Your input needed: Faithlife Study Bible

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Posts 7
Joel Bennett | Forum Activity | Replied: Sun, Jul 8 2012 11:06 PM

I believe they both do. Certainly OneNote has always seemed capable in Americanish, and I am pretty sure it's as multi-lingual (dialectal?) as the rest of MS Office Wink

You know, I really do find Logos' (Windows) desktop software the best for taking notes in sermons though -- being able to click on a verse and send it to the notes document I have open in the other pane is great, but having it all hyperlinked together (and the highlights in my Bible) afterward is priceless. It's just not always practical to take notes on a laptop during sermons, and I'd love to have that functionality on a phone/tablet.  Maybe I'll get a Windows 8 tablet later this year and this won't matter Stick out tongue

Unix:

I just use Microsoft Word to take notes in sermon. Worry later where to attach them. Does OneNote or Evernote have British spell check equivalent to at least Word for Windows 2002?

Joel Bennett:
Obviously this feature isn't made for taking notes in a sermon (more frustration), [...] guess I'll have to stick to OneNote for that.

 

Posts 514
John Duffy | Forum Activity | Replied: Mon, Jul 9 2012 12:04 PM
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Bob Pritchett:
I’d appreciate hearing your thoughts, as well as feedback on the FSB itself.

Hi Bob, the FSB is a great concept, releasing the 'Study Bible' from the constraints of a heavy, small-print, limited content, paper product to an electronic resource with all its associated features and possibilities. 

Here are some thoughts on take up of it, from my point of view (sorry for the number of words - they just sort of kept on coming!):

  1. Firstly, it is a (minor) perception issue.  The fact that 'community notes' can be integrated into FSB initially appeared to me to seem like the notes in the FSB were 'all' from the 'community.'  Most people want high quality notes, not the musings of the average user.  I know it was a mistaken perception from not having looked into it much at all, initially, but it is one that a few others might also have had. If the community notes and interactive aspects are marketed less prominently, and the main personal use is more to the fore, I think it would be more attractive.
  2. Second, the payment model has difficulties with (1) 'free' meaning a free trial period before a 'subscription' applies, (2) the relatively high price for the on-going subscription compared to the one-off purchase of a hard copy study bible, and (3) many people's preference of an outright purchase to a subscription.  The last of these could be addressed by offering (1) a purchase version with a one-off price which would have updates limited to 12 months and with optional updates later on with costs proportionate to the period since purchased/upgraded, or (2) a subscription version which is cheaper than a full purchase but which is limited to 12 months at a time, or (3) as I think someone else mentioned, different levels of notes available for different prices (entry level either free or at a low cost, with the full or premium notes available for a higher cost).
  3. With only a sideways glance of FSB initially, I imagined it to be another way to access Logos resources, or an alternative way to access/purchase/subscribe to what I already have (in other forms) in my Logos software or on the Android (or Apple) app.  I think that it could be more clearly promoted as an electronic 'Study Bible.'  There are several popular 'study bibles' in use, and for me the marketing for FSB didn't seem to promote it sufficiently within that product category.
  4. Another problem, however, is precisely that it is a 'study' Bible.  While sales and marketing people might look at the millions of 'Bible' apps that have been downloaded, there is a fundamental error in comparing those apps with the FSB.  While they have in common that they are apps, they are nevertheless very different products.  Other 'Bible' apps are essentially Bible 'reading' apps, not Bible 'study' apps.  To make a hard copy comparison, what are the statistics between the proportion of 'Study Bibles' sold to plain 'Bibles'?  I would estimate it at lower than 0.1%, although I really don't have any data to go on.  The point is that if there is a market for say 40,000,000 Bible 'reading' apps, we should then expect that there might be a market for maybe only 40,000 Bible 'study' apps.  At least initially, but as more people see the advantages of FSB, it could be adopted by those who don't normally use 'study' Bibles.
  5. However, the biggest problem seems to me to be that it is difficult to move many people from an approach to personal use of the Bible that centres of devotion/piety or evangelism to one of more serious Bible 'study'.  Most people want to 'read' the Bible alongside their devotional resources, but not 'study' it using other resources (I know that reading the Bible is studying it, but the comparison I make is that one is just using the Bible while another consults other helpful resources by learned authors).  There is a cultural shift needed here.  Without minimising the importance and spirituality of devotional use of the Bible on its own, too many people seem content to have their serious Bible 'study' packaged in sizeable portions in Sunday sermons, or weekday Bible 'studies', etc, by others.  People want Bible 'reading' apps, but they don't want Bible 'study' apps as much, so it can't be expected to go as viral as Bible 'reading' apps.  However, with such a great product, the culture of reluctance to get into Bible 'study' might be crossed.  Yet, I expect that for many who would not think of themselves as natural users of Bible 'study' software, they may need to be encouraged into joining this group, by helpful marketing. 
    Here is where the sales model is problematic again, to me.  Purchase-based sales make good gifts, time-limited subscriptions less so.  But if an entry-level subscription price were low enough, I would get it for all the family, in the hope that they would want to upgrade soon!
  6. Also, of those who do Bible 'study,' and who are not already using Bible software, but are using hard copy commentaries etc, I would imagine that they would seem to prefer changing to Bible software for their primary use, rather than an app.  It is easier to recommend them to get more serious, to take it up a level, and purchase an entry level Logos 4 package, than to use an app that seems to be either to be a more complicated sideways move, or perceived to be a less serious way of doing Bible 'study' than their existing hard copy method.

