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This post has 51 Replies | 4 Followers

Posts 2550
Ronald Quick | Forum Activity | Replied: Sun, Jan 22 2012 5:24 AM

It appears that I was luckier than most - I only had a handful (6-10) resources that disappeared. 

Posts 611
Graham Owen | Forum Activity | Replied: Sun, Jan 22 2012 8:05 AM

Is Mebin:
The thousands of resources I have painstakingly downloaded over the months have gone.

At least for me it was only a handful of resources, for me it seems to be linked to the Logos App logging me out.

God Bless

Graham

Pastor - NTCOG Basingstoke

Posts 348
Ralph Mauch | Forum Activity | Replied: Sun, Jan 22 2012 10:07 AM

Graham Owen:

Is Mebin:
The thousands of resources I have painstakingly downloaded over the months have gone.

At least for me it was only a handful of resources, for me it seems to be linked to the Logos App logging me out.

My experience was about the same as Graham's, the only thing affected was the Logos App, the Bibles I had downloaded were still there (logos Bibles), because at Church this morning I forgot the password for the wi-fi, and only was able to use the Bible, and not a resource that I had previously downloaded. I would like to know from Logos, how that happens, why would all the other downloaded resources disappear, yet the Bibles didn't... seems unlogical to me.

Thanks in advance!

 

Posts 1722
LogosEmployee
Bob Pritchett | Forum Activity | Replied: Sun, Jan 22 2012 10:13 AM

I don't know the technical answers about Android, but I do know that we're building a more sophisticated system for managing downloads that will be released in the near future. (Sorry, no date yet.) You'll be able to do batch downloads, and even manage what books are downloaded to your mobile device from within Logos 4 or via the web site.

The forced log out was the result of a mandatory software upgrade on the servers, for security reasons. As I understand it, almost every web site will occasionally need some update that forces cookies to be reset, and users to re-log in. But we try hard to avoid it whenever possible.

Sorry for the inconvenience!

Posts 620
Jonathan | Forum Activity | Replied: Sun, Jan 22 2012 11:34 AM

Bob Pritchett:

even manage what books are downloaded to your mobile device from within Logos 4 or via the web site.

Wow! Can't wait. This would be a tremendous help!

Syntax Searching Group | Michigan Logos Users | L5 FAQ | OSX 10.10 | 2.4 GHz i5 | 8 GB Ram

Posts 152
Ryan | Forum Activity | Replied: Sun, Jan 22 2012 3:22 PM

The downloaded resource deletion happened to me as well. I spent a few hours downloading a couple hundred volumes of commentaries and theology. :-(

I do hope this issue is resolved ASAP, but I also know this is a risk I take in running a sub-v1 or Beta application.

Posts 27460
Forum MVP
Dave Hooton | Forum Activity | Replied: Sun, Jan 22 2012 10:33 PM

Ryan:
I also know this is a risk I take in running a sub-v1 or Beta application.

That is commendable, but the problem happened because of server upgrade and I'm sure that we would like to have known in advance, and be assured that steps will be taken to eliminate the problem in the future. I didn't see any issue on the iOS forum...

Dave
===

Windows 11 & Android 8

Posts 152
Ryan | Forum Activity | Replied: Mon, Jan 23 2012 7:40 AM

Dave Hooton:
That is commendable, but the problem happened because of server upgrade and I'm sure that we would like to have known in advance, and be assured that steps will be taken to eliminate the problem in the future. I didn't see any issue on the iOS forum...

I don't really buy the "We needed a logout" wiping out all the data. This makes zero sense. I should be able to log out and log back in and have access to my files.

Here's what I suspect, since it was reported as a "mandatory software upgrade on the servers, for security reasons", I suspect there was an issue with sending or sharing resources with other android users, and other android users accessing that content without actually having the license to open it.

This is my suspicion, but it should be fixed. There is no reason that logging out of the Android Logos Application would remove all the books, or that after logging backing, a redownload would have to take place. Logging out should just not permit the local files to be accessible.

Posts 274
Daniel Lee | Forum Activity | Replied: Mon, Jan 23 2012 7:48 AM

Dave Hooton:

Ryan:
I also know this is a risk I take in running a sub-v1 or Beta application.

That is commendable, but the problem happened because of server upgrade and I'm sure that we would like to have known in advance, and be assured that steps will be taken to eliminate the problem in the future. I didn't see any issue on the iOS forum...

I agree.  I completely understand the need for server upgrades, but a reset of downloaded resources, as well as not (yet) having a way to bulk download the ones we want, is what makes this so frustrating.  Along with not being notified.  If I'm going to reset a main server at my job, where I work IT, especially if it's during the day, I email people to let them know.  A few people may get annoyed with the extra communication, but most would rather know beforehand.

Thanks for working on this, Logos.  I think you have the best Bible software out there in terms of available books and potential.  I've invested quite a bit between base packages and commentary upgrades and so on.  But being confident I can access those books with a minimum of hassle is a deciding factor between you being my source for all my future theology resource purchases, or just a few. Thanks for all the features you have added and I look forward to future additions, like split-screen viewing and eventually notes/highlighting.

