Logos prejudice proven (timeline of authors of "collected works")

Page 1 of 2 (22 items) 1 2 Next >
This post has 21 Replies | 1 Follower

Posts 32168
Forum MVP
MJ. Smith | Forum Activity | Posted: Tue, Jul 3 2012 6:27 PM

Okay, the subject line belongs on a tabloid but honest, how would you interpret this timeline if not showing that Logos favors English language resources after 1500 A.D.Angel I have coded the data with denominational data but only distinguished Jewish, Catholic, Other by color as I'm not confident in some of my denominational classifications. This is not complete - it's not easy to get the Logos website to select the collections I wanted.

I'll gladly add additional people to the chart or even color code additional denominations if given the data. Notes: people for whom I didn't find dates live and die in 1900. People who haven't died are arbitrarily killed off in 2100.

Orthodox Bishop Hilarion Alfeyev: "To be a theologian means to have experience of a personal encounter with God through prayer and worship."

Posts 297
Hapax Legomena | Forum Activity | Replied: Tue, Jul 3 2012 6:46 PM

Missing Brown, Fitzmyer, Ratzinger . . . to name a few.

Posts 853
Jack Hairston | Forum Activity | Replied: Tue, Jul 3 2012 7:37 PM

You don't suppose that the more recent works would sell better, do you? <duck and run>

Posts 602
Bill Anderson | Forum Activity | Replied: Tue, Jul 3 2012 7:43 PM

Missing Max Lucado.

Posts 32168
Forum MVP
MJ. Smith | Forum Activity | Replied: Tue, Jul 3 2012 7:45 PM

Jack Hairston:
You don't suppose that the more recent works would sell better, do you? <duck and run>

Not likely. Logos' best seller was completed about 100 A.D. and was in Hebrew/Greek not EnglishBig Smile

Orthodox Bishop Hilarion Alfeyev: "To be a theologian means to have experience of a personal encounter with God through prayer and worship."

Posts 1134
Tom Reynolds | Forum Activity | Replied: Tue, Jul 3 2012 11:00 PM

Personally I think Logos is prejudiced towards what sells in large numbers. Of course this has been self reinforcing but they are currently working on expanding their customer base so they can sell even more to even more.

Posts 32168
Forum MVP
MJ. Smith | Forum Activity | Replied: Wed, Jul 4 2012 12:35 AM

Tom Reynolds:
Personally I think Logos is prejudiced towards what sells in large numbers

True - and the number of books available to print is greater after the printing press was introduced. But neither of those explanations are as fun.Smile

Orthodox Bishop Hilarion Alfeyev: "To be a theologian means to have experience of a personal encounter with God through prayer and worship."

Posts 1674
Paul N | Forum Activity | Replied: Wed, Jul 4 2012 1:50 AM

MJ. Smith:
But neither of those explanations are as fun.Smile

 

lol!

Posts 1795
Ken McGuire | Forum Activity | Replied: Wed, Jul 4 2012 4:36 AM

MJ. Smith:

Tom Reynolds:
Personally I think Logos is prejudiced towards what sells in large numbers

True - and the number of books available to print is greater after the printing press was introduced. But neither of those explanations are as fun.Smile

Also the Logos customer base is dominated by English speakers and for most of Church History English was NOT the #1 theological language.  Speaking as a Lutheran, I know that quite a bit of historically important theology has never been translated into English - both from the Evangelical side as well as Rome's, let alone the Eastern church.

Unfortunately there are few that can really pick up and read Migne, for example, anymore.

 

The Gospel is not ... a "new law," on the contrary, ... a "new life." - William Julius Mann

L8 Anglican, Lutheran and Orthodox Silver, Reformed Starter, Academic Essentials

L7 Lutheran Gold, Anglican Bronze

Posts 645
Dean J | Forum Activity | Replied: Wed, Jul 4 2012 6:11 AM

I think we should be very careful about using a weighted word like prejudice. 'Preference' would be better. 

It's like when the RC calls their guy the 'apologist', and the other guy the 'anti-catholic'. 

I had a laugh seeing all the early church fathers shaded the same color as later roman catholic writers. 

I think George Salmon summed up the situation very well:

"An unlearned Protestant perceives that the doctrine of Rome is not the doctrine of the Bible.  A learned Protestant adds that neither is it the doctrine of the primitive Church."

I realize I'm treading a fine line here with this post. I suggest that our rc posters refrain from prejudiced posts which mislabel others and which make sectarian claims. 

Posts 9947
George Somsel | Forum Activity | Replied: Wed, Jul 4 2012 6:38 AM

Bill Anderson:

Missing Max Lucado.

If only Hmm (plus a few others)

george
gfsomsel

יְמֵי־שְׁנוֹתֵינוּ בָהֶם שִׁבְעִים שָׁנָה וְאִם בִּגְבוּרֹת שְׁמוֹנִים שָׁנָה וְרָהְבָּם עָמָל וָאָוֶן

Posts 9947
George Somsel | Forum Activity | Replied: Wed, Jul 4 2012 6:40 AM

Kenneth McGuire:
Unfortunately there are few that can really pick up and read Migne, for example, anymore.

Tolle lege.  You will only be able to do it if you make the attempt.

george
gfsomsel

יְמֵי־שְׁנוֹתֵינוּ בָהֶם שִׁבְעִים שָׁנָה וְאִם בִּגְבוּרֹת שְׁמוֹנִים שָׁנָה וְרָהְבָּם עָמָל וָאָוֶן

Posts 5620
Todd Phillips | Forum Activity | Replied: Wed, Jul 4 2012 7:20 AM

MJ. Smith:
I'll gladly add additional people to the chart or even color code additional denominations if given the data.