A major selling point on the FSB is 'seeing' it in use as a ‘study’ Bible.  The video is excellent in showing this.  If marketing was also to use still shots (e.g. in emails or webpages for those who don't want to view the video) that show it’s use being very similar in its basic use to a hard copy ‘study’ Bible then I think that that would enhance understanding of the product much more, and help it take off.

Posts 60
Rustamania | Forum Activity | Replied: Mon, Jul 9 2012 12:57 PM

Bob Pritchett:
The FSB is our biggest content project ever, and we have a lot of marketing effort coming up. But we started with our existing user base, and have been surprised at how quiet the response (and sharing with others) has been. I think there are some community pricing titles that get more buzz! [smile]

A few thoughts:

  1. It took me a long time to figure out what it was.  I guess because I am not that smart, but since faithlife and the FSB came out at the same time, I spent a lot of time trying to figure out how the two relate.  I probably should have just accepted the FSB as study bible and not messed with faithlife.  I watched the videos and still didn't understand how the two related or why they were being released at the same time.  I had to play around with it for a while to figure out the concept.  I imagine most of the people that are interested in a starter version aren't going to take the time to figure out how the two relate.  The videos on the site gave a good overview, but it didn't give any details.  It takes a while to figure out and most people won't take the time.
  2. It seems the app is most useful from a tablet.  I don't have a tablet.  Any bible stuff I do on my phone are quick look-ups of verses or bible memory apps.  The rest is on my computer.
  3. Community notes are cool and could be useful for my community group, but think about what it will take to get them using it (this is for only 4 couples).  First, I have to get them to sign up for FSB, then they have to sign up for faithlife, then I have to get them on our group, then I have to teach them how to create a note and how to post it to our group (which i don't get a notification for).  Also, this assumes that all of these people have a tablet, which only 2 of the 8 do.  I know they can use it on Biblia, but that's something else I would have to teach them to do.  I have a hard enough time getting people to read the section or do the study, much less try to get them to do all of this.  It's really just too much.  

I love the idea, just haven't seen how I can integrate it on a broad spectrum yet.  Maybe just telling them its another app on their phone they could use would get them to try it out, but trying to get people to utilize the full functionality doesn't seem realistic right now.

