Catholic church the antichrist? Really?

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Paul | Forum Activity | Replied: Tue, Dec 27 2011 3:27 AM

Hi there

Dave Hunt's books are worth reading and he has written quite a few.  Apart from the title mentioned in this thread (which I have on my shelf),  they include 'The Seduction of Christianity' referring to the charismatic movement, 'A  Cup of Trembling'  addressing the importance of Jerusalem and more recently "What Love is this?" addressing aspects of Calvinism. 

His approach is that of a fairly conservative evangelical who holds to the view that RCism is incompatible with biblical Cristianity.  To that end he accepts the view of Luther and Calvin regarding the Pope as anti-christ. This is reflected in 'Woman rides the Beast' and can be a little confronting in today's liberal environment. Nevertheless, whether you agree with him or not, he writes well - and he is not a conspiracy theorist nor is he a fruitcake. 

I would recommend his books be made available on Logos - and more information is available at his website - http://www.thebereancall.org/    Have a Happy Christmas !  Paul  

   

Posts 1803
Tom | Forum Activity | Replied: Tue, Dec 27 2011 6:32 AM

This is a link for all of you who need your weekly antichrist fix. As you can see the profits just keep rolling in. http://www.armageddonbooks.com/anti.html 

It is the same as Hunts Rapture books, if the first date is not right, don´t worry, the next one is bound to be right, at least right enough to sell more books to the those needing to fan the rapture mania flames. Wink

 

www.hombrereformado.org  Solo a Dios la Gloria   Apoyo

Posts 217
Danny Baskin | Forum Activity | Replied: Tue, Dec 27 2011 8:23 AM

Tom Rach:

This is a link for all of you who need your weekly antichrist fix. As you can see the profits just keep rolling in. http://www.armageddonbooks.com/anti.html 

It is the same as Hunts Rapture books, if the first date is not right, don´t worry, the next one is bound to be right, at least right enough to sell more books to the those needing to fan the rapture mania flames.

Dr. Rach,

Took the link; it's both laughable and abominable. Unfortunately, people truly buy that drivel.

db

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Matthew C Jones | Forum Activity | Replied: Tue, Dec 27 2011 9:34 AM

Tom Rach:
It is the same as Hunts Rapture books, if the first date is not right, don´t worry, the next one is bound to be right, at least right enough to sell more books to the those needing to fan the rapture mania flames. Wink

It is easy to lump everybody together and dispense with the whole lot. That is the usual way of handling people we don't agree with. But I do not recall Dave Hunt ever being a "date-setter" in the fashion of Harold Camping. I believe Hal Lindsey comes much closer and I still would like to have his books in Logos too.

The end times prophecy obsession of the last century is no less important than the dispensationalism rage preceding it, or the debate over indulgences in Luther's time. It is important to recognize there are always abusers who can run with an important question of doctrine and mislead the general populace. But we shouldn't be mocking the idea of anti-Christ because the initial warning about counterfeits came from the One true Christ.

As bizarre as I find snake-handling in worship service, I think a good course of study for a ThD will touch on it. Same for the Shakers, the date-setters, predestination, universalism, new revelations, Zionism, good seed/bad seed,  Mother God, adventism, Saint of the day, vicarious baptism, Holiness........ All these doctrines are viewed by others as kooky. A good student of theology needs to know about  all of these doctrines. I commend Milkman for his interest.

btw: I only glanced at the website you linked to and saw enough on the first page to turn my stomach. It looked like the "podcast of the week" for the latest celebrity gossip on Mr. A-C.

   There is an anti-christ behind every bush.

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Paul Golder | Forum Activity | Replied: Tue, Dec 27 2011 9:38 AM

Tom Rach:
It is the same as Hunts Rapture books, if the first date is not right, don´t worry, the next one is bound to be right, at least right enough to sell more books to the those needing to fan the rapture mania flames. Wink

The only reason that the dates are not coming true is because the New World Order reads the books first and changes the dates, just to make the people who write them look stupid Wink

"As any translator will attest, a literal translation is no translation at all."

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George Somsel | Forum Activity | Replied: Tue, Dec 27 2011 10:29 AM

Super Tramp:
As bizarre as I find snake-handling in worship service, I think a good course of study for a ThD will touch on it.

