Important Time-saving Constructive Suggestion: make search result reference to verses tool-tipped

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Posts 171
Jerome Smith | Forum Activity | Posted: Wed, Dec 28 2011 8:08 AM

I enjoy using Logos 4, but it takes an inordinate amount of time to hand-check search results in a hard-copy Bible when the Scripture references that show up in the search are not "tool tipped."

I am searching for reciprocal references in my book The New Treasury of Scripture Knowledge. Logos provides excellent, accurate results, but I cannot simply hover the mouse over a reference to see the Scripture text displayed.

Logos programmers need to fix this problem right away!

For example, I am currently studying Zechariah 9:17 in my ongoing research to provide even more extensive cross references than those now contained in the New Treasury.

I type in "Zechariah 9:17" in the "search box" provided when I click on the third icon over from the upper left-hand corner of the Logos 4 home screen that looks like a magnifying glass.

Results are given for all the resources in my library (which is very handy).

I click the expand icon (the down arrow) associated with my book, The New Treasury of Scripture Knowledge (yes, I am the author of that volume, Jerome Smith), and I get a list of about 53 citations in the New Treasury to other references to Zechariah 9:17, some of which are not given at the references now available in the New Treasury at Zechariah 9:17 itself.

My current study project is to add those newly found reciprocal references into the text of the verse being studied, in this case, Zechariah 9:17, at the proper key words given there.

As the Logos 4 program is now designed and configured, I must check the references listed in the search by hand to read them. It would be exceedingly helpful if the reference results that show the verse in parentheses would be tool tipped so I could read them instantly by hovering the mouse pointer over the reference, instead of checking them out by hand as I now do. I only check the most doctrinally or prophetically significant passages now because of how long it takes to follow the process.

So, unless someone knows an easier method to find reciprocal references in a format that I can read the tool-tipped results immediately, I hope some kind programmer at Logos will step in and correct this deficiency in Logos 4 software.

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Graham Criddle | Forum Activity | Replied: Wed, Dec 28 2011 8:36 AM

Hi Jerome - and welcome to the forums.

Thank you for your great resource.

I understand what you are trying to do but I don't think there is a mechanism to do that within the search tool. It is designed so that the search "hit" is enabled as a link with pop-up, but not text around it.

You can see this as other Bible references on the same line are not enabled in the search results.

I can't think of any immediate way to address this but others might!

Graham

Posts 171
Jerome Smith | Forum Activity | Replied: Wed, Dec 28 2011 8:50 AM

Thank you, Graham, for your reply. This indeed is my first post to the Logos Forum. 

I hope that a Logos programmer who knows what he or she is doing can see a solution--from an internal programming standpoint, it ought to be a fairly simple matter far as coding goes. But that is  not my department of expertise.

But even looking up the newly generated reciprocal cross references by hand is a great blessing in Bible study, but as you might well imagine, the process is slow and tedious. If it were automated by tool-tipping, I could use this process for far more verses instead of the few selected crucial verses I've done by hand so far.

I suppose I could open up another Bible software program and type in the references one by one to get to them, instead of using my Cambridge Cameo Bible in hard copy, but looking the verse up in the hard copy Bible does have the advantage of providing an instant view of the immediate context, which often helps.

It might be possible that the collective wisdom represented here might provide better solutions to my difficulty so I can ultimately share the results with everyone interested in real Bible study.

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Graham Criddle | Forum Activity | Replied: Wed, Dec 28 2011 9:37 AM

Hi Jerome

I have thought of one possible approach - it takes a little work but is probably better than what you have now.

The first thing to do (assuming you are using Microsoft Office) is to enable Logos Smart Tags in Microsoft Word - see http://wiki.logos.com/Smart_Tags and http://www.logos.com/articleviewer/530

If you just search the "New Treasury of Scripture Knowledge" resource - as opposed to the entire library - you will just get the 53 articles you mentioned above.

Then use the "Print/Export" cpability - http://wiki.logos.com/Print$2fExport - to export the contents of the search panel to a Word document.

All of the correctly formed references (some won't work) will be created in your document with associated Smart Tags

This is shown by a red wavy line - when you hover over the reference you have a number of options including replacing the reference with the passage or opening a Bible to that point.

So you essentially get a Word document containing the results of your search with tagged references which you can either replace by the passage or open a Bible to check.

