Take the Logos 4 speed test . . .

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This post has 31 Replies | 4 Followers

Posts 8
Brian Blanchard | Forum Activity | Replied: Tue, Nov 17 2009 7:03 AM

Greg, for the record, my machine acts pretty much the same as yours with freezes, partial black screen "not responding", and overall sluggish performance. I was able to crash it by opening a search on "grace" and having two handouts screens and 5 resources and the NASB open at the same time.I re-indexed over night, and have the same problems. I can have 20 Word documents open, power point , outlook publisher, Logos3, the inking screen, and Excel running at the same time with overall "snappy" performance.

The specs on my machine are:

HP Tablet PC, Vista Business 64, 1.2 Core Duo,purchased 2/15/08

Version    6.0.6002 Service Pack 2 Build 6002 (set to auto update)

Installed Physical Memory (RAM)    4.00 GB
Total Physical Memory    3.93 GB
Available Physical Memory    1.66 GB
Total Virtual Memory    8.03 GB
Available Virtual Memory    5.62 GB
Page File Space    4.22 GB

Hard drive is 64 GB and has 14 GB free,

Logos4 installed on (M:\)Transcend 32 GB Express Card

Display Adapter Type: Mobile Intel(R) 965 Express Chipset Family, Intel Corporation compatible.

Display Adapter RAM    448.00 MB (469,762,048 bytes)

Posts 30
Tom | Forum Activity | Replied: Tue, Nov 17 2009 11:47 AM

Great work with the new version! It did take 4 days for me to download 5gig of updates from Iraq ;) Below are my computer specs for my mini. I don't find it an issue to search resources with a delay but it takes a few seconds (3-4)  to scroll a few lines which is painful.

Passage Search from main screen: Romans 1 takes 47 seconds

Single window ESV bible jump to 1 Peter takes 3 seconds, scroll down 2-3 seconds lag

Logos4.exe process using 220Mb of Mem

Right Click in ESV on a word - interlinear only takes 4 seconds

Left Click in ESV interlinear takes 4 seconds

I dont mind waiting for searches but scrolling is very hard to deal with. I know I am probably one of the few on a mini, but for 5hrs battery life and small design I can take Logos where ever I need to go.

 

BTW: Logos works great on my Dell XPS 1330, near instant search time.Little larger notebook but it is for programming, while the mini is for email, logos, kindle, photo album and skype.

 

OS Name    Microsoft Windows XP Home Edition   
Version    5.1.2600 Service Pack 3 Build 2600   
OS Manufacturer    Microsoft Corporation   
System Manufacturer    Dell Inc.   
System Model    Inspiron 1010   
System Type    X86-based PC   
Processor    x86 Family 6 Model 28 Stepping 2 GenuineIntel ~1330 Mhz   
BIOS Version/Date    Dell Inc. A07, 7/23/2009   
SMBIOS Version    2.5     
Time Zone    Arabic Standard Time   
Total Physical Memory    1,024.00 MB   
Available Physical Memory    132.52 MB   
Total Virtual Memory    2.00 GB   
Available Virtual Memory    1.95 GB   
Page File Space    2.38 GB   
Anti Virus: Norton Symantec Endpoint Protection

Posts 6
David Looney | Forum Activity | Replied: Sun, Nov 22 2009 2:04 PM

Richard and Thomas, you are both experience better performance despite my system being considerably better [or at least supposedly]. 

Thomas

Desktop | Windows Experience Index: | AMD 64 X2 3800+ (2.0Ghz) dual core | 4GB RAM | Dual 22" widescreen monitors at 1680x1050 | Nvidia 7300 GS 256MB video RAM |500 GB Raid Mirror. | Windows 7 Professional 64bit  - all patches. |Kaspersky Internet Security 2010 - up to date

Richard

OS: Win7 (64bit); CPU: Intel i7-920 (2.67 GHz 8MB L3 cache); RAM: 6GB; Video: ATI Radeon HD 4850 (512MB); HD: 683GB (466GB free); AV: Norton Internet Security.

My System:

Experience Index 6, Intel i7-920 (2.66 8MB L3 Cache); 12 Gb DDR3 1600 RAM, three GeForce 9600 512 DDR3 cards (each runing a 23" 1080p monitor), two 1.5 Tb drives running at Raid 0, AV: Norton 360. 

Still you guys are having better performance:

Thomas'  GUI test: 0.5, 0.5, 0.5

Richard's Results Gui. Instant, instant to 2 sec, instant to 1 sec

My gui results 2sec, 3 sec, 3-4sec. 

