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Posts 15
Carnell Butler | Forum Activity | Posted: Mon, Jan 30 2012 7:18 PM

Who has the I-Beam DVD and what do you think about it?

Posts 249
Giovanni Baggio | Forum Activity | Replied: Mon, Jan 30 2012 8:11 PM

A friend of mine has it and loaned it to me.  IMHO it's just an over priced homiletics video.  Go to toast masters to improve your speaking skills and they'll show you how to craft speeches (i.e. sermons) too.  It's cheaper too and you get to meet other people too.  Don't get me wrong I like MO but a homiletics video for that price, no way! I don't care how much lighting, sound and production equipment was involved, it's just plain too much. Just buy the booklet and you'll be fine. No real science to it.

For the sake of savings!

Giovanni Baggio

Posts 905
Brother Mark | Forum Activity | Replied: Tue, Jan 31 2012 7:14 AM

With blatant disregard for Giovanni's opinion, I find the I-Beam to be helpful and worthy of a spot in my collection.  However, if the cost is prohibitive for you, I recommend the I-Beam workbook which has the content without Mo actually teaching it via DVD for 7 hours... you can have that for $29.95.

 

"I read dead people..."

Posts 449
Bill Cook | Forum Activity | Replied: Tue, Jan 31 2012 7:50 AM

I have the workbook and agree that it is good. You will have to get used to adding all words that begin with the letter 'I' being added to your vocabulary.Smile But, it has good info.

Posts 156
Andrew Mitchell | Forum Activity | Replied: Tue, Jan 31 2012 7:54 AM

I have it and have found it very useful for planing Expository Sermons. If you have read Haddon Robinson then this takes it further and helps you to find the "Big Idea" of a passage and develop that into a "Homiletical idea". I only preach very infrequently and used the I-Beam approach for my last sermon which really helped me.

I find the alliterated sections confusing and had to convert them back to phrases I was familiar with. But no big deal.

For me this was money well spent.

 

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Kevin A. Purcell | Forum Activity | Replied: Tue, Jan 31 2012 8:21 AM

The alliteration alters all allusion to any abiltiyt to answer all available ....

 

You get the idea. Alliteration seldom helps us communicate the word. It can be gimmicky and most passages dont' really give us for M words about grace. If your lucky there may be 3 and you have to mange the meaning of the fourth sub-idea to make it fit.

People in the pew don't care. Only other preaches find it cool and therefore we are writing not to the honor and glory of God but our own cleverness.

Better mnemonic tools include visual illustrations like using the rooms of a home to illustrate various ideas about family or the ingredients of something like bread to show our discipleship traits that please God.

by the way most biblical passages have one idea and we would do better to expound on one idea with our sermon structure being intro, show why the passage is needed, explain the idea, illustrate it, argue for its truthfulness and show the "So What?" of application before driving it home with a good appeal at the end.

Great method of preaching that is simple for people to remember!

Put away the I-beam and present the text the way normal people think. 

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JT (alabama24) | Forum Activity | Replied: Tue, Jan 31 2012 8:41 AM

Kevin A. Purcell:
by the way most biblical passages have one idea and we would do better to expound on one idea with our sermon structure being intro, show why the passage is needed, explain the idea, illustrate it, argue for its truthfulness and show the "So What?" of application before driving it home with a good appeal at the end.

Yes

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Andrew Mitchell | Forum Activity | Replied: Tue, Jan 31 2012 8:59 AM

Kevin A. Purcell:
Alliteration seldom helps us communicate the word. It can be gimmicky and most passages dont' really give us for M words about grace. If your lucky there may be 3 and you have to mange the meaning of the fourth sub-idea to make it fit.

I agree completely, but the I-Beam doesn't encourage us to alliterate sermon points. It has alliteration in the sections of the I-Beam, which is confusing, which was the point I was making. 

Kevin A. Purcell:
by the way most biblical passages have one idea and we would do better to expound on one idea with our sermon structure being intro, show why the passage is needed, explain the idea, illustrate it, argue for its truthfulness and show the "So What?" of application before driving it home with a good appeal at the end
 

This is exactly what the I-Beam teaches isn't it? or have I missed something?

