Add the 1984 NIV

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Posts 17
Terin Lyr D'Amico | Forum Activity | Posted: Thu, Apr 5 2012 2:57 AM

Please add the 1984 NIV.  Unfortunately, the only NIV available is the 2011 Zondervan version, with it's gender neutralized approach to bible translation.

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fgh | Forum Activity | Replied: Thu, Apr 5 2012 3:23 AM

They had it. As I understand it Zondervan doesn't allow it to be sold anymore.

"The Christian way of life isn't so much an assignment to be performed, as a gift to be received."  Wilfrid Stinissen

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Posts 17
Terin Lyr D'Amico | Forum Activity | Replied: Thu, Apr 5 2012 3:35 AM

That would be very disappointing.  My prefered translation is the NIV, and out of 1861 resources in my Logos library, the only one that is useless is the NIV bible.  I'm having to stick to my 1984 NIV Study Bible.

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Keep Smiling 4 Jesus :) | Forum Activity | Replied: Thu, Apr 5 2012 3:37 AM

Terin Lyr D'Amico:

Please add the 1984 NIV.  Unfortunately, the only NIV available is the 2011 Zondervan version, with it's gender neutralized approach to bible translation.

Welcome Big Smile

Prior to KF Base Packages, Logos included 1984 NIV => New KF Base Packages

Noticed 1984 NIV product page is not currently available on Logos.com, not know if Logos Sales => http://www.logos.com/about/contact can help.

For product suggestions, Logos has Suggestions forum (user discussion) and email => http://www.logos.com/about/contact 

Keep Smiling Smile

Posts 17
Terin Lyr D'Amico | Forum Activity | Replied: Thu, Apr 5 2012 3:47 AM

Thanks for the reply and pointing me in the direction of the suggestions forum.

Also changed my preferred bible in Logos to KJV.  Looks like Zondervan is going to make me a KJV lover.

Smiling in Afghanistan.Big Smile

Posts 8899
fgh | Forum Activity | Replied: Thu, Apr 5 2012 3:53 AM

Terin Lyr D'Amico:
out of 1861 resources in my Logos library, the only one that is useless is the NIV bible

Then you're extremely lucky! I'm happy if I can use about 10% of the package contents.

"The Christian way of life isn't so much an assignment to be performed, as a gift to be received."  Wilfrid Stinissen

Mac Pro OS 10.9.

Posts 19262
Rosie Perera | Forum Activity | Replied: Thu, Apr 5 2012 4:07 AM

Terin Lyr D'Amico:

Also changed my preferred bible in Logos to KJV.  Looks like Zondervan is going to make me a KJV lover.

You might give the ISV a try. People here have been remarking about what a good translation it is, readable and up-to-date in use of English language, yet faithful to the original languages and conservative.

ESV is another good one for people who don't like the NIV anymore because of the gender neutral language issue.

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NB.Mick | Forum Activity | Replied: Thu, Apr 5 2012 4:08 AM

Keep Smiling 4 Jesus :):

Prior to KF Base Packages, Logos included 1984 NIV => New KF Base Packages

Noticed 1984 NIV product page is not currently available on Logos.com

If you go there, you'll see that the page claims that NIV 1984 is still part of an SDA commentary set as well as of the full-size SESB package:

Running Logos 9 latest (beta) version on Win 10

Posts 2814
David Ames | Forum Activity | Replied: Thu, Apr 5 2012 4:54 AM

NB.Mick:

If you go there, you'll see that the page claims that NIV 1984 is still part of an SDA commentary set as well as of the full-size SESB package:

Please read the product page

did not see any Bibles listed there for the SDA set

product page for SESB just says NIV with out the year listed

[[I vote for dumping all versions of the NIV - ESV is good. So is the KJV or the DR.  Just figure out if the Textual Critics are correct or don't know what they are talking about]]

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NB.Mick | Forum Activity | Replied: Thu, Apr 5 2012 5:32 AM

David Ames:
did not see any Bibles listed there for the SDA set

Me neither, but we discussed NIV1984 in a number of prior threads (sometimes related to the missing RI when bought separately or through either the SDA set or SESB) - I recall someone claiming he got his NIV 1984 through this one. Maybe it's an oversight or typo on the page (seems they have the Handbook of Seventh-Day Adventist Theology twice). Maybe it was included in the former Libronix CD-ROM edition (which needs to run standalone and therefore requires a bible to be useful) and they took it out for the downloadable product. 

