Are you seeing real speed improvements with SSD?

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Noel Dear | Forum Activity | Posted: Wed, Apr 18 2012 2:01 PM

Are people seeing real speed improvements using a SSD on a Windows machine?

Do I need to have my operating system on the SSD or will I see improvement if only my Logos 4 files are on the SSD?

Noel

Posts 291
Bob Schlessman | Forum Activity | Replied: Wed, Apr 18 2012 2:55 PM

Noel Dear:

Are people seeing real speed improvements using a SSD on a Windows machine?

Do I need to have my operating system on the SSD or will I see improvement if only my Logos 4 files are on the SSD?

Noel

There are scores of websites out there that offer advice on the best way to allocate and set up an SSD. But in a general, adding one is a good way to get a performace boost.

I have two systems with SSD's. One is my home office PC and the other is the one used in the sanctuary for worship services, video watching etc. On the home system I have a 120 Gig SSD set up as my boot drive  with Windows 7 and all of my major apps (Logos included). On the other system I have a 60 Gig SSD that I have set up as Intel Smart Response Technology cache with WIndows 7 and all apps installed on the mechanical hard drive. Both systems run circles around the setup I had prior to adding the SSD's. In reality I don't see any difference in performance between the two systems.

That said, I would suggest that you let your wallet be your guide. Also whether you have a motherboard that supports ISRT will determine the choice. ISRT will only use up to 64 gig of the SSD. So anything bigger will be partitioned accordingly.

I guess that is a lot more info than you asked for. But if you opt for making the SSD your boot drive and also want to put Logos on it then I wouldn't go for anything less than a 120 gig drive. That will allow you to also put all of your other apps on it. On my 120 gig SSD I have Microsfot Office, Pinnacle Studio HD 15, and Adobe Photoshop Elements installed along with a selection of other apps and utilities. I also have some video files on there that are parts of some active projects. I do video and audio editing and CD/DVD creation as well as all of my sermon prep, Bible study and other lesson prep. There is about 46 gig left free on the drive. It is complemented by two 500 Gig mechanical drives that hold the bulk of my photos, documents, music, and completed projects as well as backups of my system disk.

I hope this helped.

Blessings,

Bob

 

Posts 56
Noel Dear | Forum Activity | Replied: Wed, Apr 18 2012 3:04 PM

Thanks Bob.  This is good information.  It sounds like there would be some performance boost.  What is your guess if I just throw a $150 Crucial 128GB SSD into my system as a second drive and then reinstall Logos to that drive leaving everything else untouched?

Noel

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Keep Smiling 4 Jesus :) | Forum Activity | Replied: Wed, Apr 18 2012 3:25 PM

Noel Dear:
It sounds like there would be some performance boost.  What is your guess if I just throw a $150 Crucial 128GB SSD into my system as a second drive and then reinstall Logos to that drive leaving everything else untouched?

SSD data transfer rates are faster than mechanical hard drives.  For disk intensive use in Logos 4, SSD would be noticeably faster.

One option for physical hard drives is partitioning.  Personally have the fastest 64 GB on my hard drive for Logos 4 and Windows 7 page file plus use 320 MB RAM disk => http://community.logos.com/forums/p/42235/320135.aspx#320135 and => http://community.logos.com/forums/p/24555/295749.aspx#295749  For normal Logos 4 use, my 320 MB RAM disk is adequate (Logos search can write temporary files).  If want to completely rebuild bible and library indexes, need larger temporary storage (can change environment variables back to C: drive).

Keep Smiling Smile

Posts 1502
Wild Eagle | Forum Activity | Replied: Wed, Apr 18 2012 3:54 PM

I see big improvements with SSD. I do not hear any hdd scratching noise anymore ans speed is much faster. Indexing also is very fast and do not bother me anymore. I would never put Operating System or Logos on HDD, no matter how fast it is. After one or two years HDD becomes twice slower...

"No man is greater than his prayer life. The pastor who is not praying is playing; the people who are not praying are straying." Leonard Ravenhill 

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Dave Hooton | Forum Activity | Replied: Wed, Apr 18 2012 4:22 PM

Slava Novik:
After one or two years HDD becomes twice slower...

Earlier SSD's could slow dramatically after a few months or became unreliable. The current generation is much improved and is reflected with 3 yr warranties (5 yr if you go for Intel 520 series which are now just as fast as the opposition).

Dave
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Posts 291
Bob Schlessman | Forum Activity | Replied: Wed, Apr 18 2012 4:31 PM

Noel Dear:
It sounds like there would be some performance boost.  What is your guess if I just throw a $150 Crucial 128GB SSD into my system as a second drive and then reinstall Logos to that drive leaving everything else untouched?