 

I know Bob says it's hardware but i have a hard time thinking that's it.

 

Posts 26953
Forum MVP
Dave Hooton | Forum Activity | Replied: Sun, Nov 22 2009 3:41 PM

DavidLooney:

I know Bob says it's hardware but i have a hard time thinking that's it.

My feeling is latency with 3 x High Definition video cards. You can experiment with these if you want. Also 12 GB memory may have higher latency than say 6 - 8 GB with 6 x 2 GB memory sticks vs 3 or 4 sticks. You might want to get dirty with the BIOS settings for memory and CPU timing.

Dave
===

Windows 10 & Android 8

Posts 6
David Looney | Forum Activity | Replied: Sun, Nov 22 2009 6:18 PM

Dave Hooton:
My feeling is latency with 3 x High Definition video cards. You can experiment with these if you want

Thanks Dave... I tested Logos by dropping to one video card and dropping the resolution down pretty low. It was the only thing i could think of. That didn't do anything. I might try over clocking the cards once I've watter cooled them all, not sure if i want to do that though. 

Dave Hooton:
Also 12 GB memory may have higher latency than say 6 - 8 GB with 6 x 2 GB memory sticks vs 3 or 4 sticks

I have Cosair Dominator's (Cas Latency 8). I took your advice and i'm OC'ing my memory now @1600mhz... i've actually noticed about a .5 sec improvement in GUI test and a major system improvement overall. I've heard slower DDR2 can outperform faster DDR3 due to tighter timing... not sure about that. I guess if Rick and Thomas are both using DDR2 it could explain why they're having better performance. 

Thomas and Rick, do you guys mind telling me what kind of memory you're using?

 

 

Posts 123
David Fish | Forum Activity | Replied: Sun, Nov 22 2009 6:48 PM

David,

Off subject, but are you the son of Clinton Looney?

MacBook Air M1 16GB RAM | 2 Mac Minis M1 8GB RAM | iPad 3 (plus some Windows laptops relegated to disuse)

Posts 687
Jon | Forum Activity | Replied: Mon, Nov 23 2009 4:58 AM

DavidLooney:

My System:

Experience Index 6,

Which test brings your experience index down to a 6?

Also are you running Win7x64?

Posts 97
Greg Gray | Forum Activity | Replied: Tue, Nov 24 2009 4:42 AM

I have been running Windows 7 64bit for the last couple weeks and have noticed less problems than my 32bit install.  I know there can be lots of factors here, but I will redo the test to show the difference. 

1.  Gui speed.

A.  When you have multiple tabs open do you have instant response when you click on an unselected tab?  If no what is the approximate lag time?

Lag ranges from instant to about 5 seconds (32bit).  I can't find out a consistent way to make it lag it just happens some times 

 Lag ranges from instant to 2 seconds (64bit)

B.  When you right click on a word in a Bible that has an interlinear, is the information in the menu displayed instantly or is there a lag (If there is a lag how many seconds until everything is displayed).

Lag is about 5 - 6 seconds on average (32bit)

Lag is about 3-4 (64bit)

C.  When you click on a word in a Bible with an interlinear, does the word instantly become highlighted in both the text and the interlinear or is there a lag?  If a lag how long?

Lag is 1 - 2 seconds (can be worse if information window is open)(32bit)

 pretty consistent at 1 second (even with information window open) (64bit)

2.  Search speed.   (as speed in this area is system specific, I think it is only right to post both the speed of Logos3 and Logos4.  Logos3 is our point of reference for search efficiency and I think all of us expect Version 4 to be faster in this department)

A.  Do a passage guide search in version three for Romans 8:1 with all headings expanded.  Do the same passage guide search in V4 (make sure you only have the categories expanded that correspond to the categories in Version 3's passage guide.)  List the time in seconds for both.

Version 3 = 6 seconds

Version 4 = 35 seconds (a passage guide search with all headings expanded is 80 seconds for me)

 Version4 = 20 seconds ( A passage guide search for Romans 8:1 with all headings expanded was 55 seconds) (64bit)

B.  Do a library search for the word "God" in both V3 and V4.  Note the time it takes for both, not only to complete the search, but also to display all search results.  (NOTE: in V4 the search results will be divided into pages, and each pave initiates a new search - so to be fare you must multiply your time for page 1 by the number of pages listed at the bottom)

 

Version 3 = 115 seconds

Version 4 = 500 seconds (25 seconds times 20 pages) (64bit)

Version 4 = 200 seconds (10seconds times 20 pages) (64bit)

C.  Using an interlinear with the information tool open, hover over a word.  Record the time taken to display all information in both versions.

