Arcing

Please accept my apologies in advance if this is a really stupid question, but I was wondering if it was possible to use Logos 4 for arcing (something that I am trying to get my head around)?

I have tried using the visual filters to highlight prepositions, but although there is an option in the scroll down menu (when creating visual filters) it doesn't seem to do anything (there is no suffix after the @ symbol).

I have also tried using the passage analysis tool, but it seems that word trees can only be organised around a particular word and not according to the grammar.

I was wondering if I was missing something, doing something wrong or attempting the impossible.

I upgraded from Gold to Platinum, but am still fairly new to Logos (I didn't really get beyond the basics in version 3).

I should also confess that I am a beginner in the original languages, so please go easy if I have asked something that is really silly.

I really appreciate the advice and assistance proffered elsewhere on this forum, it has made the switch to Logos 4 (with is fantastic, by the way) a lot simpler than it could have been.

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spitzerpl

The best way to build your search term is to build it in a morph search and then copy and paste your string into a visual filter. The drop down box that helps you build the syntax int eh visual filter is not yet implemented. For instance, to highlight prepositions in the NA27 use @P?, to highlight them in the NKJV, use @P. I used the morph search box to discover the syntax.

It was not a stupid question at all. I'm glad you asked!

Robert Pavich

Andrew...

You are among friends here... There are no dumb questions...only dumb people...

Just kidding. [:O]

I've seen Arcing; I wasn't incredibly thrilled like some are...I'm a "Kellogg Stick Diagram" person...or a "Mounce type" diagrammer...but Arcing just didn't thrill me...sorry.

As far as I know...they haven't even discussed it. Their sentence diagrams are coming back in the near future though...

As far as the visual filters go...you have to make sure that you're in a "morph" mode...when you click "visual filters" you could still be in a bible filter mode, or a basic filter mode...so make sure...

See the pic...this should explain it.

spitzerpl

There are no dumb questions...only dumb people...

HEY! I resemble that remark!

Andy

Ha... I am afraid that also applies to me!

I have just tried as per your kind suggestions and everything is working and I am ready to start arcing away...

Thanks very much for the assistance, it is greatly appreciated.

God Bless,

Andy

Jacob Hantla

There is no diagramming yet in logos 4. I hope that they give us the ability to do arcing well when they implement diagramming down the road.

More about arcing can be found at

http://biblearc.com/
Schreiner's Interpreting the Pauline Epistles: libronixdls:jump|pos=LLS-AOL:0<FIG2>.0.0|res=LLS:INTRPTPLNEP
http://www.desiringgod.org/ResourceLibrary/AskPastorJohn/ByTopic/54/3880_What_is_arcing_and_why_is_it_important/
etc

MJ. Smith

"Mounce type" diagrammer

Pardon my ignorance ... what is a Mounce diagram? I did a brief search on the web and failed to find an example ... which likely means I didn't know what I was looking for.

davidphillips

MJ,

It's not a technical term [:)]. If you have the book "Diagrammatical Analysis" in your library, that should give you a good idea of the type of diagram he's talking about. At least, I'm pretty sure that's a good example of Reed-Kellog stick diagramming. Bob can correct me if I'm wrong.

MJ. Smith

I'm pretty sure that's a good example of Reed-Kellog stick diagramming

Ah, Reed-Kellog diagrams I am familar with although I'm a tree-hugger when it comes to detailed diagrams. I also understand the indented (purhaps with arrows) flow diagrams and arcing. But can anyone tell me what kind of diagrams these symbols are for?

or the name / "rules" of this form?

Russ Quinn

There is no diagramming yet in logos 4. I hope that they give us the ability to do arcing well when they implement diagramming down the road.

More about arcing can be found at

http://biblearc.com/

Schreiner's Interpreting the Pauline Epistles: libronixdls:jump|pos=LLS-AOL:0<FIG2>.0.0|res=LLS:INTRPTPLNEP

http://www.desiringgod.org/ResourceLibrary/AskPastorJohn/ByTopic/54/3880_What_is_arcing_and_why_is_it_important/

etc

Can highly recommend Dr. Schreiner's method.

Robert Lombardi

I'm also interesting in Arcing, I haven't tried it yet. I also saw those videos by John Piper saying that he's been using it for decades and it's been an immense help for him. If you've watched his Battling Unbelief videos it appears that he's teaching the scriptures and showing relationships between Scripture that he's learned through using the Arc method. It looks like a very powerful tool for studying Scripture. By they way, the Battling Unbelief series is incredible.

