Dear fellow 'hackers' - a call for brainstorming solutions - timelines, parallel passages etc.

some hacking of XML files (making personal
timelines and parallel passages), and not much else.

To think - I've been an ancient hacker for years and never knew I'd hacked anything.[:O]

But now that I know I was perceived as hacking rather than simply supplementing inadequate resources in particular instances, I have a serious question. Do other users find the timelines and parallel text resource offerings inadequate? If so, how would you like to see if addressed?

Yes, I do know that the timeline request is in uservoice (twice if I remember correctly).

Find more posts tagged with

Comments

Bradley Grainger (Logos)

some hacking of XML files (making personal
timelines and parallel passages), and not much else.

To think - I've been an ancient hacker for years and never knew I'd hacked anything.

But now that I know I was perceived as hacking

If it wasn't clear, Bob was using "hack" in one of these senses (probably 1, 6, or maybe 2 [:)]), not in the sense of breaking or subverting computer security (see cracking).

MJ. Smith

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/324028#Comment_324028

If it wasn't clear, Bob was using "hack" in one of these senses (probably 1, 6, or maybe 2 ),

definitely 2[:D]

Dennis Parish

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/324064#Comment_324064

MJ,

Point of Information for a new Logos 4 user: Where are the user created parallel text resources located on the web? (I can't locate any in the Files forum.)

Also were are the reading guides you have created?

Thanks.

Graham Criddle

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/324415#Comment_324415

Hi Dennis

Not MJ but...

Also were are the reading guides you have created?

The Reading Lists - to which I think you may be referring - are at topics.logos.com

They can be accessed from within Logos 4 from the Tools menu as below:

Hope this helps

Graham

Mark Barnes

But now that I know I was perceived as hacking rather than simply supplementing inadequate resources in particular instances, I have a serious question. Do other users find the timelines and parallel text resource offerings inadequate? If so, how would you like to see if addressed?

I'd certainly like to dynamically insert Bible text into a Personal Book, so that users can choose their own versions, in the way that we get with Bible Harmonies, for example. I would have hoped that would be relatively easy to code.

I would imagine that coding the compilation of timelines would be much more tricky, unless Logos gave us the full documentation of their markup language so that we weren't restricted to the PBB version, but could code directly in their XML. If that facility exist, I'm sure plenty of us would use it for all kinds of imaginative uses.

fgh

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/324415#Comment_324415

Point of Information for a new Logos 4 user: Where are the user created parallel text resources located on the web? (I can't locate any in the Files forum.)

That's because they can't be used in Logos 4, only in Libronix 3 (which is what MJ and many of us wants to see fixed). Since I wasn't here in the days of L3 (and can't use it since I'm on Mac), I don't know if her work used to be posted somewhere. If you have a copy of L3 installed, you could try looking at http://www.stilltruth.com/page/libronix_pbb_files, which is one site that has lots of L3 files posted. Looks like there are at least some timelines.

Ken McGuire

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/324433#Comment_324433

But now that I know I was perceived as hacking rather than simply supplementing inadequate resources in particular instances, I have a serious question. Do other users find the timelines and parallel text resource offerings inadequate? If so, how would you like to see if addressed?

I'd certainly like to dynamically insert Bible text into a Personal Book, so that users can choose their own versions, in the way that we get with Bible Harmonies, for example. I would have hoped that would be relatively easy to code.

I would imagine that coding the compilation of timelines would be much more tricky, unless Logos gave us the full documentation of their markup language so that we weren't restricted to the PBB version, but could code directly in their XML. If that facility exist, I'm sure plenty of us would use it for all kinds of imaginative uses.

I would like documentation of the interfaces for reference datatypes so that linking would be easier in personal books. I would also like more documentation about valid milestones for tagging personal books.

Graham Criddle

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/324454#Comment_324454

Hi Kenneth

I would like documentation of the interfaces for reference datatypes so that linking would be easier in personal books. I would also like more documentation about valid milestones for tagging personal books.

Have you seen the information at http://wiki.logos.com/Personal_Books?

Graham

Dennis Parish

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/324460#Comment_324460

I know this is a sore subject for some, but could you help me complete and correct the following table?

For a Collection of User Created:	Running in Libronix (Logos 3), Go To	Running in Logos 4, Go To
Reading plans	topics.logos.com
Personal books	http://www.stilltruth.com/page/libronix_pbb_files	Forum > Files (conversion to .docx format may be needed)
Timelines	http://www.stilltruth.com/topics/technology/libronix/timelines	Not Available @ Jan 12
Parallel text resources		Not Available @ Jan 12
Toolbars	http://www.stilltruth.com/topics/technology/libronix/toolbars
Diagrams	http://www.stilltruth.com/topics/technology/libronix/diagrams

fgh

Do other users find the timelines and parallel text resource offerings inadequate?