Hope this helps

Graham

PS: I think - but Logos would need to confirm - that the search function is behaving as designed and is unlikely to be changed as you are requesting.

 

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Keep Smiling 4 Jesus :) | Forum Activity | Replied: Wed, Dec 28 2011 10:40 AM

Jerome Smith:
As the Logos 4 program is now designed and configured, I must check the references listed in the search by hand to read them. It would be exceedingly helpful if the reference results that show the verse in parentheses would be tool tipped so I could read them instantly by hovering the mouse pointer over the reference, instead of checking them out by hand as I now do. I only check the most doctrinally or prophetically significant passages now because of how long it takes to follow the process.

Welcome Big Smile

Wonder about clicking highlighted verse in search results to send link to a New Treasury of Scripture Knowledge (NTSK) that has send hyperlinks here checked, which is also in a link set with desired Bible(s) ?

For example, one click on highlighted 9:17 search result in Chapter 26 changed location in a NTSK copy that also changed location in 2 Bibles linked with NTSK (via Link Set A):

In the NTSK resources, can hover mouse over verse reference for a pop-up.

By the way, appears De 26:11 is not currently in NTSK entry for Zc 9:17

Keep Smiling Smile

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Graham Criddle | Forum Activity | Replied: Wed, Dec 28 2011 10:42 AM

Keep Smiling 4 Jesus :):
Wonder about clicking highlighted verse in search results to send link to a New Treasury of Scripture Knowledge (NTSK) that has send hyperlinks here checked, which is also in a link set with desired Bible(s) ?

Now that's a very good idea, KS4J.

Well done!

 

 

Posts 171
Jerome Smith | Forum Activity | Replied: Wed, Dec 28 2011 12:24 PM

I think I can almost follow your suggestion to get the results from Logos 4 that I am seeking.

I never tried "clicking" on the blue heading like Deuteronomy 26 before. When I clicked, it opened the NTSK to that chapter, and I scrolled down to verse 11. 

I separately typed "Dt 26:11" in the Bible view panel, and of course it gave me the full verse to read.

I hovered the mouse over the highlighted "find" in the NTSK panel for Zc 9:17 so I could view both texts simultaneously.

That lets me know that, as you observed, the Dt 26:11 reference is not given at Zc 9:17, so I shall add it for the references given for the key words there,  is his goodness:

 

     17.  For how great.  Ps 36:8.  is his goodness.  Ex 33:19.  +34:6.  Dt 26:11.  Ps *23:6.  *31:19.  *33:5.  34:8.  36:7-9.  86:5, 15.  +136:1.  145:7, 8.  Is 63:7, 15.  Jn **3:16.  Ro **5:8, 20, 21.  Ep *1:7, 8.  2:4, 5.  3:18, 19.  T 3:4-7.  1 J *4:8-11.  how great is his beauty.  Ex 15:11.  1 K 10:7.  2 Ch 9:6.  Ps 45:2.  50:2.  90:17.  SS 1:16.  2:3, 4.  5:10-16.  Is 4:2.  33:17.  Jn *1:14.  2 C 4:4-6.  Re *5:12-14.  corn.  Ge 27:28.  Is 25:6.  62:8, 9.  65:13, 14.  Ezk 36:29.  Ho 2:21, 22.  Jl 2:26.  3:18.  Am 8:11-14.  *9:13, 14.  Ep *5:18, 19.  young men.  Ps 148:12, 13.  Is 9:17.  Am 8:13.  1 J *2:13.  cheerfulor, grow, or, speak.  or, flourish.  Zc 10:7.  Dt 26:11.  1 K 8:66.  2 Ch 6:41.  Ps 25:13.  65:13.  0:14.  SS 7:9.  Je 33:11.  Mt 17:4.  new wine.  Heb.  tirosh, Ge +27:28.  Nu 6:20.  15:5.  Is 25:6.  Mt 26:29.  Mk 14:25.  Lk 22:18.  Ac 2:13.  1 P 2:3.  maids.  Ge +24:16 (*S#1330h).

It is now given as the third reference following the key words is his goodness.

This might work somewhat more efficiently than the process I have used so far for only a very few select crucial verses. Now I can follow this procedure for more verses without consuming an inordinate amount of time in the process.