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Jack Caviness | Forum Activity | Replied: Tue, Jan 31 2012 9:38 AM

Kevin A. Purcell:
Alliteration seldom helps us communicate the word. It can be gimmicky

Kevin A. Purcell:
Only other preaches find it cool and therefore we are writing not to the honor and glory of God but our own cleverness.

IMHO (or NSHO) You are absolutely correct.

Kevin A. Purcell:
by the way most biblical passages have one idea and we would do better to expound on one idea with our sermon structure

Exceedingly good point

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Matthew C Jones | Forum Activity | Replied: Tue, Jan 31 2012 10:14 AM

Kevin A. Purcell:
You get the idea. Alliteration seldom helps us communicate the word.

Maybe not always, but definitely sometimes.

Calvinism's TULIP 

and

my grade school teacher's "A Rat In Tom's House May Eat Tom's Ice Cream"  = arithmetic

To be fair to Morris, The I-Beam of Message Building is intended for preachers. (We all did agree that preachers like little gimmicks like alliteration, didn't we? So Morris's use of it might be smart. Big Smile) He is not saying you have to alliterate your sermons. I don't fault his presentation any more than  Warren Wiersbe titling of the "Be" series  

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Jerry Bush | Forum Activity | Replied: Tue, Jan 31 2012 10:17 AM

Kevin A. Purcell:

The alliteration alters all allusion to any abiltiyt to answer all available ....

 

You get the idea. Alliteration seldom helps us communicate the word. It can be gimmicky and most passages dont' really give us for M words about grace. If your lucky there may be 3 and you have to mange the meaning of the fourth sub-idea to make it fit.

People in the pew don't care. Only other preaches find it cool and therefore we are writing not to the honor and glory of God but our own cleverness.

Better mnemonic tools include visual illustrations like using the rooms of a home to illustrate various ideas about family or the ingredients of something like bread to show our discipleship traits that please God.

by the way most biblical passages have one idea and we would do better to expound on one idea with our sermon structure being intro, show why the passage is needed, explain the idea, illustrate it, argue for its truthfulness and show the "So What?" of application before driving it home with a good appeal at the end.

Great method of preaching that is simple for people to remember!

Put away the I-beam and present the text the way normal people think. 

Thank you thank you thank you, Kevin!

I have always felt guilty because that way does not work for me. I think I sound stupid when I try.

Thanks for this... really.

Jerry

 

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JT (alabama24) | Forum Activity | Replied: Tue, Jan 31 2012 10:31 AM

Super Tramp:

Kevin A. Purcell:
You get the idea. Alliteration seldom helps us communicate the word.

Maybe not always, but definitely sometimes.

Calvinism's TULIP 

ST - I think that you have alliteration confused with something else. Alliteration is the use of the same letter or sound. This is the "5 'R's' of evangelism" or the "3 'B's' of parenting." There is a genre of preaching which emphasizes the use of alliteration. I am not opposed to the device (it can be helpful), but in my experience many preachers were taught they needed to and it becomes forced. Plus, as Kevin mentioned, Preaching should really be about ONE thing, not THREE alliterated ones.

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Matthew C Jones | Forum Activity | Replied: Tue, Jan 31 2012 10:40 AM

alabama24:
ST - I think that you have alliteration confused with something else.

I think you be right!     I am just a little alliterate today. I have been baby-sitting my granddaughter while I try to put together a Logos Credit order. I swung by the forums and posted without much thought........(so what is new about that?  Stick out tongue ) I will bow out acronymoniously Wink   

ps: My point about Mo using the "I"s still applies; it is a hook/gimmick for preachers (that special breed that like gimmicks) It was not an instruction in cutesy sermon delivery.

back to that order....Big Smile

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Matthew C Jones | Forum Activity | Replied: Tue, Jan 31 2012 10:47 AM

Carnell Butler:
 Who has the I-Beam DVD and what do you think about it? 

To actually respond to the question:

I find Morris's method to be another viable way to build a message. If you are used to a certain way and are comfortable with it, you might not want it. But I would recommend you get the manual and if you like the method and can afford the DVD then go for it. Morris is a good teacher but if you have no interest or use for what the subject is then the DVD is quite expensive. If you like having multiple options then it is definitely worth a look.