David Ames:
product page for SESB just says NIV with out the year listed

I know for certain that NIV 1984 was included in SESB CD-ROM edition. It may well be that Logos makes a silent update to NIV 2011 for the downloadable product, however, (I speculate in this direction in my comments regarding SESB in this thread: http://community.logos.com/forums/t/47272.aspx ) but so far I assume the NIV product page to be valid.

David Ames:
I vote for dumping all versions of the NIV - ESV is good. So is the KJV or the DR. 

Actually these three are very different translations. NIV 1984 was my first English-language bible and the NIV Study Bible is really outstanding. 

Thus I can fully understand users wanting NIV 1984 (or any other specific version) if they are teaching or preaching in a congregation that uses pew bibles or have a large base of students/congregants that bring this version to church or bible study groups. I also understand those who refuse to change a version they have memorized by heart, even if the new or other bible was either "better" according to someone's standard or "the same anyway" - no, ain't so. 

I got somewhat used to ESV since it is the "standard" full-functionality bible in Logos - but any bible in English will be just a tool for me, as my "real life" is conducted in German and the "bible in my head" is the Luther 1976 edition.

 

Running Logos 9 latest (beta) version on Win 10

Posts 1674
Paul Golder | Forum Activity | Replied: Thu, Apr 5 2012 6:03 AM

The whole thing is sad, but inevitable. I mean when Zondervan came under the ownership of a for profit media conglomerate (one that by all accounts will stop at almost nothing to make a profit), and with the NIV being everywhere, you just know there had to be board room discussions of how to force encourage users to buy an updated print version.

"As any translator will attest, a literal translation is no translation at all."

Posts 325
Michael | Forum Activity | Replied: Thu, Apr 5 2012 6:32 AM

Funny that this thread shows up today.  I was looking for the NIV (1984) in Logos yesterday, and much to my chagrin, it was gone.  I should have purchased a copy earlier when it was still available.  Guess I'll stick to the ESV.

Posts 2886
Mike Childs | Forum Activity | Replied: Thu, Apr 5 2012 6:43 AM

Updating the NIV was the worst idea since "New Coke".  Zondervan has taken a product that dominated market share, and the result will be a far smaller market share with the new product, and smaller profits.  Sad for us and dumb for them.

"In all cases, the Church is to be judged by the Scripture, not the Scripture by the Church," John Wesley

Posts 325
Michael | Forum Activity | Replied: Thu, Apr 5 2012 6:45 AM

Michael Childs:

Updating the NIV was the worst idea since "New Coke".  Zondervan has taken a product that dominated market share, and the result will be a far smaller market share with the new product, and smaller profits.  Sad for us and dumb for them.

 

Yes

Posts 611
Graham Owen | Forum Activity | Replied: Thu, Apr 5 2012 6:57 AM

Paul Golder:
...encourage users to buy an updated print version

This I get even though most people I know who have bought NIV print versions recently have managed to secure a 1984 edition. What I don't get is why they do not allow Logos to sell an NIV 1984 license to anyone who has a valid NIV 2011 license, this would surely be the most sensible approach and would generate extra revenue. Given how successful it has been the 1984 version is going to continue to be used by a lot of people for a long time. 

Of course in ten years time some smart marketing person will determine that they should release the 1984 NIV as the NIV Classic...

God Bless

Graham

Pastor - NTCOG Basingstoke

Posts 2381
David Thomas | Forum Activity | Replied: Thu, Apr 5 2012 7:04 AM

Graham Owen:
Of course in ten years time some smart marketing person will determine that they should release the 1984 NIV as the NIV Classic.

This is a GREAT idea, and I hope it doesn't take the executives at Zondervan 10 years figure this out!

Making Disciples!  Logos Ecosystem = Logos8 on Microsoft Surface Pro 4 (Win10), Android app on tablet, FSB on iPhone, [deprecated] Windows App, Proclaim, Faithlife.com, FaithlifeTV via Connect subscription.

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JT (alabama24) | Forum Activity | Replied: Thu, Apr 5 2012 7:15 AM

Graham Owen:
What I don't get is why they do not allow Logos to sell an NIV 1984 license to anyone who has a valid NIV 2011 license

I don't agree with this argument, but let me play devil's advocate with you…

If the purpose is to get more people to buy the updated translation (and it is), then they need to get the pastors & leaders to be using the updated translation. If someone is inclined to use the NIV, but the only available version is the 2011… 

In other words, since the purpose is to get users to purchase the new translation, they don't really care if they tick off those who were not likely to purchase it in the first place. There will be a significant and loud minority who will be upset as shown in this thread, but Zondervan doesn't care. They just care about the sale of the new translation. Plain and simple. 