It seems to me that you should add all of the writers included in the Early Church Fathers.

Wiki Links: Enabling Logging / Detailed Search Help - MacBook Pro (2014), ThinkPad E570

Posts 8899
fgh | Forum Activity | Replied: Wed, Jul 4 2012 8:14 AM

Hapax Legomena:

Missing Brown, Fitzmyer, Ratzinger . . . to name a few.

Todd Phillips:
It seems to me that you should add all of the writers included in the Early Church Fathers.

None of these are "Collected Works" (as in the thread title). More like "Selected Works".

(Well, perhaps a few of the Fathers are, but it would be an awful lot of work to figure out which.)

(Actually, not all of those included are "collected" either. We certainly don't have everything by Aquinas.)

 

"The Christian way of life isn't so much an assignment to be performed, as a gift to be received."  Wilfrid Stinissen

Mac Pro OS 10.9.

Posts 5620
Todd Phillips | Forum Activity | Replied: Wed, Jul 4 2012 8:49 AM

fgh:

Hapax Legomena:

Missing Brown, Fitzmyer, Ratzinger . . . to name a few.

 

Todd Phillips:
It seems to me that you should add all of the writers included in the Early Church Fathers.

None of these are "Collected Works" (as in the thread title). More like "Selected Works".

(Well, perhaps a few of the Fathers are, but it would be an awful lot of work to figure out which.)

(Actually, not all of those included are "collected" either. We certainly don't have everything by Aquinas.)

Many of the "collected" works are not complete.  So Collected = Selected.

Also, many of the ECF authors are extensively represented in the ECF: Augustine, Chrysostom, Tertullian.

Wiki Links: Enabling Logging / Detailed Search Help - MacBook Pro (2014), ThinkPad E570

Posts 3738
BillS | Forum Activity | Replied: Wed, Jul 4 2012 8:58 AM

MJ. Smith:
how would you interpret this timeline

Hi Martha, before sharing my thought, I want to commend you on your effort & chartsmanship... whether or not you forgot a few works isn't nearly as interesting as what possible causes might be... Before I go on, NICE WORK! Here are alternative thoughts pointing toward different possibilities for looking at the same data:

  1. Is it possible the chart doesn't reveal so much logos' bias as much as it does their customers' bias--that Logos is developing what they can sell enough of to remain in business & grow?
  2. Is it possible to a lesser extent that the chart also reveals human population growth----that there are simply more writers of enough "interest" to choose from after 1500 AD ("interest" (= possible sales, see #1; re AD, can't bring myself to take Domini out of the centerpoint of time by referring to it as CE, though I understand & support those who do)?
  3. And is it also possible that if we also plotted what year these resources were developed & what year publisher accords were reached (with implied commitment to publish their resources), that the data might also correlate to Logos growth?

Just a few thoughts leading to other alternatives than any INTENDED bias on Logos' part, even if the result is as one sided as you've shown.

Many blessings to you.

Grace & Peace,
Bill


MSI GF63 8RD, I-7 8850H, 32GB RAM, 1TB SSD, 2TB HDD, NVIDIA GTX 1050Max
iPhone 12 Pro Max 512Gb
Fire 10HD 64GB 7th Gen

Posts 3738
BillS | Forum Activity | Replied: Wed, Jul 4 2012 9:01 AM

George Somsel:

If only Hmm (plus a few others)

Stop holding back, George. Are you REALLY implying that you hold Max in the same high regard as interlinears? Wink

Grace & Peace,
Bill


MSI GF63 8RD, I-7 8850H, 32GB RAM, 1TB SSD, 2TB HDD, NVIDIA GTX 1050Max
iPhone 12 Pro Max 512Gb
Fire 10HD 64GB 7th Gen

Posts 9947
George Somsel | Forum Activity | Replied: Wed, Jul 4 2012 9:18 AM

BillS:

George Somsel:

If only Hmm (plus a few others)

 

Stop holding back, George. Are you REALLY implying that you hold Max in the same high regard as interlinears? Wink

It's close.  I don't have much use for modern more "devotional" works.  The reader should be able to make the application to his own situation.

george
gfsomsel

יְמֵי־שְׁנוֹתֵינוּ בָהֶם שִׁבְעִים שָׁנָה וְאִם בִּגְבוּרֹת שְׁמוֹנִים שָׁנָה וְרָהְבָּם עָמָל וָאָוֶן

Posts 825
JRS | Forum Activity | Replied: Wed, Jul 4 2012 10:02 AM

George Somsel:
I don't have much use for modern more "devotional" works.

Amen.

[edit: I was going to say that they tend to be a mile wide and an inch deep, but that might be controversial, so I won't]

JRS has left the building.

Posts 32168
Forum MVP
MJ. Smith | Forum Activity | Replied: Wed, Jul 4 2012 11:56 AM

Dean053:
I think we should be very careful about using a weighted word like prejudice.

I hope it was clear that I was teasing

Dean053:
I had a laugh seeing all the early church fathers shaded the same color as later roman catholic writers. 

I would have colored them Catholic/Orthodox if I had the ability to shade in 2 colors.

Dean053:
I suggest that our rc posters refrain from prejudiced posts which mislabel others and which make sectarian claims. 

I certainly did not intend to do either. I apologize to all who take the post in that manner. In a broad sweep, I see the Church as essentially 2 threads for the 1st millenium - Eastern (Nestorian) and Byzantine/Western.

Orthodox Bishop Hilarion Alfeyev: "To be a theologian means to have experience of a personal encounter with God through prayer and worship."

Page 1 of 2 (22 items) 1 2 Next > | RSS