 

 

 

 

Posts 1880
Philana Crouch | Forum Activity | Replied: Mon, Jul 9 2012 2:19 PM

Jason rust:

First, I have to get them to sign up for FSB, then they have to sign up for faithlife, then I have to get them on our group, then I have to teach them how to create a note and how to post it to our group (which i don't get a notification for).  

Jason,

Once the sign up for FSB they have signed up for Faithlife. They can access Faithlife directly from the homepage within the app. Also if you are all studying the same lesson the note will show up at the place they add it, so when you read the verse the note shows up. Also they could share the Scripture to the group and note that they have added a note there.

Posts 44
LogosEmployee
John D. Barry | Forum Activity | Replied: Mon, Jul 9 2012 4:03 PM

Thank you everyone for your comments and feedback. Here are some links that you may want to explore:

 

 

Posts 6717
Forum MVP
Lynden Williams | Forum Activity | Replied: Mon, Jul 9 2012 4:19 PM

Joel Bennett:
There's one feature I wouldn't mine requiring an internet connection for, and that's taking notes "together" with someone else so we could see what each person's written ... guess I'll have to stick to OneNote for that.

Joel, this can be done by creating a group and sharing the info with the individual (s) in that group. "Focus on the Word" is one such a group.

Lynden Williams Communications https://www.lyndenwilliams.net 

Posts 6717
Forum MVP
Lynden Williams | Forum Activity | Replied: Mon, Jul 9 2012 4:31 PM

I like the app and use it for my sermons. I attach a note to a verse of scripture (I have created a group just for my sermon notes, I am the only member) drag the passage to my favourites folder, and let it sync. Most of my work is done on the desktop. When I go to church, I preach from the tablet. I should add, that I seldom preach from a manuscript.

It would be good if the notes would pop up like the scripture references does, rather than flying out.

Why not allow the user to purchase the FSB, then offer an upgrade for a small fee. Similar to the Theological Journal Library. This can be done once a year.

Lynden Williams Communications https://www.lyndenwilliams.net 

Posts 2878
Mike Childs | Forum Activity | Replied: Mon, Jul 9 2012 4:40 PM

I would expect any electronic Bible to at least do a concordance search.  How do you do a concordance search in Faithlife?  Even my paper study Bibles have a simple inadequate conconrdance.  I must be missing something.  It must surely do concordance searches.

"In all cases, the Church is to be judged by the Scripture, not the Scripture by the Church," John Wesley

Posts 694
Steve Maling | Forum Activity | Replied: Mon, Jul 9 2012 5:16 PM

Thank you, John, for gathering four links into one email for those of us needing to know something about the perspective of and the contributors to the FSB and the LBD.

Is there any chance that the institutions at which the contributors received their highest degree could be included.

Thank you, too, for your patience as we customers come up with ever more requests!

May the peace of Christ be with you and your colleagues.

Posts 59
Eric Ruhnow | Forum Activity | Replied: Mon, Jul 9 2012 9:07 PM

I have to agree with many of the posters already that the price is the main factor for my reservations in recommending the FSB to anyone beyond the FREE period.

Other than being well formatted for Logos, there isn't much that I have seen (at this point) that is much different from other digital or "dead-tree" study bibles that seems worth paying $29.95 a year for access.

The LEB is available for FREE to anyone using Logos and the other Study Bibles that Logos offers, max out at a one-time price of $39.95 (for just the notes). I just cannot see the value of the online community features at a $30/year price point.

Not to sound rude, but that price point premium sits as well to me as the old AOL dial-up premium.

~$10/year for access, plus a guarantee of regular additions to the study notes seems a bit more reasonable compared to the prices available for other mobile apps.

I know this is more than a mobile app (with the availability of the FSB in the desktop version of Logos 4), but we are not purchasing the FSB, only licensing use of the resource through the yearly subscription.

As the resource stands, I will have to pass on it once the FREE period ends, and could not in good conscience recommend such a pricey resource to others.

