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Posts 1
Cameron McGough | Forum Activity | Posted: Tue, May 22 2012 11:25 AM

Linux is mature enough in the desktop realm, so are there any plans to have Logos and/or Vyrso for the linux platform?

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Graham Criddle | Forum Activity | Replied: Tue, May 22 2012 11:52 AM

HI Cameron - and welcome to the forums.

Cameron McGough:
Linux is mature enough in the desktop realm, so are there any plans to have Logos and/or Vyrso for the linux platform?

This is been discussed on a number of occasions and there are no current plans to do this.

Graham

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Keep Smiling 4 Jesus :) | Forum Activity | Replied: Tue, May 22 2012 3:03 PM

Cameron McGough:

Linux is mature enough in the desktop realm, so are there any plans to have Logos and/or Vyrso for the linux platform?

Welcome Big Smile

Suggestions forum has threads => Linux version of Logos Bible Software and => YARFL

Currently http://biblia.com is an option for linux to read Logos and Vyrso resources, which are licensed for mobile use.

Another option is an Android development emulator on linux.  Android forum has thread => Faithlife/Logos/Biblia/Vyrso for Android 1.0 Beta 3 Released with download links.

Found an article (with 22 Feb 2012 date) => Your next Linux desktop could be an Android Phone

Likewise found Ubuntu for Android => http://www.ubuntu.com/devices/android

By the way, "linux platform" is a bit vague; as of 21 May 2012, distrowatch has 721 distributions (321 active) in their database => http://distrowatch.com/weekly.php?issue=20120521 plus 281 distributions on a waiting list.

Keep Smiling Smile

Posts 11
Carlos Silva | Forum Activity | Replied: Sat, Aug 11 2012 12:01 AM

I see we are beating a dead horse here again. Have been beating this dead horse for a long time myself.

Some correction:

"linux platform" is a bit vague, really. I would call it prolific. What you are using is incorrect terminology.

Linux is the kernel to all those distros, including android. The distros in your statement are better categorized as gnu/linux, kernel and ui.

Out of those distros 80-85% are debian based. The commercial versions put out by Red Hat, Oracle, Novell to name a few are also debian based but not added in to percentage, but good guess would bring the percentage closer to 90% debian, vague? really.

In fact Apple OS is a very close cousin to linux and gnu/linux since it is based on FreeBSD a BSD Unix OS in fact there is a project that uses the bsd kernel with a linux packaging system, and BSD Unix OS will run in gnu/linux comparability mode so that gnu/linux apps can run on it. I know too much information.

Another fact, majority of web and corporate servers run gnu/linux servers. Really, vague?

 Gnu/linux occupies well over 30-35% of the desktops out there, even running on many Apple system (5-10% market share), and again on Android.

The reason there is no Logos for Linux based systems has more to do with perceived profitability and incorrectly  "perceived vagueness of gnu/linux".

One debian based package offering would be able to run on almost all Unix, gne/linux "distros" out there!

As for the development much has already been done in that area with an Apple, Android (gnu/linux) Wine (API layer) and the new Logos 4,  a considerable amount of the work is already done.

By the way Apples OS which is really FreeBSD Unix OS in it's development stages called Darwin, is developed open source same as Linux, gnu/linux distros, Android, and the many Unix OS's) .

All that said don't hold your breath for a Logos version for the gnu/linux users whose OS is open source (free).

If you enjoy your gnu/linux you can dual boot (waste of space and security hassle), run a visualizer (also free) such as Virtual Box, kvm, Xen ... or commercial offerings such as Codeweaver or Virtual Bridges with a minimal install of Windows (any version) and then install Logos. I prefer kvm but have also tested all the others.

Or use any of the many fine Bible study tools developed for gnu/linux there are many, all good. And there is as also mentioned in previous post, the Internet.

You can also run ESword under Wine (API layer for gnu/Linux, I also use this works very well).

Oh yes you can emulate Android, also but you then have a limited Logos system, go for the virtual machine running Windows, you'll be better off all the way around.