Version 3 = practically instant

Version 4 = 5 - 10 seconds depending on the word.

Version 4 = 4 - 6 seconds depending on the word

 

As you can see I am getting substantially better results with the 64bit install.  Both are set up the same way with the same programs installed same services disabled, etc.

Of course the 64bit install is allowing me access to my full 4GB of memory (2.9GB in 32bit).

 Also a note on the times differences between version 3 and 4 searches and passage guide.  Since doing my initial comparison I have upgraded my Version 4 package so my version4 install now has 470 more books in it than the version 3 (this also emphasizes how much better the 64bit install is running - I am getting for some things over 50% better times with almost double the books to search through) .

 

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Rich DeRuiter | Forum Activity | Replied: Tue, Nov 24 2009 9:15 AM

DavidLooney:
I know Bob says it's hardware but i have a hard time thinking that's it.

I'm starting to think its' a combination of hardware and background services. Someone posted yesterday about getting a significant boost to Logos4 after turning off "Tablet PC Input Services" (turn off and set to "Manual"). See this thread: http://community.logos.com/forums/p/5627/44019.aspx#44019

Now it may not have been that service, but how that service interacted with another. I don't know. But it's a direction to start thinking about. I actually had that service enabled before and turned it off yesterday.

You have Norton 360 and I have Norton Internet Security. There are a few differences between the two that may account for the issue as well. Maybe not, but in the past, at least, Norton has been known to muck things up when it tries to enhance system performance (I don't know if this is still the case).

Then there are issues of driver mismatch. I've written in a few other threads about a problem I had when I upgraded an EVGA nVidia card from a driver at the nVidia site. Wrong chip set: big problems. Uninstalled, found the right driver at EVGA and things worked great. But even if you get the right driver for the right chip set, are they really as optimized for Win7 as they claim?

So somewhere in the multitude of variables between hardware, background software, services and drivers, there's an answer. Finding it is daunting.

 Help links: WIKI;  Logos 6 FAQ. (Phil. 2:14, NIV)

Posts 97
Greg Gray | Forum Activity | Replied: Tue, Nov 24 2009 9:43 AM

So somewhere in the multitude of variables between hardware, background software, services and drivers, there's an answer. Finding it is daunting.

I partially agree with this - except the statement implies that the problem is with the hardware/drivers/services and  that it is the users responsibility to track down the problem.  For example if Logos4 is not reacting well to some background service, it is not a problem with our systems, but with Logos4.  

 

Don't get me wrong, the more we can try to narrow things down for the Logos team the better - but to be fair Logos4 does not behave well speed wise on a lot of systems - and it is not hardware dependent (there are great systems performing poorly, and vice versa).  I would say that there are deficiencies in the Logos4 code that makes it susceptible to performance hits in several environments at times non-dependent on hardware specs.

 

 

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Rich DeRuiter | Forum Activity | Replied: Tue, Nov 24 2009 10:17 AM

Greg Gray:
For example if Logos4 is not reacting well to some background service, it is not a problem with our systems, but with Logos4.  

True, unless the user is doing non-standard installs, and running non-Windows services in the background, or using system 'optimizers' to set non-standard settings for the Windows environment. I also think that for users who build their own systems, it's the user's responsibility to ensure that all the chip sets and all the drivers from all the components work together without incompatibilities or 'bottle-necks' (one reason I don't build my own systems anymore). Then add in, users who turn off default services that Logos may be needing. In these scenarios, the user who caused the problem has (or at least shares) the responsibility to remedy it.

Logos did discover an incompatibility with Nokia software (Nokia Phone Suite) and services needing to be turned off, e.g. How many other similar services are out there doing virtually the same thing? Is it Logos' responsibility to track down every possible offending background task and service? I hope not. I'd rather have the finish work my NIV rev int.

I prefer to see this trouble-shooting thing as a partnership opportunity between user and company. I'm quite sure they're looking into this, but they don't have your computer to help them find the issue (whether it's yours or theirs).

 Help links: WIKI;  Logos 6 FAQ. (Phil. 2:14, NIV)

Posts 1
Joshua Bogle | Forum Activity | Replied: Thu, Nov 26 2009 4:10 PM

Thomas do you find that your build is sufficient or do you think it would be worth investing in maybe i7-860 2.66GHz system ($800-$1000).  I am looking at buying a computer for logos.  Right now I am on my four year old Toshiba Satellite with Celeron M 1.5GHz and 768MB RAM (512MB+ 256MB).  The alternative is something more like your build for around $400.

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