Lenovo TS130 Xeon E3-1245V2 | 20GB | 256 GB SSD (OS and Logos) | 3TB WD Red | Windows 10 Pro x64

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Posts 152
Ryan | Forum Activity | Replied: Mon, Jul 9 2012 10:30 PM

Subscription = No Interest

Posts 226
Michael A. Lasley | Forum Activity | Replied: Tue, Jul 10 2012 6:17 AM

I recognize that the FSB is a good business model because a company needs ongoing revenue to support operations so they can stay in business. Gradually sales of new product will level off and the support expenses must be paid. I shudder to think what will happen when new sales start falling and eventually you have to shut your operation down. That would take the Logos library management away and leave us with whatever local resources we have until computers and software change enough so that it will no longer run. I want to think I am making a library that will last forever and that when I die I can give it to someone else to give them the benefit of what I was able to put together.

However, it seems the FSB is sort of like a timeshare property which I also have experience with. Prospective clients are given free access and then when they start to like the product, they find they not only have a large initial purchase(logos 4 library) but they have ongoing maintenance fees also. They gain prospects from current owners with perks for recommendations, but the client has to commit to an ongoing expense and they will remember you as the one that got them involved if that expense becomes unbearable. So I do not recommend people for timeshare properties and probably will not recommend Faithlife due to the monthly charge that will eventually appear. I do recommend Logos4 to everyone and will continue doing this. My fear is that you are expanding too quickly, hiring too many people and putting at risk your continuing operations to support your primary purpose which is to keep everyone's purchased library running until the Lord returns.

Do you have a succession plan for your company? You are selling more than just books. I realize as I write this that some day we might be asked to pay an ongoing maintenance fee just to keep your servers running and someone on staff to keep the software updated to current technology. I'll stop because I don't like to think how dependent we are on your continued survival for the large investment we have made in our libraries.

Posts 4
hal | Forum Activity | Replied: Tue, Jul 10 2012 7:02 AM

I am having trouble with faithlife community notes. On some computers the community notes post and other computers they don't seem to post. Is there a way to fix this as our church is trying to use faithlife for daily devotions between members

 

Posts 11433
DMB | Forum Activity | Replied: Tue, Jul 10 2012 8:38 AM

Like the issue of 'who wrote it', the subscription is also interesting. At our church, we regularly subscribe to broadcasted material (or DVD) that usually comes with a book. Each person (typically us ladies it seems) pays about $20 with the ones having job challenges covered by someone else. We dutifully fill out each chapter each week, watch the presenter and then go over our work and thoughts.

I wonder if the 'subscription' concept is being compared to a paid library (which I prefer), and not to how many churches work in small groups.

I still think everything is in the packaging. A church that wants to get folks involved in Bible study ESPECIALLY for people with limited time, kids running around, etc, something like FaithLife is going to be a very good solution. It obviously still have some challenges just like Proclaim.

But combine that with Proclaim (namely the guy/gal with expertise that can help Faithlife users) and maybe the pastor with Logos4. The concept just needs 'filling out'.

Plus we struggle a LOT with our youth; we're such a small church 'how?'. But there's bunches of evangelical churches in our valley that work together. Wow, what an opportunity. People say 'Facebook!'. But the key is the community notes that can stay within a pastoral world.

I agree on the $30. There's  a mental pricepoint there that's considerably different from $19..95.

"God will save his fallen angels and their broken wings He'll mend."

Posts 98
Ed Blough | Forum Activity | Replied: Tue, Jul 10 2012 8:39 AM

Here is my take. I got a note from somewhere that I could download a free resource. That sounded good, so I followed the directions and got the Faithlife Bible. 

Thanks!

Played with it for a few minutes and that was it. 

Then about a week ago I came to the forum and saw mention of the Faithlife community???????  Went to the site to find out what Faithlife was all about. However all I saw was a lot of dancing bear type hypes but almost no information. Looked around for a little while, got bored and left.

Today saw this thread and got interested again.  Tried to find some real information on faithlife and what you all are talking about but I didn't find any "real" information. 