Wes Saad

There are no dumb questions...only dumb people...

I really wish you people would stop talking about me.

DHG

Unless I'm mistaken, arcing isn't the same as sentence diagramming; it is proposition diagramming. It would be so helpful to have both tools available in L4...

MJ. Smith

There is an online arcing site with online software with export capabilities and a decent tutorial.

Jacob Hantla

Unless I'm mistaken, arcing isn't the same as sentence diagramming; it is proposition diagramming. It would be so helpful to have both tools available in L4...

Arcing is propositional diagramming, so not sentence diagramming proper. But usually on here when people talk about "sentence diagramming" we're just referring to diagrams that involve words that help us via visual representation to make sense of the text. This seems consistent with the tools that Logos provided in L3 and are hopefully aiming at which would at a minimum involve the traditional "sentence diagram", block diagramming, and arcing.

MJ. Smith

Arcing is propositional diagramming, so not sentence diagramming proper.

You are more or less correct. However, there is another sense of "propositional diagramming" which uses proposition in a more technical sense. To me, arcing frequently resembles most closely a clause/phrase diagram. It is a rather strange but useful beast.

Jacob Hantla

It is a rather strange but useful beast.

I agree. I've had passages where I couldn't get my mind around them become pretty darn crystal clear and memorable by forcing myself to work through arcing. Very helpful tool; I'm glad I learned it. It not only helped my Bible study, but I think it has even helped my thinking processes. Highly recommended if you're unfamiliar with it, especially for anything Pauline (and very helpful for Hebrews & Peter too)

si_cochran

There is no diagramming yet in logos 4. I hope that they give us the ability to do arcing well when they implement diagramming down the road.

More about arcing can be found at

http://biblearc.com/

Schreiner's Interpreting the Pauline Epistles: libronixdls:jump|pos=LLS-AOL:0<FIG2>.0.0|res=LLS:INTRPTPLNEP

http://www.desiringgod.org/ResourceLibrary/AskPastorJohn/ByTopic/54/3880_What_is_arcing_and_why_is_it_important/

etc

You can find a free PDF of Schreiner's chapter on "Tracing the Argument" (or "Arcing") at the SBTS website http://www.sbts.edu/documents/tschreiner/book_IPE_chapter6.pdf . I learned this method from Schreiner himself in Intro to the NT: Acts-Rev at Seminary. This has proved to be an invaluable tool in exegesis, and I would love for it to be incorporated in Logos. However, there are two ways to trace the relationships between propositions: bracketing and arcing (see Schreiner). Schreiner uses brackets, so I learned how to trace the argument with brackets. I tried using the arcs on www.biblearc.com, but could not visually see the relationships. Therefore, if this is in fact incorporated, please incorporate both bracketing and arcing.

Kolen Cheung

It would be good to have an arcing correspondence of HDNT.

Ryan

I also wish that Logos had a built in Arcing plugin or module.

I use biblearc.com, but I wish my arcs were accessible within Logos, and maybe even linked to the portion of scripture that is arc'd

si_cochran

I also wish that Logos had a built in Arcing plugin or module.

The sentence diagram module can actually be used for arcing (or tracing the argument). Choose text flow diagram and the passage you wish to arc or trace, then you will be able to break up the propositions and connect them with arcs or brackets. Labeling the connections requires typing out the appropriate letters and moving them to their designated location. It really works quite well, though I wish that Logos would include the proposition labels as prefigured options like biblearc.com. I use it for all of my arcing/tracing.

NB.Mick

The sentence diagram module can actually be used for arcing (or tracing the argument). Choose text flow diagram and the passage you wish to arc or trace, then you will be able to break up the propositions and connect them with arcs or brackets. Labeling the connections requires typing out the appropriate letters and moving them to their designated location. It really works quite well, though I wish that Logos would include the proposition labels as prefigured options like biblearc.com. I use it for all of my arcing/tracing.

Sinve I don't recall having heard of this method before (thanks for the link to Schreiner's pdf) and others who know it don't see how the Logos sentence diagramming can be used for it, may I ask you to post a screenshot or two, to show us how it looks? If you don't mind, you can also post a diagram of an "arced" sentence, as others do for the diagrams, to get the feel of it.