Vague? Please! Big Smile

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Keep Smiling 4 Jesus :) | Forum Activity | Replied: Sat, Aug 11 2012 7:23 AM

Carlos Silva:
"linux platform" is a bit vague, really. I would call it prolific. What you are using is incorrect terminology.

Welcome Big Smile

Apologies:should have included open source terminology with my vague reference.

Carlos Silva:
Out of those distros 80-85% are debian based. The commercial versions put out by Red Hat, Oracle, Novell to name a few are also debian based but not added in to percentage, but good guess would bring the percentage closer to 90% debian, vague? really.

Observation: debian packages (deb) are not installable on Red Hat based distributions, which use red hat package manager (rpm).  Learned Alien software has conversion routines for many open source installation packaging (Linux Standard Base rpm, deb, stampede, solaris, and slackware), which includes a caution about open source distributions having significant variation so installing converted software is risky.

Carlos Silva:
 Gnu/linux occupies well over 30-35% of the desktops out there, even running on many Apple system (5-10% market share), and again on Android.

Curious about source of desktop information.  Looking at internet traffic for web surfing as of June 2012, noticed Windows usage was 70.45%, Apple (Mac 7.46% , iPhone 7.00%, iPad 2.98%) combined usage was 17.44% => http://stats.wikimedia.org/archive/squid_reports/2012-06/SquidReportOperatingSystems.htm  Within 6.26% Linux usage, Android variants dominated: 4.73% (ratio of 3 Android to 1 desktop Linux). Of the individual Linux distributions, the largest was Ubuntu, which had 0.66% usage (out of 1.53% non-Android Linux usage).  By way of comparison, Blackberry had 0.92% usage, which is a bit more than Ubuntu.

Personally Thankful for Logos developing free software for many platforms, which had a combined internet traffic usage of 92.62% (out of 95.27% listed on June 2012 report page, which is a bit less than 100%).

Logos applications are designed to use the internet for resource download plus sync.  As a business, Logos watches market usage, which provided motivation for mobile app development on iOS and Android.  Linux usage has not (yet) provided business justification for application development.

Carlos Silva:
If you enjoy your gnu/linux you can dual boot (waste of space and security hassle), run a visualizer (also free) such as Virtual Box, kvm, Xen ... or commercial offerings such as Codeweaver or Virtual Bridges with a minimal install of Windows (any version) and then install Logos.

CodeWeaver/WINE is not an option for Logos 4 because the open source community has not developed an alternative to Windows Presentation Foundation (WPF).

Carlos Silva:
Oh yes you can emulate Android, also but you then have a limited Logos system, go for the virtual machine running Windows, you'll be better off all the way around.

Concur a Windows virtual machine is currently the best option for running Logos 4 on an open source distribution; albeit an appropriate Windows license for virtual usage is anathema to a number of open source users, hence passionate desire for Logos application(s) for open source use.

Keep Smiling Smile

Posts 11
Carlos Silva | Forum Activity | Replied: Thu, Aug 30 2012 11:59 AM

Wow sorry things have been rather busy.

Consensus a VM for Logos on any OS that isn't Windows or AppleOS. Virtual Box is AWSOME and works on all variants of BSD, Linux, Windows and AppleOS and better still it's FREE.

Speaking of FREE the whole *nix issue, if I recall, quick look, yes your reference to stats at wikimedia are 1:1000 and dependent on user agent being correct so we can't make that a definitive source.

I agree majority of OS use is Windows, I would then put AppleOS and *nix as second. Not going to be dogmatic about it but my research in other areas shows *nix specifically Linux growing in the Desktop realm.

A little insight recent quote from Thomas Bushnell Google corporate manager:

"Put it all together: the need for top-of-the-line security, high-end PC performance, and the flexibility to meet the desktop needs of both genius developers and newly-hired sales representatives, and it's no wonder that Google uses Ubuntu for its desktop operating system of choice. “You'd be a fool to use anything but Linux.”

The Google in house OS is what they call Goobuntu.