Posts 1722
LogosEmployee
Bob Pritchett | Forum Activity | Replied: Mon, Jan 23 2012 9:13 AM

Ryan:

I don't really buy the "We needed a logout" wiping out all the data. This makes zero sense. I should be able to log out and log back in and have access to my files.

Here's what I suspect, since it was reported as a "mandatory software upgrade on the servers, for security reasons", I suspect there was an issue with sending or sharing resources with other android users, and other android users accessing that content without actually having the license to open it.

Really? The first assumption is that we're lying to you, and making up technical excuses for an intentional deletion of cookies and increased user inconvenience, just so we can avoid Android users sharing resource files that we leave up on an FTP server anyway? Sigh...

We hate forcing users to re-log in. It's not in our interests, ever. So we avoid it at all costs. However, a recently discovered attack vector on cookie authentication led to an update of Microsoft (and others') server platform that changed how encryption on authentication cookies worked. We were compelled (by Visa/Mastercard PCI security compliance procedures -- and common sense!) to update our servers. 

Ryan:
There is no reason that logging out of the Android Logos Application would remove all the books,

Well, there is a pretty good reason. Books are only useful if you have a license to them, and apps that download lots of resources and don't clean up after themselves use up the limited storage on mobile devices. So our Android app was coded to delete downloaded book files when you were logged out (or, specifically, logged in after a log out). We didn't anticipate the mandatory cookie reset scenario, so logging out and logging back in was imagined as a way to either switch user accounts (which would require different resources) or to "reset" the application. (We did lots of this during the testing phase, as you can imagine.)

We knew the re-log in was coming, but the people who update the server had no idea it would force the re-download on Android. 

We don't anticipate that cookies will be reset for a very long time, but clearly we can be forced into it. So we're changing the app to check if you're logging in under the same account you'd most previously used, in which case we won't delete the stored book files. (Arguably, it should have been done this way the first time, but you can't always anticipate every scenario.)

Ultimately, we're implementing a model where "download to this device" is a server-synced property that survives log ins, log outs, etc. and is easily manged from inside Logos 4, inside the mobile app, or at Logos.com. This is partially coded, but just hasn't been finished and shipped yet. It will make this scenario and problem irrelevant.

I'm sorry for the inconvenience.

Posts 152
Ryan | Forum Activity | Replied: Mon, Jan 23 2012 9:45 AM

Bob Pritchett:
Really? The first assumption is that we're lying to you, and making up technical excuses for an intentional deletion of cookies and increased user inconvenience, just so we can avoid Android users sharing resource files that we leave up on an FTP server anyway? Sigh...

We hate forcing users to re-log in. It's not in our interests, ever. So we avoid it at all costs. However, a recently discovered attack vector on cookie authentication led to an update of Microsoft (and others') server platform that changed how encryption on authentication cookies worked. We were compelled (by Visa/Mastercard PCI security compliance procedures -- and common sense!) to update our servers. 

Thank you for the reply Mr. Pritchett.

My apologies for how my comment was taken. I wasn't assuming individuals were lying, but based on what was being released from Logos, that the fullness of the story wasn't coming to light. Whether it was a breakdown between the boots on the ground and commanders up top, or any number of things that can go wrong between the reporter and the technician, it just did not seem to make a lot of sense to me with how it was being reported. It was wrong for me to assume that you did not have the fullness of the story to report.

I'm in IT, and I know that many times when there is an emergency server outage notification or whatnot going out to employees (or even when we get a notification from our colo...), the notification is somehow represented as something that is not as particularly spot on as it could have been. This is mostly due to the fact that there is a language barrier between IT and non-IT, or that IT just doesn't want to go into the amount of detail that could be released.

Bob Pritchett:
We knew the re-log in was coming, but the people who update the server had no idea it would force the re-download on Android. 

No QA or mock go-live? I know, being in IT, you can't test everything, but this change seems to have been a big enough as well as cause a consistent enough problem that it should have been spotted. Especially if it was known that it would cause a re-log in. If anything, I guess there will be a post-mortem (Good times... important meetings on a Monday).

Bob Pritchett:
We knew the re-log in was coming, but the people who update the server had no idea it would force the re-download on Android. 

We don't anticipate that cookies will be reset for a very long time, but clearly we can be forced into it. So we're changing the app to check if you're logging in under the same account you'd most previously used, in which case we won't delete the stored book files. (Arguably, it should have been done this way the first time, but you can't always anticipate every scenario.)

Ultimately, we're implementing a model where "download to this device" is a server-synced property that survives log ins, log outs, etc. and is easily manged from inside Logos 4, inside the mobile app, or at Logos.com. This is partially coded, but just hasn't been finished and shipped yet. It will make this scenario and problem irrelevant.

These sound like very good plans. I can't wait until they are live. Until then I'm very leery of going through the process of downloading all the resources I had on my device previously without a greater level of assurance that they should stay there for a while.

Like I said before, I know that things like this taking place is the risk I take in running a sub-v1 or Beta application... I am grateful that Logos is developing an Android application, and also the impact Logos as a Bible study application has had on my studies.