Can my procedure be streamlined? I will have to type in the Bible reference in the window for the Bible pane, but that should work. I don't see a way to link the windows directly to the parenthetical reference given for each find as, for "Chapter 26" to (Deuteronomy 26:11) as is given in the search results.

Thank you all for helping resolve my questions to use Logos 4 more efficiently.  Additional thoughts or suggestions are still  most welcome.

Posts 171
Jerome Smith | Forum Activity | Replied: Wed, Dec 28 2011 12:51 PM

Looking at the references more closely, the reference to Dt 26:11 is already given in my revision for the keyword cheerful. But another "find" that refers to 1 Kings 8:66 is not given, so it should go where I just had added the Dt 26:11 reference, to give:

 

     17.  For how great.  Ps 36:8.  is his goodness.  Ex 33:19.  +34:6.  1 K 8:66.  Ps *23:6.  *31:19.  *33:5.  34:8.  36:7-9.  86:5, 15.  +136:1.  145:7, 8.  Is 63:7, 15.  Jn **3:16.  Ro **5:8, 20, 21.  Ep *1:7, 8.  2:4, 5.  3:18, 19.  T 3:4-7.  1 J *4:8-11.  how great is his beauty.  Ex 15:11.  1 K 10:7.  2 Ch 9:6.  Ps 45:2.  50:2.  90:17.  SS 1:16.  2:3, 4.  5:10-16.  Is 4:2.  33:17.  Jn *1:14.  2 C 4:4-6.  Re *5:12-14.  corn.  Ge 27:28.  Is 25:6.  62:8, 9.  65:13, 14.  Ezk 36:29.  Ho 2:21, 22.  Jl 2:26.  3:18.  Am 8:11-14.  *9:13, 14.  Ep *5:18, 19.  young men.  Ps 148:12, 13.  Is 9:17.  Am 8:13.  1 J *2:13.  cheerfulor, grow, or, speak.  or, flourish.  Zc 10:7.  Dt 26:11.  1 K 8:66.  2 Ch 6:41.  Ps 25:13.  65:13.  90:14.  SS 7:9.  Je 33:11.  Mt 17:4.  new wine.  Heb.  tirosh, Ge +27:28.  Nu 6:20.  15:5.  Is 25:6.  Mt 26:29.  Mk 14:25.  Lk 22:18.  Ac 2:13.  1 P 2:3.  maids.  Ge +24:16 (*S#1330h).

Were you to compare these references for Zechariah 9:17 you would see they already are more complete than the references given in The New Treasury of Scripture Knowledge. I believe many students of God's Word would appreciate having even more complete references for every verse than the references I provided for the New Treasury of Scripture Knowledge, which itself is far more complete than the original Treasury of Scripture Knowledge. Note also I caught an error: reference to Ps 0:14 should read Ps 90:14, now corrected in this "copy and paste" post of my work on this text.

Again, thank you for your most helpful suggestions and pointers today.

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Graham Criddle | Forum Activity | Replied: Wed, Dec 28 2011 2:02 PM

Hi Jerome

Jerome Smith:
Can my procedure be streamlined? I will have to type in the Bible reference in the window for the Bible pane, but that should work. I don't see a way to link the windows directly to the parenthetical reference given for each find as, for "Chapter 26" to (Deuteronomy 26:11) as is given in the search results.

What KS4J is suggesting - I believe - is that you don't click on the chapter heading but the "search hit" such as the example in the diagram below

If you have a copy of NTSK open with "Send Hyperlinks here" selected (as below):

this will open the correct page in NTSK:

If you also have a Bible open in the same link set - "E" in the screenshot above then it will move to the correct reference.

So, if I properly understand what you are trying to do, this should give you what you need automatically.

Graham

Posts 171
Jerome Smith | Forum Activity | Replied: Wed, Dec 28 2011 4:02 PM

Dear Graham,

Thank you for sticking with me today. I believe that you and another poster have now enabled me to do what I wish to do using the Logos 4 to search for reciprocal references in The New Treasury of Scripture Knowledge.

I have been able, just now, to come pretty close to setting up my screen to be like what you have portrayed.