I saw where to sign up but sign up for what?  Absolutely no where that I could find was there any mention that I would be asked to pay anything one day.  

I think I'm above average intelligence, fairly computer savvy, and possessing some grasp of the English language but I am left with an overwhelming feeling that I don't have the "rest of the story."  

My opinion, you need to stop trying to be cleaver.  Announce the product, be upfront and mention that one day there will be a charge and then detail what I can expect Faithlife will do for me and why I would want to pay for it.  

And No!  I will not pay $29 to read unknown people pontificating on Bible verses.  

Right now I have spent probably 2 hours messing around and I still don't know exactly what Faithlife is or what it does.

And no, I will not be signing up until I fully understand what it is I'm signing up for, what I can expect it to do for me and/or my church and whether or not there will be charges now or in the future.

Posts 60
Rustamania | Forum Activity | Replied: Tue, Jul 10 2012 9:33 AM

I agree with what some of Ed says.  I spent a lot of time trying to figure out what it is and how it works and how I am supposed to use it.  Someone needs to put something together about how the entire things works together with some details.

I personally think it is cool and would love to utilize it.  The problem that I see, however, is that I am fairly tech savy and I really can't imagine getting even 20% of my friends to set this up and actually use it.  It's just easier to sit down with them for 5 minutes in front of a Bible or post something on facebook (even though this is different and works better).  I hope i am wrong.  I could see it take off if my pastor used it and a portion of the population of our church wanted to see his notes or wanted to study the sermon at a deeper level, but I see that as a supplement for those who want to dive deeper, not something we could use as a church body.  I don't think I could solely use this with my community group or a bible study. I just can't imagine them all getting on the same page.  It's hard enough getting them to respond to email, much less interact with this tool.  If one person doesn't set it up or can't access or doesn't have a tablet or laptop, then you can't use it.

 

Posts 4625
RIP
Milford Charles Murray | Forum Activity | Replied: Tue, Jul 10 2012 9:41 AM

Jason rust:
Someone needs to put something together about how the entire things works together with some details.

That, my Friends, would be very helpful to me!                  *smile*                          Peace to all!                    ...    and   .....      Always Joy in the Lord!

Philippians 4:  4 Rejoice in the Lord always; again I will say, Rejoice. 5 Let your reasonableness be known to everyone. The Lord is at hand..........

Posts 1674
Paul Golder | Forum Activity | Replied: Tue, Jul 10 2012 10:29 AM

Am I the only one who has imagined this:

Coming to your Church!
Camp Faithlife Bible!
Only $295.00 per person, includes a one year subscription!

"As any translator will attest, a literal translation is no translation at all."

Posts 2
Ed Manning | Forum Activity | Replied: Sat, Jul 14 2012 5:24 PM

Agree with comments on subscription model.  The impression I get is that Logos users are supposed to recommend this to people as Logos Lite, but after a few years this is not cheap, and therefore I could not recommend it.

The android app gave me the ESV initially because I have the ESV on Logos, and then decided that I did not have a license (presumably because I would have to license the ESV separately for Faithlife, and therefore would not show it. That seems odd.

Not sure if the model is still out there, but I preferred the buy a ESV study bible and get Logos software free.  I think the model of buying the book, and then getting the online app either free or as paid for software is a better model for starting people onto Logos.

For tablets I can see that the apps work, but for the phone I still struggle with the screen size.

An hour later I still have not received FaithLife in Logos, even with forcing it to update.

I'm not sure who this is for?  People who like renting stuff...

More interested in a better way of getting Logos on my kindle....

Posts 99
John W | Forum Activity | Replied: Sat, Jul 14 2012 6:05 PM

Wow I just began using it today in my BS. I love it. It meets a need that was missing for assisted BS. Runge's note on Roman's 6 is awesome. Thanks so much for helping me once again to learn God's word that I might apply it.

A short video showing how it works and how it can help BS would have gotten me into it sooner. I kind of didn't get it til I started using it myself today-tho I saw the blog post on it.

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