Personally I would like a copy of the NIV 1984 for reference reasons. I do not intend to use the NIV 2011 as my "base text," but would use it when appropriate to help explain a passage to others.

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Rich DeRuiter | Forum Activity | Replied: Thu, Apr 5 2012 7:45 AM

fgh:

They had it. As I understand it Zondervan doesn't allow it to be sold anymore.

This is a common way of stating the issue, and it's correct that this decision is out of the hands of Logos. However, there's a third player here: the Committee on Bible Translation. These are the actual owners of the NIV (not Zondervan), they contract with Zondervan as their exclusive publisher in the U.S. and Logos sub-contracts from them.

It's not clear to me that Zondervan corp., is the 'problem child' here. The more I think about this, the more I lean toward the CBT as the culprit. After all, they're not marketers, they're translators (Zondervan stands to lose a lot of money by no longer selling the NIV84). As translators who have put in hundreds of hours of work into their latest 'baby' they want that work to bear fruit. Given the lack of general acceptance of the TNIV, they don't want this work to be another 'flop' so they're 'forcing' acceptance by removing their strongest competitor: the NIV84 (again, they're not marketers, so they don't understand that this is not likely to work).

I have written both Zondervan and the CBT on this. If you haven't, I encourage you to do so.

For the CBT you can do that by asking a question here. (Note the "Ask a Question" link in the left column). There's something similar at the Zondervan site, but I'm too busy at the moment to look it up.

 Help links: WIKI;  Logos 6 FAQ. (Phil. 2:14, NIV)

Posts 611
Graham Owen | Forum Activity | Replied: Thu, Apr 5 2012 7:56 AM

alabama24:
If the purpose is to get more people to buy the updated translation (and it is), then they need to get the pastors & leaders to be using the updated translation.

I get the purpose, I just think that the approach is flawed and unreasonable.

Flawed because you can't force people to like a specific translation of the Bible.

Unreasonable because the pastors and leaders that they are targeting will want access to the Bible that the congregation uses not the one that someone else thinks that they should buy.

BTW as a realist, and at the risk of contradicting myself, I expect that their strategy will be successful in as much as most people who buy a Bible will purchase the NIV 2011 because that is the one that the book shops will stock and most people who buy it will be oblivious to the concerns expressed in these forums about translation and sales approach. It will succeed based on the NIV brand name.

God Bless

Graham

Pastor - NTCOG Basingstoke

Posts 485
Randy Lane | Forum Activity | Replied: Thu, Apr 5 2012 8:07 AM

Richard DeRuiter:

fgh:

They had it. As I understand it Zondervan doesn't allow it to be sold anymore.

This is a common way of stating the issue, and it's correct that this decision is out of the hands of Logos. However, there's a third player here: the Committee on Bible Translation. These are the actual owners of the NIV (not Zondervan), they contract with Zondervan as their exclusive publisher in the U.S. and Logos sub-contracts from them.

It's not clear to me that Zondervan corp., is the 'problem child' here. The more I think about this, the more I lean toward the CBT as the culprit. After all, they're not marketers, they're translators (Zondervan stands to lose a lot of money by no longer selling the NIV84). As translators who have put in hundreds of hours of work into their latest 'baby' they want that work to bear fruit. Given the lack of general acceptance of the TNIV, they don't want this work to be another 'flop' so they're 'forcing' acceptance by removing their strongest competitor: the NIV84 (again, they're not marketers, so they don't understand that this is not likely to work).

I have written both Zondervan and the CBT on this. If you haven't, I encourage you to do so.

For the CBT you can do that by asking a question here. (Note the "Ask a Question" link in the left column). There's something similar at the Zondervan site, but I'm too busy at the moment to look it up.

I am far more suspicious of Zondervan than you. Ask anyone who bought some precious Zondervan resources in a Zondervan digital format over the past 15 years (and how they were treated by Zondervan with regard to migration those owned resources when Zondervan changed that digital platform) what they think about this publisher and its marketing tactics/policies. Ask throngs of Logos users that yearn for Zondervan publications that can only be bought in Logos if you buy a huge bundle, often for over $1,000. I could go on and on, but enough said is enough said. Given thier track record across the board, it is hard to find Zondervan just the innocent publisher here. You could be correct, but I find it hard to belive.

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