The complete interview can be read here http://www.zdnet.com/the-truth-about-goobuntu-googles-in-house-desktop-ubuntu-linux-7000003462/.

And of course the conversation is looking at desktops, like mentioned previously majority of servers are *nix based. Not to mention in the past few weeks since my previous post the number of system I have personally upgraded to a *nix variant.

But again the issue is Logos on your other than Windows and AppleOS  OS, so use a visualizer and you can have Logos and eat your cake too. Big Smile

 

 

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Keep Smiling 4 Jesus :) | Forum Activity | Replied: Sun, Sep 2 2012 8:49 PM

Carlos Silva:
But again the issue is Logos on your other than Windows and AppleOS  OS, so use a visualizer and you can have Logos and eat your cake too. Big Smile

Wonder if "virtualization" or "virtualizer" was meant instead of "visualizer" ?

Wikipedia => http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Visualizer and => http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Virtualizer

Since the open source community does not have an alternative to Windows Presentation Foundation (WPF), suspect the Logos 4 Mac user interface code (Objective C) would be easier to modify for use in open source distribution(s).

Apologies: as a volunteer, not know about the feasibility of modifying Logos 4 Mac user interface code for common shared usage.

The idea of a free Virtual Box image with Logos is attractive, which could be used on open source distributions, Windows, and Mac OS X.

Keep Smiling Smile

Posts 11
Carlos Silva | Forum Activity | Replied: Fri, Sep 7 2012 11:33 PM

 "virtualization" or "virtualizer" thanks for typo correction.

Keep Smiling 4 Jesus :):

Since the open source community does not have an alternative to Windows Presentation Foundation (WPF), suspect the Logos 4 Mac user interface code (Objective C) would be easier to modify for use in open source distribution(s).

Apologies: as a volunteer, not know about the feasibility of modifying Logos 4 Mac user interface code for common shared usage.

 

Sounds like it should be feasible, but because of the proprietery nature of both the Apple UI and of Windows such an appliance would be illegal unless licensed by the perspective entities. \

Hower Android is a differnt matter it shares the same kernel as Linux and so underlying system is already there to further development and is  open source under the Apache License version 2.0,[127][128][129] and the rest, Linux kernel changes, under the GNU General Public License version 2. Also almost all Linux distros are open source licensing.

Thereby making Logos VM appliaces extremely feasible for not just VB but vmware, xen and kvm using any major distro. In fact if this were a goal for Logos they could get an immense amount of help from the WINE project to develop Logos to run under WINE in any Linux distro, THIS WAS SUGGESTED SEVERAL YEARS AGO ALREADY. At that time I was told there weren't any plans to ever support  Linux.

So stop holding your breathes for Linux support, you don't look good all blue, run a vm find an old windows os do a minimal instll then install your Logos, after all remember we live in a fallen world not perfect yet.

There are many ways to accomplish support for Linux, but there is no willingness for Logos to do so.

Oops P.S.

From Logos "future releases of Logos Bible Software will require Windows Vista SP2 or newer from now on." Just found out. With Windows 8 out soon Vista probably has support for a couple more years at least.

None of the VM stuff is difficult if anybody has any questions please post and will work with you on it. Only Windows I run on my system is VM and only to run Logos so it take very little space and resources.

Posts 11
Carlos Silva | Forum Activity | Replied: Tue, Oct 16 2012 11:23 AM

This should probably go into a different post but with  html5, css3 and javascript standards (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/HTML5#New_APIs) Logos, if they were so inclined, could very easily provide a totally OS independent product !!!!!!

One would think this would be to their benefit, but who knows, as that is wholly dependent on how deeply Logos is tied into the pockets of Apple, Microsoft and Google.

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Keep Smiling 4 Jesus :) | Forum Activity | Replied: Tue, Oct 16 2012 10:31 PM

Carlos Silva:
This should probably go into a different post but with  html5, css3 and javascript standards (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/HTML5#New_APIs) Logos, if they were so inclined, could very easily provide a totally OS independent product !!!!!!

