Slow Logos 4

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Damian McGrath | Forum Activity | Replied: Tue, Nov 10 2009 7:11 AM

Thomas Black:
I'm sure Dave L. hasn't blocked you us because of the comic relief we provide.

Thread hijacking again - but, the high point was really the Lasagne Daily Devotional. I'm very proud of that one....

Or maybe the Carebear :)

Posts 8660
TCBlack | Forum Activity | Replied: Tue, Nov 10 2009 7:16 AM

Damian McGrath:
Thread hijacking again
Yeah, Sorry.  Kind of.

Hmm Sarcasm is my love language. Obviously I love you. 

Posts 2212
Damian McGrath | Forum Activity | Replied: Tue, Nov 10 2009 7:24 AM

Thomas Black:

Damian McGrath:
Thread hijacking again
Yeah, Sorry.  Kind of.

 

No - I should have put that in tags - I meant I was thread hijacking - not you!

 

Posts 687
Jon | Forum Activity | Replied: Tue, Nov 10 2009 7:26 AM

JeffreySGordon:

By the way, I have an 8GB Quad-core I7 notebook on order.  Will that be fast enough?  Stay tuned...

Definitely, so long as you stay plugged into a wall Big Smile

Posts 187
Rev. D. | Forum Activity | Replied: Tue, Nov 10 2009 7:41 AM

Rick, thanks for asking the question. I have a new desktop with 4 gb of RAM and a 640 GB hard drive. Unfortunately, Logos 4 runs really slow almost to the point that I, too, thought I'd made a mistake in the setup. While I understand all of the comments posted throughout the various blogs concerning this issue, hardware cannot be the only explaination. None of my other programs run as slow as Logos 4. I do hope that Logos is reading the various user concerns and is pro-active in finding a solution. From what I've seen thus far, I truly do believe this is the case. I'm hoping for future updates quickly. Have a blessed day!

Christina

iMac 27 inch, 3.1 GHz Core i5, 1T HD, 4 GB RAM

 

Posts 4508
Robert Pavich | Forum Activity | Replied: Tue, Nov 10 2009 7:55 AM

Rev,

that sounds like it should be fine...see the specs in my sig...mine runs like a champ...

When you say "slow to the point of made a mistake"  what operations are you performing that are like that?

be specific?

Robert Pavich

For help go to the Wiki: http://wiki.logos.com/Table_of_Contents__

Posts 449
Bill Cook | Forum Activity | Replied: Tue, Nov 10 2009 8:04 AM

As far as fast computers to run L4, the HP Envy should fit the bill. I know we should should not glorify 'envy', but this thing is aptly named and powerful, or sounds to be...

  • Windows 7 Home Premium 64-bit
  • Intel(R) Core(TM) i7-720QM Processor (1.6GHz, 6MB L2 Cache, 1333MHz FSB) - this is a quad core processor (I'm sure many of you know this)
  • 6GB DDR3 System Memory (3 Dimm)
  • 1GB ATI Mobility Radeon(TM) HD 4830
  • 500GB 7200 RPM SATA drive
  • 15.6" diagonal Full High Definition LED HP Ultra Brightview Widescreen Display (1920x1080)
  • Intel Wireless-N Mini-card with Bluetooth
  • The caveat is you have to buy an external optical drive- but that what gives it the room for all the other goodies

     

    Posts 514
    John Duffy | Forum Activity | Replied: Tue, Nov 10 2009 9:02 AM

    I too find that Logos 4 is really slow.  I've saved a few layouts, for different Bible passages that I'm working on, and with no searches or lookups being displayed by default on each layout (i.e. no passage being looked up for commentaries, cross-references, biblical people etc.), it takes one layout 5-8 seconds to change and another 15-20 seconds to change.  This is sloooow, quite apart from lookup or search speed.  But switching to the home page is virtually instant in comparison, taking about 1s to scroll up or down. And 3s or more to switch to reading mode (F11) is slow too, but is longer at 4-5s if I have Logos 4 maximised while it re-sizes up and down etc.

    I'm using a less than two year old Dell Vostro 1710 laptop with Intel dual core T5870 @ 2.00 GHz, with 3Gb RAM, integrated Intel 965 graphics, 5400rpm 160GB HD with 40% free, recently defraged, and nothing else above a few percent in task manager when it is changing layouts, while Logos 4 stays up at 50% for the duration while it's changing layout.  Shame it doesn't use both cores.  I've also shutdown PC Tools' Spyware Doctor which has made no difference.  And it stopped indexing several days ago.  Regardless of the specs, Logos 3 was faster to use, apart from searching the whole library.  Logos 4 is really great, but it tends to take a bit of the enthusiasm out of Bible study for me, and I have to be in a pretty laid back mood to not get a little frustrated with it sometimes.  I also use some fast free software at the same time, for looking up passages. 