Desperately so! I never use either. The timelines are a joke, and as for parallels, I still have to use my hardback. Peisker's Synopsis is probably one of my 5-10 most used books, but compared to it, L4 is like writing on stone tablets...

For starters, timelines and parallells should essentially be features, rather than resources. Parallels should have the equivalent of show differences and show base text in Text Comparison, and a simple click above one column should transform that into the base text. Texts should show up reasonably parallel, line by line, even if one source uses 50 lines and the other 10. And sympathetic highlighting should work as far as possible.

Furthermore, it should also be possible to compare non-Bible texts: the Western Mass to the Eastern Divine Liturgy; NT Canticles to Jewish prayers, the Quran to the Bible, and so on.

Actually, the more I think of it, the more I realize that what I really want is an improved, expanded and adaptable Text Comparison, that really can compare different texts, not just different translations. And where I can turn on and off note files and filters.

For timelines I'm dreaming about a multidimensional 'layer upon layer' approach without [chronological] beginning or end, where you can add or remove whatever you want: kings, prophets, wars, foreign rulers, Bible books, important events, important people, Bible translations, you name it. And zoom in and out, both in time -- getting more or less detail -- and in place -- going from world history down to the City of David or the tel at Megiddo. If Logos provided the framework and the most basic historical events, we could then create and share 'layers' according to our interests, whether they be the dating of the OT books according to various scholars or the crusader kings and battles.

For Biblical People I'm dreaming of an adaptation to the standard GEDCOM format, so that one could export to a normal genealogical program, do some work there, and then reimport. Or create a GEDCOM file elsewhere of e g the relationships between all those early rabbis, or the rulers of some ancient kingdom, and import it into Logos. Coming to think of it, there are several basic features of normal genealogical programs that Biblical People would profit from implementing.

Ken McGuire

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/324460#Comment_324460

Hi Kenneth

I would like documentation of the interfaces for reference datatypes so that linking would be easier in personal books. I would also like more documentation about valid milestones for tagging personal books.

Have you seen the information at http://wiki.logos.com/Personal_Books?

Yes I have. It is quite limited. The only datatype information I have found is for the Bible type (or variants on it). If you are building personal books, it would be helpful to have a list of what all the available tags are.

I'm thinking of installing Visual Studio Express on my Logos machine to see if the API is documented there so that I know what I can tag... Admittedly, the information I want is not for everyone, but I wish it was on the wiki. My frustrations have been with dealing with the BookOfConcord type (which seems to be inconsistently used in Logos Book Of Concords) but it applies to others as well. If Personal Books are full Logos 4 books with all the tagging available of regular books, then it would be nice to know the options...

fgh

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/324485#Comment_324485

could you help me complete and correct the following table?

• As far as I know, the best source for L3 sentence diagrams is http://wiki.logos.com/Tools_and_Files_supplied_by_users#Sentence_Diagram_files.

• I believe L3 sentence diagrams can be imported into L4, if you have L3.

• Toolbars don't exist in L4.

• L4 PBs should rather say "conversion from .docx format is needed". Or, better still, " compilation from...".

• Reading plans cannot be imported into L4. I don't know about L3. They have nothing to do with topics.logos.com.

• Reading lists do, but they don't really belong in the chart. They're not imported like the other things are; they're an integral part of L4. Look at the ribbon on the Home Page and you'll find the most recently added/updated ones (if you haven't customized them away). And go to Tools > Reading Lists to see all of them. Topics.logos.com is just where they're created; you don't need to go there to see them. I don't know if they existed in L3.

TCBlack

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/324636#Comment_324636

I believe L3 sentence diagrams can be imported into L4, if you have L3.

Actually all that is needed is that you put the L3 diagrams in ... %my documents%/Libronix DLS/SentenceDiagrams

fgh

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/324639#Comment_324639

Actually all that is needed is that you put the L3 diagrams in ... %my documents%/Libronix DLS/SentenceDiagrams

In what?

TCBlack

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/324672#Comment_324672

Actually all that is needed is that you put the L3 diagrams in ... %my documents%/Libronix DLS/SentenceDiagrams

In what?

Let me try that again. :-)

Put the L3 diagram files in a directory called /Libronix DLS/SentenceDiagrams but put that inside the my documents directory. That's why I put the first part in Percentage markers - the way Windows defines a variable.

something like:

c:\users\<username>\My Documents\Libronix DLS\Sentence Diagrams\diagramfilegoeshere

then in L4 you can type import sentence diagrams in the command box.

fgh

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/324680#Comment_324680

the way Windows defines a variable

Sorry, I thought you would remember by now -- at least after a nudge -- that I'm on Mac... [;)]

I actually said that in my first post above. Not knowing whether Dennis is on PC or Mac, I made a point of mentioning that L3 can't be used on Mac (at least not natively), and for the same reason I put in that if clause (didn't know about your shortcut). But if you know of a way to import L3 diagrams into L4Mac without using Windows, I'll be happy to know.

fgh

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/324454#Comment_324454

I would like documentation of the interfaces for reference datatypes so that linking would be easier in personal books. I would also like more documentation about valid milestones for tagging personal books.