Logos also uses a number of SQLite database files.  Noted html5, css3, and javascript are primarily web browser for user interaction; Logos has substantially more.

By the way, Ubuntu is sponsored by a U.K. based company => http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ubuntu_%28operating_system%29

Keep Smiling Smile

Posts 403
777 | Forum Activity | Replied: Wed, Oct 17 2012 3:07 AM

Android is about as close as you're going to get to this with Logos. Ever.

Posts 1558
Ken McGuire | Forum Activity | Replied: Wed, Oct 17 2012 1:43 PM

I want to like Linux - I really do.  It does so many things well.  I used Ubuntu to rescue my laptop's data when the Hard Drive was failing, and I saw that it has come so far from the Slackware I played with way back.

But there are issues.  There are two different package formats to distribute programs.  Yes, the .deb format seems to be winning now, but sometimes the old .deb packages don't work on new setups and so it is back to compiling tarballs.  With open source, this is not a problem. But for something like Logos...

While Logos software is technically free, making the source available could quite easily be a roadblock for licensing books from nervous publishers.  The content available is why I like Logos so much.

It is quite frustrating to see videos of MS Office running under WINE, but Logos cannot.  But, for better or worse, Logos developed version 4 with libraries that are not emulated (and libraries where they couldn't get Logos to print when version 4 came out)

We will see what happens with Windows 8 comes out.  It is possible that Linux will get a serious shot at the desktop market.  But now it does not have the market share.

The Gospel is not ... a "new law," on the contrary, ... a "new life." - William Julius Mann

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Keep Smiling 4 Jesus :) | Forum Activity | Replied: Thu, Oct 18 2012 9:30 PM

Kenneth McGuire:
But there are issues.  There are two different package formats to distribute programs.  Yes, the .deb format seems to be winning now, but sometimes the old .deb packages don't work on new setups and so it is back to compiling tarballs. 

Observation: deb and tarball are two package formats => http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Linux_package_formats

An alternative to software packaging is creating a virtual machine, then share disk image.

Carlos Silva:
None of the VM stuff is difficult if anybody has any questions please post and will work with you on it. Only Windows I run on my system is VM and only to run Logos so it take very little space and resources.

Logos wiki has a Logos 4 Mac page that has a number of virtualization links =>  http://wiki.logos.com/Logos_4_Mac#Need_Logos_4_PC_feature.3f

Keep Smiling Smile

Posts 22
Benjamin Tan | Forum Activity | Replied: Mon, Dec 17 2012 5:59 PM

I'm dual booting a Dell E520, and running Ubuntu 12.04 LTS 90%+ of the time and the only reason why I run Win8 is because of Logos. Sadly, I am growing more and more reluctant booting up Logos 4 as Win 8 is slow on my hardware, time just gets sucked away with waiting. Logos 5 is probably going to make that worse.

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Dan Francis | Forum Activity | Replied: Mon, Dec 17 2012 9:20 PM

Benjamin I am sorry to hear about your troubles, I know this is no comfort to you but Logos has stated many times they have no plans on making a unix version (I am sure your voice will not go un-noted, and perhaps if there is enough interest one day it may happen. http://biblia.com in the mean time some basic functionality that may offer you some less need to open your windows if you just need to reference a resource quickly. You likely were already aware of it but I thought I would offer you option if you were not. I believe Logos is planing on offering more options on the Biblia since it is still labeled as Beta. Good luck. Does anyone know if Logos 5 is WINE compatible?

-Dan 

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Keep Smiling 4 Jesus :) | Forum Activity | Replied: Mon, Dec 17 2012 9:59 PM

Benjamin Tan:

I'm dual booting a Dell E520, and running Ubuntu 12.04 LTS 90%+ of the time and the only reason why I run Win8 is because of Logos. Sadly, I am growing more and more reluctant booting up Logos 4 as Win 8 is slow on my hardware, time just gets sucked away with waiting. Logos 5 is probably going to make that worse.

Welcome Big Smile

Logos 5 tends to respond quicker than Logos 4.