I have not yet been able to get the search menu to restrict itself to only The New Treasury of Scripture Knowledge as both of you have been able to do. I clicked on the highlighted text in the search line for "search in" and a drop down list gave such options as "all resources" and "only open resources," going by  memory of what I saw. I selected "only open resources," and had only the New Treasury of Scripture Knowledge open. The search also included my "favorite Bibles" along with it, but that poses no problem. When I looked further in the drop down list, it gave many items that are like sets of works, but at this time it did not list The New Treasury of Scripture Knowledge as a selectable option.

How did you select it as a single, discrete option?

Thank you again for helping me work around what I wished for as a new feature in Logos 4. I may, as a result, be able to place many more good cross references in the verses I'm working on drawn from the reciprocal references found in The New Treasury of Scripture Knowledge as a result.

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Graham Criddle | Forum Activity | Replied: Wed, Dec 28 2011 4:12 PM

Hi Jerome, glad it is starting to work for you and credit to KS4J for coming up with the idea.

In terms of searching a specific resource when you open the " search in" box there should be a typable text box (I am not at my desktop at the moment so can't show it).

You can type the name of a reference there, NTSK would get what you want.

For more information about customing the search box please see http://wiki.logos.com/Basic_Search

Hope this helps

Graham

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Mark Barnes | Forum Activity | Replied: Wed, Dec 28 2011 4:47 PM

I'd like to add one more tip to the ones already given. Once you have the first search result open (to Genesis 27:28 in this case), you can use the search result arrows to more quickly move to the next results, without moving back to the search pane.

You can see how to do this here: http://wiki.logos.com/Navigating_a_Resource_$28controls_in_the_Locator_bar$29#Search_Navigation_choice

This is my personal Faithlife account. On 1 March 2022, I started working for Faithlife, and have a new 'official' user account. Posts on this account shouldn't be taken as official Faithlife views!

Posts 171
Jerome Smith | Forum Activity | Replied: Wed, Dec 28 2011 5:41 PM

Dear Graham and all,

Thanks indeed are due to KS4J. I didn't mention KS4J because when writing a new response previous posts were obscured, and I could not scroll up to see who had made the good suggestion. But for me, your explanations and diagrams helped me to understand what KS4J had suggested.

Logos 4 was indexing my collection, which had just been updated, and that may be why NTSK did not appear as a single selectable search source option earlier today. Now, when I went back, that option mysteriously appeared in the drop-down list!

My open screen in Logos now has the search results pane in the left half of the screen. The upper right is the Bible text. The lower right has the associated portion of the NTSK showing.

I tried looking into what Mark Barnes just suggested, but the settings to use the up and down arrows did not work for me--they went to somewhere  else on their own, not the next passage in the search results list. But since the results are all immediately visible in the left half of  the screen, it is not hard to simply click in the found text in the next search result.

Thanks again to all of you for helping me get this all figured out today. Now I should be able to make use of reciprocal references as I  enhance my collection of cross references originally developed for the New Treasury of Scripture Knowledge.

I also created Nelson's Cross Reference Guide to the Bible, which is available in book form. The Cross Reference Guide has all the cross references given in the NTSK but, for the most part, without the notes. I consolidated the  cross references to eliminate duplication of references at other verses on the  same theme or  subject, linking them with the + symbol to a main reference point for nearly 2000 topics and themes. This was done to shrink the size of the volume to make it more portable. The process I used to do this consolidation permitted me to reduce the number of cross references without losing any of the original Scripture links. The format is also improved, making it easier to consult  the references. The CRG actually has more cross references than the NTSK does. At a very few places, notably at Romans 15:7, I greatly increased the number of cross references available.

I have written a discussion or informal commentary on the cross references to Romans 15:7 at my little blog at www.realbiblestudy.com. You can also Google "Romans 15:7" or "Romans 15:7 cross references with comments" and Google will bring up my site, I'm sure.

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Simon’s Brother | Forum Activity | Replied: Wed, Dec 28 2011 5:47 PM

Jerome Smith:
my book, The New Treasury of Scripture Knowledge (yes, I am the author of that volume, Jerome Smith),

Thanks for you work on this title Jerome.

Jerome Smith:
So, unless someone knows an easier method to find reciprocal references in a format that I can read

The method I would recommend is close to KS4J with a slight variaton.

From search results window click on highlighted reference for Zc 9:17 to open the NTSK.  Open the power lookup from the tools menu, you can either choose to link as I have done or simply use the follow option.   This will then automatically display the text of each verse referenced in NTSK using your default bible.