Thanks, Mick

si_cochran

The sentence diagram module can actually be used for arcing (or tracing the argument). Choose text flow diagram and the passage you wish to arc or trace, then you will be able to break up the propositions and connect them with arcs or brackets. Labeling the connections requires typing out the appropriate letters and moving them to their designated location. It really works quite well, though I wish that Logos would include the proposition labels as prefigured options like biblearc.com. I use it for all of my arcing/tracing.

Sinve I don't recall having heard of this method before (thanks for the link to Schreiner's pdf) and others who know it don't see how the Logos sentence diagramming can be used for it, may I ask you to post a screenshot or two, to show us how it looks? If you don't mind, you can also post a diagram of an "arced" sentence, as others do for the diagrams, to get the feel of it.

Thanks, Mick

For an explanation of Tracing/Arcing, see John Piper's video http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BYcsXanMlvM&feature=player_embedded. Piper also has a free booklet on Tracing/Arcing in PDF format http://cdn.desiringgod.org/pdf/booklets/BTBX.pdf. The BibleArc website has some helpful tutorial videos and examples http://www.biblearc.com. With Piper and others, I cannot fully express the value of this method for understanding the biblical text, particularly in epistolary literature. Thus, this is a method worth learning, and will bear much exegetical fruit. The method is really best learned by doing. The very best way to accomplish this, is to Trace/Arc the biblical text and compare your work with others who know the method. This is where the examples of BibleArc.com come in handy. After doing this for a time, you will begin to understand the method.

In order to Trace/Arc in Logos, create a new Diagram File:

Choose the Text Flow diagram option and enter in the desired text. Click insert when done.

Your screen will look like this:

Move the column width to provide room from the brackets.

Move the biblical text to the far right and center the Scripture reference:

Begin to break up the propositions and label each proposition by verse # and then in alphabetical order (to distinguish each proposition of the same verse).

The process continues like this:

And so on......

Until you have broken up all the propositions.

You then use the brackets (or arcs if you so prefer) to the left to connect the propositions. In order to extend the bracket lines, you use the line tool (it looks like a slash). You label the propositions by clicking on the capitol T and dragging each label to the bracket face. The final product looks like this:

I don't really know how to upload my actual files. If someone could explain how to do this in Mac OSX, I could provide more examples.

DavidS

I did this with the diagramming tool in Logos 5 (4 would work also.); is this what you are talking about with arcing.

Liam

I have tried using the visual filters to highlight prepositions

Hey Andy, I made this Visual Filter with help from KS4J a while back and it helps a ton when actually working through an arc. I'm no expert at arcing but this VF actually inserts a return into the text of your Bible and puts up a marker for causal, explanitory, contrastive, and inferential conjunctions. The result is very similar to the HDNT (not quite as nice of course) and sets out all of these conjunctions onto their own separate line. It also contains markers for other conjunctions that are less prominent for arcing without separating them onto a new line. I posted it to this Faithlife group that I created dedicated to Arcing:https://faithlife.com/arcing/activity. Feel free to join the group and just click on the Document Tab and get the filter. (I think it only works for L5 - so if you don't have it you should download the free version of L5!)

Hope this is helpful for anyone out there struggling with arcing!

Andy

Hope this is helpful for anyone out there struggling with arcing!

Hi Liam,

Thanks so much for this. I look forward to trying out the visual filters.

Very much appreciated.

Andy

Liam

I have tried using the visual filters to highlight prepositions

Hey Andy, I made this Visual Filter with help from KS4J a while back and it helps a ton when actually working through an arc. I'm no expert at arcing but this VF actually inserts a return into the text of your Bible and puts up a marker for causal, explanitory, contrastive, and inferential conjunctions. The result is very similar to the HDNT (not quite as nice of course) and sets out all of these conjunctions onto their own separate line. It also contains markers for other conjunctions that are less prominent for arcing without separating them onto a new line. I posted it to this Faithlife group that I created dedicated to Arcing:https://faithlife.com/arcing/activity. Feel free to join the group and just click on the Document Tab and get the filter. (I think it only works for L5 - so if you don't have it you should download the free version of L5!)

Hope this is helpful for anyone out there struggling with arcing!

Ok, I would like to do the same here in Hebrew for the OT. The problem is, that the Hebrew morphologies that I have do not have conjunctions like the greek. There is not an option for causal, inferance, explative etc. I have no idea how Hebrew works so I'm not sure if such a thing is possible. Does anyone who is familiar with the Hebrew have any pointers?