That would avoid the headache of reinstalling the OS and all of the headaches that can bring. You'll see a definite  performace boost in Logos. Indexing in particualr. ANd my Logos startup times were cut by more than 50% (40 second down to 14 seconds). Also, any other apps that you install on that drive will see enhanced performance.

Slava makes a point about heavy access slowing down an SSD over a couple of years. But there are many tricks to limit that and extend the life of the drive. KS4J has pointed to one - putting your temp files on a Ramdisk.

Keep Smiling 4 Jesus :):

SSD data transfer rates are faster than mechanical hard drives.  For disk intensive use in Logos 4, SSD would be noticeably faster.

One option for physical hard drives is partitioning.  Personally have the fastest 64 GB on my hard drive for Logos 4 and Windows 7 page file plus use 320 MB RAM disk => http://community.logos.com/forums/p/42235/320135.aspx#320135 and => http://community.logos.com/forums/p/24555/295749.aspx#295749  For normal Logos 4 use, my 320 MB RAM disk is adequate (Logos search can write temporary files).  If want to completely rebuild bible and library indexes, need larger temporary storage (can change environment variables back to C: drive).

Keep Smiling Smile

The RAMDISK also speeds up Internet browsing if you move your browser temp files to it.

Posts 291
Bob Schlessman | Forum Activity | Replied: Wed, Apr 18 2012 4:32 PM

Yes

Posts 291
Bob Schlessman | Forum Activity | Replied: Wed, Apr 18 2012 4:32 PM

Dave Hooton:

Slava Novik:
After one or two years HDD becomes twice slower...

Earlier SSD's could slow dramatically after a few months or became unreliable. The current generation is much improved and is reflected with 3 yr warranties (5 yr if you go for Intel 520 series which are now just as fast as the opposition).

 

Yes That is right Dave.

Posts 2188
Mark | Forum Activity | Replied: Wed, Apr 18 2012 4:38 PM

Dave Hooton:

Slava Novik:
After one or two years HDD becomes twice slower...

Earlier SSD's could slow dramatically after a few months or became unreliable. The current generation is much improved and is reflected with 3 yr warranties (5 yr if you go for Intel 520 series which are now just as fast as the opposition).

How do you know the difference between earlier SSDs and the current generation of SSDs and would it be the same that after 3 years, the current ssds could become unreliable?

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Mark | Forum Activity | Replied: Wed, Apr 18 2012 4:46 PM

Wow.  I just did a bit of research on this and it certainly would discourage me from using ssd

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Dave Hooton | Forum Activity | Replied: Wed, Apr 18 2012 5:08 PM

Mark:
How do you know the difference between earlier SSDs and the current generation of SSDs

The latest Intel models are 520 series. Other makes/models may be advertised as "new". You usually can only buy the current (this year) + the previous generation (last year), and they are OK. Otherwise Google for reviews of SSD's.

Mark:
would it be the same that after 3 years, the current ssds could become unreliable?

SSD's are getting to be as reliable as HDD's i.e. some have issues after 2 or 3 yrs (or less) whilst many work well for 4 yrs or more. That's why you have a warranty (and your own backup!).  Note that some HDD's have only 2 yrs. If you are really cautious then pay extra for the Intel 520.

Dave
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Mark | Forum Activity | Replied: Wed, Apr 18 2012 7:49 PM

Thanks Dave for your input.  I recently purchased Samsung ssd 830 series.  I am assuming that is a current generation drive

Posts 602
Bill Anderson | Forum Activity | Replied: Wed, Apr 18 2012 8:12 PM

I have a Patriot Wildfire SSD on my desktop system. It just flies with my SATA 3 motherboard. Logos runs very well.

If you are going to buy, check to see whether your motherboard supports SATA 2 or 3. SATA 3 SSDs will scale back to SATA 2 speeds if paired with a SATA 2 controller on the MB. But, there's no reason to spend the extra money for a SATA 3 SSD if you don't have the controller to support it. Unless, of course, you are planning to upgrade to a SATA 3 system in the near future and migrate the SATA 3 SSD over.

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Dave Hooton | Forum Activity | Replied: Thu, Apr 19 2012 5:02 PM

Mark:
I am assuming that is a current generation drive

It is.

EDIT: Samsung appears to have a good reputation for reliability, similar to Intel's.  It may not benchmark the fastest in some situations but you won't notice the difference in the real world!

Dave
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Windows 10 & Android 8

Posts 777
David A Egolf | Forum Activity | Replied: Thu, Apr 19 2012 9:07 PM

Dave Hooton:

Slava Novik:
After one or two years HDD becomes twice slower...

