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Scott | Forum Activity | Posted: Fri, Jul 31 2009 4:20 PM

I have The Complete Works of Francis A. Schaeffer : A Christian Worldview, and had just begun doing some research in it when I discovered that page numbers were missing (as in none whatsoever) within the work. This has made it almost worthless for research, as I cannot reference to any material I may desire to quote by some division smaller than a chapter.

So this leads to two questions and a comment:

  1. Is there something I am missing to cause page numbers to show up (most other works I open have page numbers)?
  2. Has anyone else experienced this problem with either the same work or some other work produced for Libronix?

It seems to me that one of the main benefits of Logos is research (search functionality, etc.), so it follows that it should be a standard policy that Libronix products have page numbers (or some equivalent small subdivision if appropriate) for all its resources, so that reference to such can be made in papers, books, etc.

If anyone has answers to the questions (especially #1), I would appreciate it. It may simply be my ignorance of how to get the work to reference correctly. However, considering this is the first work I've had this problem with, I am suspecting that it is a problem with the particular product itself.

Thank you.

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George Somsel | Forum Activity | Replied: Fri, Jul 31 2009 4:33 PM

ScottASmith01:
I have The Complete Works of Francis A. Schaeffer : A Christian Worldview, and had just begun doing some research in it when I discovered that page numbers were missing (as in none whatsoever) within the work. This has made it almost worthless for research, as I cannot reference to any material I may desire to quote by some division smaller than a chapter.

You are correct.  This reference does not have page numbers.  There are a few of the older references which do not have them.

george
gfsomsel

יְמֵי־שְׁנוֹתֵינוּ בָהֶם שִׁבְעִים שָׁנָה וְאִם בִּגְבוּרֹת שְׁמוֹנִים שָׁנָה וְרָהְבָּם עָמָל וָאָוֶן

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J.R. Miller | Forum Activity | Replied: Fri, Jul 31 2009 5:23 PM
I have The Complete Works of Francis A. Schaeffer : A Christian Worldview, and had just begun doing some research in it when I discovered that page numbers were missing (as in none whatsoever) within the work.
There is an appropriate method to reference electronic resources without page numbers. If you do some research into your approved style (Turabian, etc...), you will find you can still use these older resources even without page numbers. However, it is better with them and I hope these older resources are updated.

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Rich DeRuiter | Forum Activity | Replied: Fri, Jul 31 2009 5:40 PM

ScottASmith01:

  • Is there something I am missing to cause page numbers to show up (most other works I open have page numbers)?
  • Has anyone else experienced this problem with either the same work or some other work produced for Libronix?
  • Scott, assuming you're doing this research for a class, check with your institution, or your professor/teacher for the policy on quoting from electronic sources. You probably just have to follow the rules of Turabian, Chicago Manual of Style, etc, though your educational institution may have a specific policy about electronic works. It's best to be open with your prof about this - just ask him/her, you're probably not the first person to ask about this.

    Generally, it is not necessary to have page numbers when quoting from an electronic resource. It makes some students nervous, and some prof's just don't like it, but the accepted standards for citing electronic works do not require it.

     Help links: WIKI;  Logos 6 FAQ. (Phil. 2:14, NIV)

    Posts 7
    Scott | Forum Activity | Replied: Sat, Aug 1 2009 6:22 PM

    Thanks for the replies. The answers were in line with my expectations. I suspected there was nothing to do about the gaining of page numbers (unless the resource is updated).

    While I am aware of the formats for electronic source citations and the fact that no page numbers are needed (web pages don't have page numbers), the nice thing about Libronix resources is that most do have page numbers correlated to the works that were made electronic. I find this to be one of the excellent features about their products, which is why I was suprised to find one that was not fitted with them. Of course, now I have been enlightened to "older references" not having page numbers.

    Though a student, I follow the view of the teachers that Mr. DeRuiter noted--I don't like it. I hope the older resources will be updated at some point to include page numbering, and that all new resources be likewise formatted. It is important enough to me that I have some page number reference that I checked out the works from the library so I could reference to those rather than the Libronix version.

    Posts 7
    Gerhard Venter | Forum Activity | Replied: Wed, Feb 9 2011 1:16 PM

    Same problem here - I've got "Martin Luther's Basic Theological Writings" by Lull - no page numbers. I guess I'm old school about this too. However, having been in IT for many years, just think of this: page numbers are metadata, so their connection with the text is arbitrary, i.e. it changes from edition to edition, causing a lot of problems. On the other hand, a small phrase of even three consecutive words has a very big chance of being unique, and is intrinsic to the text. Provided you're not looking for them in a paper book. Sigh.

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