If you want to limit what Power Lookup displays, simply highlight the portion of NTSK you want to focus on and only this will be displayed in power lookup as shown in the screen shot.

You can then go a step further and click on the copy button on the Power lookup and then add to passage list from clipboard  the list of verses into a passage list, this way you can build up a list of verses you have chosen including viewing in translation(s) of your choice.

 

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Graham Criddle | Forum Activity | Replied: Thu, Dec 29 2011 12:25 AM

Hi Andrew

If I understand what Jerome is looking for correctly, I don't think the Power Lookup approach works. It is a great mechanism for showing the verses that are referenced in a particular section but I think Jerome is looking for the verse which the section is talking about. So, in your example, I think he wants the verse Ps 148:12 (or 13) as opposed to the verses to which that Psalm refer.

Jerome, Andrew's screenshot does show something else interesting. That while the search engine returns a hit on Ps 148:12 (as per the search panel) you can see that there is a hit in Ps 148:13 as well (it is highlighted when NTSK is opened to that point).

This will go back to the fact that the search shows 61 results in 53 articles - so some articles (which I assume are chapters in this case) contain more than one reference. You can see this by noting the small "2x" to the top right of the result string. When you see this in the search window, be sure to check the whole NTSK chapter to check all the references.

Graham

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Keep Smiling 4 Jesus :) | Forum Activity | Replied: Thu, Dec 29 2011 2:39 AM

Jerome Smith:

Looking at the references more closely, the reference to Dt 26:11 is already given in my revision for the keyword cheerful. But another "find" that refers to 1 Kings 8:66 is not given, so it should go where I just had added the Dt 26:11 reference, to give:

 

 

     17.  For how greatPs 36:8is his goodnessEx 33:19.  +34:6.  1 K 8:66.  Ps *23:6.  *31:19.  *33:5.  34:8.  36:7-9.  86:5, 15.  +136:1.  145:7, 8.  Is 63:7, 15.  Jn **3:16.  Ro **5:8, 20, 21.  Ep *1:7, 8.  2:4, 5.  3:18, 19.  T 3:4-7.  1 J *4:8-11.  how great is his beautyEx 15:111 K 10:7.  2 Ch 9:6Ps 45:250:290:17.  SS 1:16.  2:3, 4.  5:10-16.  Is 4:233:17.  Jn *1:14.  2 C 4:4-6.  Re *5:12-14.  cornGe 27:28Is 25:662:8, 965:13, 14Ezk 36:29Ho 2:21, 22Jl 2:263:18Am 8:11-14.  *9:13, 14.  Ep *5:18, 19.  young menPs 148:12, 13Is 9:17Am 8:131 J *2:13.  cheerfulor, grow, or, speak.  or, flourish.  Zc 10:7Dt 26:111 K 8:66.  2 Ch 6:41Ps 25:1365:13.  90:14.  SS 7:9.  Je 33:11Mt 17:4new wine.  Heb.  tirosh, Ge +27:28.  Nu 6:2015:5Is 25:6Mt 26:29Mk 14:25Lk 22:18Ac 2:131 P 2:3.  maids.  Ge +24:16 (*S#1330h).

Were you to compare these references for Zechariah 9:17 you would see they already are more complete than the references given in The New Treasury of Scripture Knowledge. I believe many students of God's Word would appreciate having even more complete references for every verse than the references I provided for the New Treasury of Scripture Knowledge, which itself is far more complete than the original Treasury of Scripture Knowledge. Note also I caught an error: reference to Ps 0:14 should read Ps 90:14, now corrected in this "copy and paste" post of my work on this text.

 

Noticed your revision of NTSK has Ex 33:19, which is missing in the 2002 NTSK version in my Logos library.  For grins, added old TSK above search and linked with NTSK so could view same verse in both resources.

Personally have the Logos 2002 version of NTSK in screen shot.  In your library, could use Personal Book instead of NTSK (with option to have "old" NTSK above search results for comparison with revision).  Once I could click a search result, added couple Bibles to link with click plus one Bible not in link set for contextual reference of verse (e.g. Zc 9:17).

Thanks to Graham for elaborating how to use. Geeked

Thanks to Andrew for Passage List example. Cool

Keep Smiling Smile

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