Earlier SSD's could slow dramatically after a few months or became unreliable. The current generation is much improved and is reflected with 3 yr warranties (5 yr if you go for Intel 520 series which are now just as fast as the opposition).

My shop works with a couple of SSD vendors for inclusion in our 16 socket systems for database applications. (That's 320 logical processors in one system if hyperthreading is turned on.)  The slowness seen by some SSD subsystems usually has to do with writes.  Also, I believe that it is the finite number of write cycles which results in shorter service life.

Earlier versions were truly sporadic.  I experienced one case where we through an SSD on a system which was used for Linux distribution installation testing.  After a few installations resulting in writes to most of the drive, the performance slowed to about 5 time slower than moving head disk speed.  It recovered, but it took over 1.5 hours.

Service life has a different distribution on these beasts than with spinning magnetic media.  Many even report to the O/S what the remaining service life is as it is "consumed".  Therefore, if you keep important updated data on the drive, you MUST keep good backups.  However, the Logos library and installation is typically kept backed up "on the cloud".  So this would be ideal.

The implication of this would be that one should avoid placing heavily written data on the drives.  I do not believe that even the index for Logos would constitute "heavy" use.  Therefore, one should expect good service life and few slowness issues by limiting SSD space to Logos.

Posts 401
Sam West | Forum Activity | Replied: Fri, Apr 20 2012 1:28 AM

Noel Dear:

Thanks Bob.  This is good information.  It sounds like there would be some performance boost.  What is your guess if I just throw a $150 Crucial 128GB SSD into my system as a second drive and then reinstall Logos to that drive leaving everything else untouched?

Noel

I have the same drive in my laptop as my primary drive and love it. the fast boot-up time (18sec)  alone is worth it. i gave $200 when i bought mine

 

Posts 1002
LimJK | Forum Activity | Replied: Fri, Apr 20 2012 1:48 AM

Mark,

Mark:

Thanks Dave for your input.  I recently purchased Samsung ssd 830 series.  I am assuming that is a current generation drive

 

I have been using the Samsung 830 SSD for about half a year. It is fast :-) 13 seconds for cold start. The only concern I have is they do not have firmware update tools for Mac users.

JK

MacBookPro Retina 15" Late 2013 2.6GHz RAM:16GB SSD:500GB macOS Sierra 10.12.3 | iPhone 7 Plus iOS 10.2.1

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Dave Hooton | Forum Activity | Replied: Fri, Apr 20 2012 2:55 AM

David Egolf:
The implication of this would be that one should avoid placing heavily written data on the drives. 

Which is where SSD's with Sandforce controllers  (e.g Intel 520 series and most other makes but not Samsung) have an advantage because they compress the data resulting in fewer writes to the drive. But they can suffer with large amounts of incompressible data like zip files, photos, movie files, MP3 music.

David Egolf:
I do not believe that even the index for Logos would constitute "heavy" use. 

It isn't a heavy write load except during indexing; but it is heavily read.

David Egolf:
Service life has a different distribution on these beasts than with spinning magnetic media. 

If you do not use more than 80% of its capacity you will extend the life of an SSD drive (the excess blocks share the write load). So I would not consider a single drive for Windows and apps that is smaller than 240 GB and never use one smaller than 120 GB; put your photo and music collections on a cheap HDD if necessary. Note that this recommendation is similar to that for HDD's, except that you don't exceed 75% for different reasons!

Dave
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Windows 10 & Android 8

Posts 239
Mikko Paavola | Forum Activity | Replied: Mon, May 7 2012 11:17 AM

I suggest you to get a SSD and install Windows 7 + all your applications to it. It makes the whole system much faster (if the specs of your computer aren't relatively low), because HD is the bottleneck of most of the modern computers nowadays. The usual situation is that CPU is running with light load while waiting for HD to get some data for it to process. Using SSD as a system drive will give your CPU the data needed much faster and you will get more out from your system. It's worth of the work needed to reinstall everything. And you can use your old HD to store data, like images etc.

I have a laptop and a desktop with Win7Pro and same amount of RAM (4GB). The desktop has an ordinary HD, about 50% faster CPU (Core2Duo 3,1GHz) and a much faster GPU than the laptop (Core2Duo 2,1GHz), that has a SSD. My laptob boots up (and shuts down) much faster and programs launches much faster. And Logos lauches, indexes, etc. much faster in my laptop than in my desktop. It's much more fluent to use.

Edit: If your windows is older than Win7, then it's no good idea to buy a SSD, because the older Windowses doesn't support SSDs so well and will wear the SSD out much faster.

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