable for you.

This is my personal Faithlife account. On 1 March 2022, I started working for Faithlife, and have a new 'official' user account. Posts on this account shouldn't be taken as official Faithlife views!

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DMB | Forum Activity | Replied: Wed, Dec 21 2011 5:15 PM

As extra comment, keep your eye on the Lexham Hebrew/English interlinear ... some advice first passing thru OL for that before upgrading to Scholars. It's pretty unique.

"God will save his fallen angels and their broken wings He'll mend."

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NB.Mick | Forum Activity | Replied: Wed, Dec 21 2011 5:16 PM

Mitchell Ebbott:

Hi all,

Apologies in advance for the long post. I'm hoping to glean some of the forum's collective wisdom in a debate I'm having with myself. I'm a soon-to-be Seminary student who's planning to use Logos primarily for school. I also teach small groups at my church (and preach, very rarely).

My dilemma (trilemma really) is this: I currently have the Bible Study library. It's handy, but definitely limited. I know in Seminary I'm going to need a lot more from Logos, especially in terms of original language resources. I got some money for Christmas from my in-laws to put towards those resources, and I'm debating what path to take. After talking with a Logo sales rep, here are my options: (....)

Eventually I'd like to buy a good commentary set or two (New Interpreter's Bible looks nice) and maybe HALOT/BDAG but let's face it, those resources aren't cheap and neither is Seminary. I'll probably only be buying the things I need for specific classes, at least for the foreseeable future. Which one of these options will set me up best to have the resources I need?

Maybe there's a fourth option - or even a factual neccessity, given that seminary is more than learning ancient languagues. In addition to making sure you get the academic discount, make sure to visit your seminary's website and take a look at their course curriculum and required reading list.

You may find that in first year you are doing only a beginners course in Greek, no Hebrew and for sure no Syriac and Aramaic. Thus most of the OL package (as well as BDAG/HALOT) may be of interest to you some years down the road, but not soon. There is a thread out here that discusses explicitly leaving the hands off Logos for the most part of learning Greek. So what do you really need? NA27 and/or UBS4, maybe an LXX and perhaps a Hebrew OT. Look at the Logos individual products and their Guides at http://www.logos.com/products/guides. Maybe the free Lexham Greek NT is okay http://www.logos.com/product/8486/the-greek-new-testament-sbl-edition maybe  http://www.logos.com/product/8484/stuttgart-electronic-study-bible is the way to go for language studies. Find out which textbook you will use for language study and whether it is in Logos (and if so: which package) or not.

Instead you may find that they expect you to work thoroughly with a certain Systematic Theology (chances are good for Grudem http://www.logos.com/product/8413/systematic-theology-an-introduction-to-biblical-doctrine or Erickson http://www.logos.com/product/3620/christian-theology-2nd-ed ) and a number of other textbooks that may be in Logos or not. If not: be prepared to invest into paper books. Otherwise: pick your choices. Make sure to get the free books ( http://wiki.logos.com/Free_Logos_Books and  http://www.logos.com/products/search?start=&sort=pricelo&pageSize=15  ) and check out the forums for further advice.

Wishing you all the best,

Mick

 

Running Logos 9 latest (beta) version on Win 10

Posts 452
Mitchell | Forum Activity | Replied: Wed, Dec 21 2011 5:27 PM

Thanks for the advice. I'll try to find out more about the academic discounts, but when I spoke to the sales rep I got the impression that they're for currently enrolled students in seminary only. I won't be starting for 6 months and while money is tight now, I expect it will be near-impossible to afford any sort of upgrade at that time. 

I think I'll find out more about how much it would be to upgrade from Original Languages. Upgrade paths aren't my first worry though.. Looking at the packages, the only one above Original Languages that seems to offer any additional value to me is Gold, and it'll be a good five years before I can drop $1000+ on software. 

So future upgrades complete aside, what value do the resources in Scholar's and Bible Study (but not in OL) provide to a student?

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Mark Barnes | Forum Activity | Replied: Wed, Dec 21 2011 6:18 PM

Mitchell Ebbott:
So future upgrades complete aside, what value do the resources in Scholar's and Bible Study (but not in OL) provide to a student?

By getting OL and not Scholars you would lose out on:

  • English Bibles, including NIV and NKJV
  • The commentaries in Bible Study Library
  • Greek/English Interlinear Septuagint
  • The few dozen practical preaching/ministry books in Leaders.

By getting Scholars and not OL, you would lose out on:

  • Hebrew Interlinear
  • Syriac texts
  • ANE texts
  • Metzger's Textual Commentary
  • A few grammars and lexicons

It is possible, by the way, to get the resources to both OL and Scholars. To do so, you buy OL then upgrade to Scholars. You'll need to check the price with your sales rep, though, as it's not published, but I don't think it's that high. You could probably upgrade to OL now, then use the logos.com credit deal to do the upgrade to Scholars for free in January.

This is my personal Faithlife account. On 1 March 2022, I started working for Faithlife, and have a new 'official' user account. Posts on this account shouldn't be taken as official Faithlife views!

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Mark Smith | Forum Activity | Replied: Wed, Dec 21 2011 10:07 PM

Mitchell,

I am pleased you are trying to look ahead to preparing for ministry and using Logos to help with that. If you really want to focus just on original language study you may not want Logos at all. Have you considered that? For less than $400 you can get started on another package that will do original languages but not all that much more.

Of course, there's the rub. For me Logos is a library replacement not just a tool to do OL studies. It does those studies well but also lets me do a lot more than that. So in the long run Logos may be the better, if not the least expensive, choice for you as it has been for me.

If you know the seminary you will attend it would be wise to check ahead to see what study software they require in the original languages class. There is no point in spending very limited funds only to find out you should have spent them on package B. I'm sure someone at the seminary bookstore could answer some questions for you and tell you about any special pricing they have for enrolled students.

Did you know that Logos has a scholarship they award for seminarians as well? You can get $1,000 for seminary and a free copy of the Scholar's Library. The next one will be awarded in January. You'll need to be enrolled in seminary before you can apply, but that could help you when that day comes. See: http://www.seminaryscholarship.com/

Pastor, North Park Baptist Church

Bridgeport, CT USA

Posts 452
Mitchell | Forum Activity | Replied: Tue, Jan 3 2012 8:07 AM

Thanks all for the advice. Mark especially - it was good to think over what exactly I intend on using Logos for. I applied for the scholarship, so here's hoping on that one! As far as schools, I haven't yet decided where I'm going to go. I just submitted my applications, so it largely depends on where I get in.

After talking it over with a Logos rep, I decided to go with OL after all. I don't yet miss any of the resources I lost, with the exception of a few Bible translations which I replaced on the $10 sale. I think this puts me in a good place to expand into a true digital library, since all the dictionaries, lexicons, tools, and manuscripts will link up nicely with any theologies, commentaries, and textbooks that I need to buy for seminary. Plus, I have some Christmas Credit now that I can spend on what I need in my first semester.

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