If have enough computer resources, could run Windows in a virtual machine for Logos use.  Essentially using Windows as an application enabler for Logos on Linux.  Oracle's Virtual Box is free.  Caveat: Windows license is not free. Logos 5 needs Windows Vista or newer.

Dan Francis:

Does anyone know if Logos 5 is WINE compatible?

CodeWeaver/WINE is not an option for Logos 5 because the open source community has not developed an alternative to Windows Presentation Foundation (WPF).   Logos 5 uses .NET Framework 4.5 that has a corresponding mono release, but WPF still lacks an open source alternative.

Keep Smiling Smile

Posts 22
Benjamin Tan | Forum Activity | Replied: Sun, Dec 23 2012 9:24 PM

Keep Smiling 4 Jesus :):
Logos 5 tends to respond quicker than Logos 4.

I guess I can take a punt and spend about $150 on a cross-grade to find out.  But, little comfort, I still have to boot up the slow Win8.  Ubuntu 12.04 runs fast and trouble free it's got a great automatic updater. I've also been running it without anti virus for the past 4 months no problems what so ever, I've installed one now though because of the XP in VB.

Keep Smiling 4 Jesus :):
If have enough computer resources, could run Windows in a virtual machine for Logos use.  Essentially using Windows as an application enabler for Logos on Linux.  Oracle's Virtual Box is free.  Caveat: Windows license is not free. Logos 5 needs Windows Vista or newer.

I am doing just that right now. I've installed OVB and XP (got licence). I got licence for Vista too but that was the root of my problem, the automatic Windows Updater just will not or cannot provide me with an orderly update to SP2.  I tried installing one update at a time and rebooting  between each (probably stressed my PC) and all without an antivirus software!!. I'm not too keen on trying that again even in Virtual installation as it takes much time and no guarantee of success.  For a professional paid O/S, WIndows is frustratingly bad software.

Now I am just waiting for some free time before attempting Logos 4 on OVB.

 

Posts 22
Benjamin Tan | Forum Activity | Replied: Thu, Jan 24 2013 10:46 PM

I read that Logos4 requires minimum of 2 GB or RAM.  Unfortunately I've installed the 32bit Ubuntu 12.04LTS and can only allocate maybe 1GB of that.  Does anyone have experience with running Logos4 in VirtualBox? How much memory do you need to allocate to it for decent usability?

Posts 8868
fgh | Forum Activity | Replied: Fri, Jan 25 2013 12:26 AM

I ran Logos on a Mac with 2GB RAM for two years. I do not recommend it. It required multiple restarts every day, and even then it was slower than molasses. 

"The Christian way of life isn't so much an assignment to be performed, as a gift to be received."  Wilfrid Stinissen

Mac Pro OS 10.9.

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Keep Smiling 4 Jesus :) | Forum Activity | Replied: Sat, Jan 26 2013 10:23 AM

Benjamin Tan:
I read that Logos4 requires minimum of 2 GB or RAM.  Unfortunately I've installed the 32bit Ubuntu 12.04LTS and can only allocate maybe 1GB of that. 

Curious about RAM ? 32 bit installation implies 4 GB or less of RAM.

Benjamin Tan:
Does anyone have experience with running Logos4 in VirtualBox? How much memory do you need to allocate to it for decent usability?

On a Mac with 16 GB RAM and 64 bit kernel enabled (switched from 32 bit), ran Logos 4 in two virtual machines: Windows XP 32 bit and 64 bit.  Remember Logos 4 taking about 20 % longer to index library in 32 bit virtual machine compared to 64 bit Windows.

Also remember changing from 32 bit to 64 bit kernel changed RAM usage.  Hypothesis was doubling RAM from 4 GB to 8 GB would sufficient, but learned that 8 GB was not enough for the applications wanted to use.

Unrelated to Logos: am aware of a nasty Java vulnerability that affects Linux, OS X, and Windows => https://www.kb.cert.org/vuls/id/625617 so disabling Java in web browsers is prudent.

Keep Smiling Smile

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