I was in Toastmasters and the Kiwanis and took the Dale Carnegie course. All of them help with public speaking but they don't teach you how to craft a sermon. (Well, maybe a 2 minute sermon.)

 

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JT (alabama24) | Forum Activity | Replied: Tue, Jan 31 2012 11:49 AM

Super Tramp:
I think you be right!     I am just a little alliterate today.

LOL! Big Smile

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Kevin A. Purcell | Forum Activity | Replied: Wed, Feb 1 2012 6:15 AM

Andrew Mitchell:
I agree completely, but the I-Beam doesn't encourage us to alliterate sermon points. It has alliteration in the sections of the I-Beam, which is confusing, which was the point I was making. 

But his alliteration makes it nearly impossible for dolts like me to remember so that I dont' have to use the book to work on every message. A good system will be stored in you mind so you no longer need the crutch. It also makes every sermon sound the same and your preaching gets predictable.

The best tool is to follow the text. When it is didactic as in Pauls letters, three points may work if the text has a subject completed structure. It might also be better to follow the one idea explained illustrated applied appeal approach. If the sermon is a store and you don't tell the story you're not expository. If the sermon is a piece of wisdom literature you have to put for the main point. A sermon with three points based on a parable misses what a parable is and is not expository. A sermon on a psalm should be more poetic in tone. Expository preaching is more than just getting the ideas out. The I-Beam misses that.

Posts 2898
Mike Childs | Forum Activity | Replied: Wed, Feb 1 2012 6:58 AM

Kevin A. Purcell:
The alliteration alters all allusion to any abiltiyt to answer all available

The only preacher that I thought used aliteration masterfully and effectively was Adrian Rogers.  Alas, I am no Adrian Rogers.  Unless you are, it is distracting and not very helpful, in my opinion. 

"In all cases, the Church is to be judged by the Scripture, not the Scripture by the Church," John Wesley

Posts 28
Gerald Kapanka | Forum Activity | Replied: Wed, Feb 1 2012 7:04 AM

For what it is worth, I have the DVD and have view it. I have changed the way that i prepare and preach. It was almost immediately evident to the congregation i serve. I have received numerous unsolicited compliments regarding how much better the sermons are and how much more understandable the have been.

I can say for me; they have made me a better preacher and therefore, a better pastor. Expensive yes, but in my opinion, worth every penny. One of the best investments i have ever made.

One thing i have discovered is that i spend a lot more time in preparing my messages than i did before.

Posts 156
Andrew Mitchell | Forum Activity | Replied: Wed, Feb 1 2012 7:12 AM

Kevin A. Purcell:
The best tool is to follow the text

Kevin

I agree with you. Being the seasoned preacher that you are, I wouldn't expect you to use resources like "I-Bem". For a beginner like me it has been very useful and very practical. I don't remember any suggestion in the "I-Beam" that you need 3 points in a sermon. In fact many of the examples use more than 3 points from what I remember. 

The I-Beam is a modification of the "Keyword" method of preaching which I know is not applicable to many literary genres of the Bible, but I found it very helpful and what I have learned I can now build upon. It encouraged me to be "Faithful to the Text and  Functional for Today"

You can't master it all at once and have to start somewhere.

Anyway, it is not my job to defend the "I-Beam", just sharing my experiences. I am sure it is not for everyone, but for me it was money well spent.

Blessings in Christ

Andrew

Posts 2864
Kevin A. Purcell | Forum Activity | Replied: Wed, Feb 1 2012 7:33 AM

To all who find it useful and helpful, awesome.

Let me however, suggest a few other resources that I think will achieve the same results with a better method.

1. Christ Centered Preaching by Chapel

2. Biblical Preaching by Haddon Robinson (the best preaching text out there, but chapel's updates the concepts a bit so I put this second

3. 12 Essential Skills for Great Preaching by McDill if you really like the I-beam's keyword apprach. This also will teach you how to do inductive Bible study in a systematic way.

BTW I will be teaching preaching starting Feb. 1 to a small group of laymen. Pray that God will use it in their lives and I will not get any of the credit. I've been thinking about streaming the class for the edification of others.

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