Why?

george
gfsomsel

יְמֵי־שְׁנוֹתֵינוּ בָהֶם שִׁבְעִים שָׁנָה וְאִם בִּגְבוּרֹת שְׁמוֹנִים שָׁנָה וְרָהְבָּם עָמָל וָאָוֶן

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Matthew C Jones | Forum Activity | Replied: Tue, Dec 27 2011 10:43 AM

George Somsel:
Super Tramp:
As bizarre as I find snake-handling in worship service, I think a good course of study for a ThD will touch on it.
Why?

Why I find snake handling in church a bizarre doctrine? Or why should a ThD be familiar with it?

The former: Because I view it just as much an abuse of authority (they are claiming Apostolic authority here but for no good end) as Moses striking the rock a second time and "Baldy" cursing the kids and she-bears killing them.

The later: Because when confronted with different doctrines it is better to have an answer for some inquiring soul than to dismiss them as just a bunch of dumb hillbillies that need a good bite from a mean rattlesnake. The guy asking could very well have grown up in that church. We do have some snake handlers in the Kiamichi Mountains in SE Oklahoma.

But then again, it probably matters what you use your theology education for. One cannot be all things to all people.

 

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Paul Golder | Forum Activity | Replied: Tue, Dec 27 2011 10:48 AM

While we are on the subject, there is something that has always bothered me.

Why is it that when Christ makes it plain in Matthew 24 who will leave when the Lord comes, that just about every "rapture writer" gets it backwards?

 

"For as were the days of Noah, so will be the coming of the Son of Man. For as in those days before the flood they were eating and drinking, marrying and giving in marriage, until the day when Noah entered the ark, and they were unaware until the flood came and swept them all away, so will be the coming of the Son of Man. Then two men will be in the field; one will be taken and one left. Two women will be grinding at the mill; one will be taken and one left."

Matthew 24:37–41

"As any translator will attest, a literal translation is no translation at all."

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George Somsel | Forum Activity | Replied: Tue, Dec 27 2011 10:54 AM

Super Tramp:
The later: Because when confronted with different doctrines it is better to have an answer for some inquiring soul than to dismiss them as just a bunch of dumb hillbillies that need a good bite from a mean rattlesnake. The guy asking could very well have grown up in that church. We do have some snake handlers in the Kiamichi Mountains in SE Oklahoma.

I vote for letting them get bitten.  We don't teach about a flat earth either.

george
gfsomsel

יְמֵי־שְׁנוֹתֵינוּ בָהֶם שִׁבְעִים שָׁנָה וְאִם בִּגְבוּרֹת שְׁמוֹנִים שָׁנָה וְרָהְבָּם עָמָל וָאָוֶן

Posts 1674
Paul Golder | Forum Activity | Replied: Tue, Dec 27 2011 11:10 AM

George Somsel:
We don't teach about a flat earth either.

True, but are their churches full of people dancing around with flat earth maps...

"As any translator will attest, a literal translation is no translation at all."

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Dean J | Forum Activity | Replied: Tue, Dec 27 2011 11:22 AM

These threads seem to be used as an excuse for foolishness and stupidity rather than Logos related discussion. 

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Paul Golder | Forum Activity | Replied: Tue, Dec 27 2011 11:34 AM

Dean053:

These threads seem to be used as an excuse for foolishness and stupidity rather than Logos related discussion. 

"Please treat each other with the love, courtesy, respect, and kindness that you would if you were sitting in your living room together." ~ Phil Gons, Logos Bible Software

"As any translator will attest, a literal translation is no translation at all."

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Dean J | Forum Activity | Replied: Tue, Dec 27 2011 11:59 AM

"Please keep your discussions focused on Logos Bible Software: our software, products, websites, company, tools, etc."

- not childish banter, not endless corny and irrelevant jokes, not referring to fellow believers as having a 'mania' because of their views on end-times (views I do not share BTW, but don't feel the need to characterize in an uncharitable manner either), not making ourselves look good at the expense of people who have differing practices and tend to live in mountainous regions, or wishing them harm (whether in jest or not) etc etc. It's always the same few people who think that making others look stupid somehow makes them look good. Get over it.  

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Matthew C Jones | Forum Activity | Replied: Tue, Dec 27 2011 12:11 PM

Dean053:
These threads seem to be used as an excuse for foolishness and stupidity rather than Logos related discussion.