[Y]

For starters, I'm guessing Logos has already decided upon what abbreviations to use when updating those volumes of the ECF that now only have page references. It would be nice if they could release those now, and not force us to wait for each volume and then harvest the information from there.

TCBlack

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/324731#Comment_324731

Sorry, I thought you would remember by now -- at least after a nudge -- that I'm on Mac...

I actually said that in my first post above.

Whoops. Sorry no. I have a notoriously bad memory. Who are you?

Mark Barnes

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/324634#Comment_324634

The only datatype information I have found is for the Bible type (or variants on it). If you are building personal books, it would be helpful to have a list of what all the available tags are.

There's several long lists of datatypes linked from the PB article, but you have to scroll up to the "See also" box to find them. I'll update the Wiki to make them more obvious.

My frustrations have been with dealing with the BookOfConcord type (which seems to be inconsistently used in Logos Book Of Concords) but it applies to others as well.

The syntax is:

see [[Ordination and Vocation >> BookOfConcord:The Smalcald Articles: III, art. x]]

The way to find out what to put after "BookOfConcord:" is to find the bit that you want to link to in BOC, and do one of the following:

copy the location to clipboard, then extract the location from the resulting link,
or search for the current reference, then extract the location from the search syntax,
or copy the location from the reference box at the top of the resource

Ken McGuire

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/324787#Comment_324787

The only datatype information I have found is for the Bible type (or variants on it). If you are building personal books, it would be helpful to have a list of what all the available tags are.

There's several long lists of datatypes linked from the PB article, but you have to scroll up to the "See also" box to find them. I'll update the Wiki to make them more obvious.

I knew the list of datatypes was there, but as you said, not obvious... What I want is the interface information for those types so calls are formatted correctly. For BookOfConcord, I have found things that work for all but the oecumenical creeds and the catechisms. Sometime I will try what you suggest with clipboard. For what it is worth, I have generally used colons as the separator at all levels... And don't know if this is a Logos or Fortress issue, but the Kolb/Wengert could use much better tagging...

Mark Barnes

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/324796#Comment_324796

Sometime I will try what you suggest with clipboard.

I've now updated the Wiki with much more detailed instructions. Hopefully they'll help: http://wiki.logos.com/Personal_Books#Datatype_links

I have found things that work for all but the oecumenical creeds and the catechisms

Using the two methods now listed in the Wiki, a link to the first petition on the Lord's Prayer in the Small Catechism would look like this:

[[first petition >> BookOfConcord:Small Cat.: art. iii, par. 3]]

[[first petition >> BookOfConcord:The Small Catechism: art. iii, par. 3]]

Keep Smiling 4 Jesus :)

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/324485#Comment_324485

I know this is a sore subject for some, but could you help me complete and correct the following table?

For
a Collection of User Created:

Running
in Libronix (Logos 3), Go To

Running
in Logos 4, Go To

Reading plans

topics.logos.com

Personal books

http://www.stilltruth.com/page/libronix_pbb_files

Forum > Files (conversion to .docx format may be needed)

Timelines

http://www.stilltruth.com/topics/technology/libronix/timelines

Not Available @ Jan 12

Parallel text resources

Not Available @ Jan 12

Toolbars

http://www.stilltruth.com/topics/technology/libronix/toolbars

Diagrams

http://www.stilltruth.com/topics/technology/libronix/diagrams

For a Collection of User Created:	Running in Libronix (Logos 3), Go To	Running in Logos 4, Go To
Reading plans	topics.logos.com	Tools => Reading Lists
Personal books	http://www.stilltruth.com/page/libronix_pbb_files	Forum > Files (old Libronix PBB need conversion to docx; waiting for Logos Personal Book web site)
Timelines	http://www.stilltruth.com/topics/technology/libronix/timelines	Not Available @ Jan 12
Parallel text resources		Not Available @ Jan 12
Toolbars	http://www.stilltruth.com/topics/technology/libronix/toolbars	Forum => Files has some items; Logos 4 has shortcuts next to command (drag & drop)
Diagrams	http://www.stilltruth.com/topics/technology/libronix/diagrams	File => Sentence Diagram Import command

Wondering what is parallel text resources ? Logos 4 has link sets so resources can scroll together when the resources have same versification. Logos 4 has some timeline resources, but lacks Personal Book capability for building timelines.

Keep Smiling [:)]

fgh

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/324883#Comment_324883

KS4J, you too are mixing up Reading Plans with Reading Lists. [;)] See my post somewhere above.

Wondering what is parallel text resources ?