    Posts 6720
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    Lynden Williams | Forum Activity | Replied: Tue, Nov 10 2009 10:30 AM

    John Duffy:

     I've also shutdown PC Tools' Spyware Doctor which has made no difference.  And it stopped indexing several days ago.  Regardless of the specs, Logos 3 was faster to use, apart from searching the whole library.  Logos 4 is really great, but it tends to take a bit of the enthusiasm out of Bible study for me, and I have to be in a pretty laid back mood to not get a little frustrated with it sometimes.  I also use some fast free software at the same time, for looking up passages. 

    "Free software"? Which ones. Right away I raise a red flag. Are you certain it is not killing your bandwidth and as a result your CPU sending and receiving info based on what you are doing?

    It took my machine about 15-20 seconds to pull up this layout. Sounds like an average amount of time to me. If you need it to go faster, then invest in a digital harddrive. If you do, remeber to put on your seat belt, before turning on the computer.

    Lynden Williams Communications https://www.lyndenwilliams.net 

    Posts 4508
    Robert Pavich | Forum Activity | Replied: Tue, Nov 10 2009 10:54 AM

    SSD drive with this layout...and all of the highlighting...4 seconds...

    Robert Pavich

    For help go to the Wiki: http://wiki.logos.com/Table_of_Contents__

    Posts 514
    John Duffy | Forum Activity | Replied: Tue, Nov 10 2009 12:53 PM

    Lynden Williams:

    "Free software"? Which ones. Right away I raise a red flag. Are you certain it is not killing your bandwidth and as a result your CPU sending and receiving info based on what you are doing?

    It took my machine about 15-20 seconds to pull up this layout. Sounds like an average amount of time to me. If you need it to go faster, then invest in a digital harddrive. If you do, remeber to put on your seat belt, before turning on the computer.

    Lynden, at the time of testing how long it took for layouts to come up, I didn't have anything else open apart from Outlook.  Also, the free software I use (e-Sword, mainly to develop a free non-English resource for outreach purposes) doesn't send and receive info or hog bandwidth or CPU usage when it's idle and I'm not using it actively.  I find that it's useful sometimes to have a second program on a second monitor for just jumping around the Bible without disturbing my position in Logos.  But now that I can do that with a floating window, I might change how I do that. 

    But it's not the hard drive which is the issue.  It's hardly flashing.  It is the CPU activity which is the limiting factor (which I always see at the bottom right of the screen).  My layout below doesn't seem much different to yours too, hence the similar timing. Maybe in general I'm used to software taking about 5s max to do something minor, unless it is searching etc.  Am I applying that rule unfairly to Logos 4?  But it could be my integrated graphics that are the limiting factor, as that might make the CPU slow down - I'm not sure.  It's just slower than I'm used to compared to other software that I use.  But don't get me wrong, it's the best software for Bible and theological study that I've seen - I still love it.

    Wow, I hadn't heard of solid state drives before, at least in the last twenty years.  The first time I came across them was back in the mid 80's when I decided not to go for the ultra-expensive 256kB solid state drive option for my first computer.  Instead, I opted for the deluxe dual 5" floppy drives (instead of the standard single drive) for my CP/M 2.2 operating system (which predated DOS).  SSD will certainly speed some things up - I think that I'll wait until the prices drop further and in the meantime skip the option of a 7600rpm drive for my laptop.

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    Rich DeRuiter | Forum Activity | Replied: Tue, Nov 10 2009 4:33 PM

    John Duffy:
    I'm using a less than two year old Dell Vostro 1710 laptop with Intel dual core T5870 @ 2.00 GHz, with 3Gb RAM, integrated Intel 965 graphics,

    Just making an observation: as I have been reading various posts about Logos4 being slow, it's either because they are running Logos for windows on a Mac, or because the user has a system with integrated video. While some systems with integrated video seem to work well, it seems like the ones having problems with speed in L4 have integrated video.

    Is anyone having problems with Logos speed who is not running L4 on a Mac, nor with integrated video?

    Integrated video puts video chips on the motherboard and lets the CPU and onboard RAM process video calls. Video cards (AKA 'dedicated video') with their own video processors and their own RAM seem to do much better with Logos4.

    Anyway, I'm just testing a theory here.

     Help links: WIKI;  Logos 6 FAQ. (Phil. 2:14, NIV)

    Posts 115
    Steve Sando | Forum Activity | Replied: Tue, Nov 10 2009 4:47 PM

    Hey I'm one of the Sloooowww ones too.

    I'd like to mention that what I'm seeing is not related to virtual memory thrashing (not enough memory).

    It is not related to video display and drivers (that shows up as painful scrolling).

    My system is nice and crisp with L3 and MS Office and everything else. However, running only L4 my CPU goes to >50% just typing 4 letters in the Notes box. There is something else going on, besides the amount of hardware I have.  This kind of problem is not the sort of thing you get with a slow video card, unless the software is re-painting the entire screen with every keystroke!