Sorry you feel that way Dean. My teachers always said there was never a stupid question but the one that was not asked. And if we would ban all the joking from these forums I would suggest we start with banning humor from the pulpits first. Humor is an excellent tool for communication.

If the foolishness you allege lies in the doctrinal questions implied, just remember, some Logos users think being baptized in the name of Jesus (instead of Yeshua) guarantees damnation, while other Logos users believe attending church on a Sunday is, at the least, sinful. I hope you are not marginalizing the Logos users who really DO believe the woman riding the dragon in Revelation represents the Catholic Church.

Virtually all of men's thoughts on God are but foolishness. Being able to scrutinize our lofty thoughts in light of what the Bible has to say is the benefit of Logos.The World has always tried to cloud the truth from our vision. We may already find ourselves believing lies. Many have posted how they have been freed from deception by better Bible study. Logos is made for foolish and stupid people who no longer want to remain as such.

 

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MJ. Smith | Forum Activity | Replied: Tue, Dec 27 2011 12:15 PM

Super Tramp:
Why I find snake handling in church a bizarre doctrine? Or why should a ThD be familiar with it?

I tend to be more concerned that a ThD have an understanding of the breadth of Christianity - East and West through history. For most small American groups, it is the ability to discover  what they believe and why that a ThD. should know. Which is why Logos needs to fill in the gaps in its history offering - church history, Bible interpretation history, theological history, liturgical history ...

Orthodox Bishop Hilarion Alfeyev: "To be a theologian means to have experience of a personal encounter with God through prayer and worship."

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MJ. Smith | Forum Activity | Replied: Tue, Dec 27 2011 12:18 PM

Paul Golder:
True, but are their churches full of people dancing around with flat earth maps...

I know of one site that comes close ... and more embarrassing, it's a catholic convert.Embarrassed This is a why I think Logos should have more resources covering reasoning skills for the Christian context ... and an argument mapping capability.

Orthodox Bishop Hilarion Alfeyev: "To be a theologian means to have experience of a personal encounter with God through prayer and worship."

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Matthew C Jones | Forum Activity | Replied: Tue, Dec 27 2011 12:38 PM

MJ. Smith:
I tend to be more concerned that a ThD

This is further evidence of why Logos needs to have a very broad content. I concur that your focus of a theology education is important. But the focus needs to be relevant to purpose of the education. Your East-West history may not be important to a theologian serving a Hmong group transplanted to Michigan. Maybe I could think of a few reasons why it would but there are many areas of service and not enough time to study for all of them.

I am very happy Logos has many original language study materials.  Like others have said today, I don't need some of this and I never will. Trust me, you won't be consulting me on Hebrew. Likewise, if my neighbor needs serious spiritual counseling, I will seek out a qualified counselor for them. I don't diffuse bombs either.

The broader the education, the better. The bigger the Logos library, the better. But we gotta have some focus here!

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Paul Golder | Forum Activity | Replied: Tue, Dec 27 2011 12:43 PM

Super Tramp:
Virtually all of men's thoughts on God are but foolishness. Being able to scrutinize our lofty thoughts in light of what the Bible has to say is the benefit of Logos.The World has always tried to cloud the truth from our vision. We may already find ourselves believing lies. Many have posted how they have been freed from deception by better Bible study. Logos is made for foolish and stupid people who no longer want to remain as such.

Good stuff Yes

"As any translator will attest, a literal translation is no translation at all."

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Paul Golder | Forum Activity | Replied: Tue, Dec 27 2011 12:45 PM

MJ. Smith:
This is a why I think Logos should have more resources covering reasoning skills for the Christian context

+1 Yes

         Come now, let us reason together
         says the LORD.

"As any translator will attest, a literal translation is no translation at all."

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Matthew C Jones | Forum Activity | Replied: Tue, Dec 27 2011 12:52 PM

Paul Golder:
Why is it that when Christ makes it plain in Matthew 24
......

Because ther are at least three ways of reading Matthew 24 and at least two of them have got to be wrong.

1) Some will say Matthew 24 is entirely about the destruction of Jerusalem in 70AD

2) Some will say Matthew 24 is entirely about the final days of teh Tribulation

3) Some will say Matthew 24 has two prophecies; the first about 70 AD and the second about the end times.

4) Others say........

And "No, I'm not gonna discuss which one is obvious to me"

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