Also called harmonies. MJ and I don't like that word. [:)] As for linking, it doesn't work for the kind of things she and I want to do. See another of my posts above.

Keep Smiling 4 Jesus :)

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/324891#Comment_324891

KS4J, you too are mixing up Reading Plans with Reading Lists. See my post somewhere above.

Apologies: primarily looked at second column, then added corresponding Logos 4 item: e.g. Logos 4 reading lists use topics.logos.com web site.

• Reading plans cannot be imported into L4. I don't know about L3. They have nothing to do with topics.logos.com.

Logos 4 can import Passage Lists and Prayer Lists from Libronix 3, but not reading plans. Logos 4 has File => Reading Plan option to create Reading Plan(s).

Keep Smiling [:)]

Keep Smiling 4 Jesus :)

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/324433#Comment_324433

But now that I know I was perceived as hacking rather than simply supplementing inadequate resources in particular instances, I have a serious question. Do other users find the timelines and parallel text resource offerings inadequate? If so, how would you like to see if addressed?

I'd certainly like to dynamically insert Bible text into a Personal Book, so that users can choose their own versions, in the way that we get with Bible Harmonies, for example. I would have hoped that would be relatively easy to code.

I would imagine that coding the compilation of timelines would be much more tricky, unless Logos gave us the full documentation of their markup language so that we weren't restricted to the PBB version, but could code directly in their XML. If that facility exist, I'm sure plenty of us would use it for all kinds of imaginative uses.

Being able to have Bible version(s) in a Personal Book for comparison of passages would be awesome.

For starters, timelines and parallells should essentially be features, rather than resources. Parallels should have the equivalent of show differences andshow base text in Text Comparison, and a simple click above one column should transform that into the base text. Texts should show up reasonably parallel, line by line, even if one source uses 50 lines and the other 10. And sympathetic highlighting should work as far as possible.

Furthermore, it should also be possible to compare non-Bible texts: the Western Mass to the Eastern Divine Liturgy; NT Canticles to Jewish prayers, the Quran to the Bible, and so on.

Actually, the more I think of it, the more I realize that what I really want is an improved, expanded and adaptable Text Comparison, that really can compare different texts, not just different translations. And where I can turn on and off note files and filters.

Logos 4 Text comparison can be used for Original Language comparison. Concur with interest to compare various Talmud translations and other texts (e.g. didache).

For parallel text ("harmonies"), wonder about using tables in docx for Personal Books ?

For timelines I'm dreaming about a multidimensional 'layer upon layer' approach without [chronological] beginning or end, where you can add or remove whatever you want: kings, prophets, wars, foreign rulers, Bible books, important events, important people, Bible translations, you name it. And zoom in and out, both in time -- getting more or less detail -- and in place -- going from world history down to the City of David or the tel at Megiddo. If Logos provided the framework and the most basic historical events, we could then create and share 'layers' according to our interests, whether they be the dating of the OT books according to various scholars or the crusader kings and battles.

Wonder about three dimensional view ? (with zoom in/out and rotation)

Also wonder about a three dimensional map with pop-up's to show timeline for various events at that location ?

Keep Smiling [:)]

David Sloan

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/325667#Comment_325667

For starters, timelines and parallells should
essentially be features, rather than resources. Parallels should have
the equivalent of show differences andshow base text in
Text Comparison, and a simple click above one column should transform
that into the base text. Texts should show up reasonably parallel, line
by line, even if one source uses 50 lines and the other 10. And
sympathetic highlighting should work as far as possible.
Furthermore, it should also be possible to compare non-Bible texts:
the Western Mass to the Eastern Divine Liturgy; NT Canticles to Jewish
prayers, the Quran to the Bible, and so on.

Actually, the more I think of it, the more I realize that what I
really want is an improved, expanded and adaptable Text Comparison, that
really can compare different texts, not just different translations.
And where I can turn on and off note files and filters.

YES! The current capabilities make my job much more difficult than it could be. I am finding a lot of limitations when I am trying to highlight the synoptic gospels in NA27 (http://community.logos.com/forums/p/43938/327527.aspx#327527 ). I would like multiple windows of NA27 to be able to track together so if I go to Mark 14:22 in one window, for example, my NA27 window that is open to Matthew will go to Matt 26:26–29 and my NA27 window that is open to Luke will move to Luke 22:18–20. I also would like my personal book with a reconstruction of Q to jump to the appropriate passage when I navigate there in Matthew or Luke. And it would be nice if I didn't have to highlight all the similarities myself. I wish Logos could tell me when a word is identical in one gospel to another. Plus Aland's synopsis is difficult to work with. If I link it to a window of NA27, when I go to a passage in NA27, if I want to see farther down on the page in Aland and I scroll down it will switch my linked NA27 window to Matthew's version when I may have been using it to see Mark's or Luke's version.