    This thread is presenting a common theme: Some people are having a serious performance problem and some aren't.

     

    Posts 41
    Rick Goettsche | Forum Activity | Replied: Tue, Nov 10 2009 6:26 PM

    Richard, I certainly understand that integrated video is not ideal for graphics-intensive operations. Correct me if I'm wrong, but aren't almost all laptops (outside of something like an Alienware) using integrated video? If your theory is correct, then it still seems strange to me that Logos would design their software so that it would not run properly on the vast majority of laptops.

    For the record, my understanding is that the integrated card in my computer (a Radeon HD3200) actually does have some dedicated memory (256 MB). Again, if that isn't correct, please let me know--I am not 100% sure that I understand that correctly. Anyway, if we can find some trends among people whose systems bring Logos 4 to a crawl, I'd love to see them (and I imagine the developers would too!) Thanks for your input.

    Posts 50
    Robert Lombardi | Forum Activity | Replied: Tue, Nov 10 2009 10:01 PM

    I would agree, that sounds like there's a bug in there somewhere, or just really bad coding. I hope that's not inherent to the way they designed Logos 4. I have a laptop with decent speed, but I am not interested in running my battery down and causing the CPU to heat up because of some cutting edge bells and whistle features. Perhaps there ways to shut off features that are eating up CPU cycles?

     

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    Rich DeRuiter | Forum Activity | Replied: Tue, Nov 10 2009 11:04 PM

    Rick Goettsche:
    Richard, I certainly understand that integrated video is not ideal for graphics-intensive operations. Correct me if I'm wrong, but aren't almost all laptops (outside of something like an Alienware) using integrated video? If your theory is correct, then it still seems strange to me that Logos would design their software so that it would not run properly on the vast majority of laptops.

    Not exactly. I already said that not everyone with integrated video has the slow down problem with L4. In fact my laptop is a pretty cheap Dell with integrated video and it works just fine.

    But those who are having slowdown problems seem to have that in common. Maybe there is a certain type of integrated video, that is having an issue. Maybe it's a certain chip set, or CPU, or kind of RAM (DDR, DDR2, etc) that makes the problem worse for some than others. Maybe I'm just way off.

    It seems a bit odd to me that integrated video would be the problem, but it does seem to be one thing that keeps coming up. On the other hand, since most lower to mid-level laptops have integrated, rather than dedicated video, there could be another common laptop issue that causes the problem. If so, it could be helpful to rule out the integrated video theory and look for a different common variable.

    I do think it would be helpful to try to find the common variable for those who are having the slow down issue, since most aren't, but many are.

    EDIT: BTW, I don't believe for a minute that Logos designed this to fail, or be unusable on any computer. I'm quite certain that this is an inadvertent 'side-effect' of some aspect of the program architecture. It's possible that knowing what slows it down for some computers could help rewrite the part of the program causing the issue.

     Help links: WIKI;  Logos 6 FAQ. (Phil. 2:14, NIV)

    Posts 4508
    Robert Pavich | Forum Activity | Replied: Tue, Nov 10 2009 11:48 PM

    Rich,

    I have integrated video also and my performance is acceptable....

     

    But then again...NOTHING is ever fast enough... Big Smile

    Robert Pavich

    For help go to the Wiki: http://wiki.logos.com/Table_of_Contents__

    Posts 41
    Rick Goettsche | Forum Activity | Replied: Wed, Nov 11 2009 2:28 PM

    Ok, so I had another thought about a possible commonality, though it still seems unlikely to me. Could there be some sort of issue with AMD processors? I noticed that the technical requirements state that a Core2Duo is the recommended processor. It could mean that the developers have Intel processors at the office. Could there be some sort of issue related to AMD processors/chipsets? Are those of you using Intel processors experiencing the same kind of sluggishness? Like I said, it doesn't seem to me like the brand of processors should make a difference, but I figured it couldn't hurt to ask.

    Posts 3578
    steve clark | Forum Activity | Replied: Wed, Nov 11 2009 3:45 PM

    Mine is slower and i am using an Intel Core 2 Duo

    QLinks, Bibl2, LLR, Macros
    Dell Insp 17-5748, i5, 1.7 GHz, 8G RAM, win 8.1

    Posts 2
    D. L. Cooper | Forum Activity | Replied: Wed, Nov 11 2009 5:05 PM

    Steve,

    Just wanted to let you know that I have a laptop that is less than a year old and I'm experiencing the same problems that all you guys are having.  I think the L4 release was premature.  Sounds like Logos has been taking lessons from Microsoft - letting the user find all the bugs.n Unless I see an effort from Logos to cleanup some of this mess  L4 is my last upgrade.

    dr dave

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