Keep up the good work, LBS developing a good product, that has me heavily invested in, and that I use daily.

Regards,

Ryan

Posts 115
Pete Holzmann | Forum Activity | Replied: Sat, Jan 28 2012 8:49 AM

Bob Pritchett:

Ultimately, we're implementing a model where "download to this device" is a server-synced property that survives log ins, log outs, etc. and is easily manged from inside Logos 4, inside the mobile app, or at Logos.com. This is partially coded, but just hasn't been finished and shipped yet. It will make this scenario and problem irrelevant.

I'm sorry for the inconvenience.

Hi Bob,

I appreciate the candor. I'd like to reinforce that this is more than an "inconvenience" for some users. Take a look at this thread for an example of a person who will be paying more than $50US to re-download her data.

I'd suggest a significant warning that downloaded books may need re-downloading.

Posts 525
Sarel Slabbert | Forum Activity | Replied: Sat, Jan 28 2012 9:03 AM

Hi Bob,

I appreciate the candor. I'd like to reinforce that this is more than an "inconvenience" for some users. Take a look at this thread for an example of a person who will be paying more than $50US to re-download her data.

I'd suggest a significant warning that downloaded books may need re-downloading.

 

 

Hi Pete,

thanks for coming to my defence, but, uhm, I am a guy Stick out tongue

I still do not understand why Logos will not allow us to copy the books from our resource directory. They have all our license info, so why not give us an application that can simply boost these resources to our phones. That would be great. Downloading these books again (with the possibility that this can happen again in the future) is not something I am looking forward to. The money is one thing, the lost time is another. We do not have the bandwidth to download these resources in one sitting, so I have to space it out over several months.  Losing my downloaded resources not only meant lost cash, but a lot of lost hours.

 

I also ran into another problem: suddenly I am unable to log into my account on my device. I keep on getting Invalid Username or password.

 

Posts 1210
Ward Walker | Forum Activity | Replied: Sat, Jan 28 2012 9:16 AM

Sarel Slabbert:

...

I also ran into another problem: suddenly I am unable to log into my account on my device. I keep on getting Invalid Username or password.

I loaded the newest Beta today on my rooted Nook Color; when I tried to open the app, it wouldn't log me in.  I kept trying to enter my password, but it wouldn't take it.  Then, suddenly, it did--same password.  Odd.

 Luckily when I go off-line, all my downloaded resources are still there--so perhaps the logout/login "erase all downloads" code has been changed in the newest Beta.

Posts 525
Sarel Slabbert | Forum Activity | Replied: Sat, Jan 28 2012 10:21 AM

Finally managed to log in, but only book available offline is ASV

Posts 452
Is Mebin | Forum Activity | Replied: Sat, Jan 28 2012 11:51 PM

Bob Pritchett:

Ultimately, we're implementing a model where "download to this device" is a server-synced property that survives log ins, log outs, etc. and is easily manged from inside Logos 4, inside the mobile app, or at Logos.com. This is partially coded, but just hasn't been finished and shipped yet. It will make this scenario and problem irrelevant.

I'm sorry for the inconvenience.

Thank you Mr Pritchett... it is good to know the solutions are nearly there... and for the apology...for me, I am not in IT at all, and just thought that the hundreds of hours spent downloading the majority of my logos library meant they would always be there.  I love logos, and really want the Android app especially to be developed more...here's hoping that bulk downloading options are not light years away!  I honestly think that I will eventually end up using the Android app more than my desktop.

Posts 115
Pete Holzmann | Forum Activity | Replied: Sun, Jan 29 2012 7:44 AM
I still do not understand why Logos will not allow us to copy the books from our resource directory.

It's a good idea but unfortunately not that simple. Mobile versions need to be in a different format for a variety of reasons.

However -- since the Logos team truly desires to serve the body of Christ around the world, I would strongly encourage them to develop a user-friendly protocol and utility that enables people to sync books from PC to the mounted drive on a mobile device, eg via USB or directly connected SD card, etc.

(One suggestion: use the download bandwidth to securely manage the licensing, while direct transfer is used to manage the bulk data.)

Think of it as the iLogos equivalent of iTunes :)

 

Posts 152
Ryan | Forum Activity | Replied: Sun, Jan 29 2012 5:11 PM

My question is, is it safe to download my resources again?

Posts 525
Sarel Slabbert | Forum Activity | Replied: Sun, Jan 29 2012 9:56 PM

My question is, is it safe to download my resources again?

I am certainly not downloading anything until this is sorted out. It costs way to much in terms of both time and money. I actually enjoyed using Logos for Android. Doing some study or reading while waiting for my kids etc.  But unfortunately I am done with Logos for Android for now Sad

It is sad, but I really cannot afford to download resources, only to lose them again at a later stage.

Posts 27460
Forum MVP
Dave Hooton | Forum Activity | Replied: Mon, Jan 30 2012 1:30 AM

Ryan:

My question is, is it safe to download my resources again?

Play safe and only download the few you actually need for study or reading (I download about 10 and only single-volume commentaries).

 

Dave
===

Windows 11 & Android 8

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